Current Haoshoku Haki Users Upgrade

[KingTempest]

This is for specific users of Haoshoku Haki. No I'm not adding this to the Haki page cause it's not related to that, it's just a coincidental thing that stretches out mainly to Hao users and anyone else who scales.

First things first is that we already give Luffy some resistances caused by his willpower.

Minor Reactive Evolution (Through willpower, Luffy can endure abilities that harmed him prior, like Crocodile's poison)

Resistance to Madness Manipulation via Willpower (He was able to take in that of 100 shadows without any side effects with sheer willpower. It had been stated that if one have a weak willpower when taking in shadows, then they would have lost their mind and the power would be wasted. This is further supported when the Thriller Bark people have to ask Luffy if can control his mind or confirm that he still knows who he is)

We know this is actually a scaleable thing, based on Rayleigh's statement.

He says that the mastery of Haoshoku Haki is based on the level of willpower the user owns, and the only way for it to grow stronger is for the user's will to get stronger.
This is supported by the new Haki page which says this

The only way for this ability to grow is by strengthening the user's mind and body, and the potency of Haoshoku will grow alongside the user

Sourced by the databook

The conqueror's aura that will grow in power together with the user as he develops

Initial stage
Activated when the user unleashed strong emotions
The power of the conqueror type haki cannot be increased through training but it gets stronger only when the user's mind and body develops. In the initial stage, the user will not be aware of this ability and it is usually unleashed at the point of strong emotions.

Intermediate stage
Manipulated at will by the user
As the user's mental strength improves, he can control the haki! The user is even able to manipulate the timing of use, intensity and even the area of effect of the haki's power. This ability can be used with great effect in a battle against many.

Advanced stage
Using intimidation to cause others to lose consciousness
A true conqueror who possesses the power of the mind, body and spirit can release haki in all directions by merely intensifying his aura!! Such an aura is strong enough to shake ships and defeat seasoned fighters without even crossing swords?!!

So basically, Haoshoku users Intermediate and above have an innate resistance to Madness Manipulation. Questioning if Poison Manipulation would work as well, or potentially giving them Reactive Evolution just like Luffy.

Edit:
Resistance to Madness Manipulation via Willpower (As Rayleigh said that the mastery of Haoshoku is based on the willpower of the user, and inferior users like Pre-Timeskip Luffy could resist Madness Manipulation from the Kage Kage no Mi with pure willpower, they scale to his resistance)

 

[Eminiteable]

Good job, I agree with this

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

or potentially giving them Reactive Power Level just like Luffy, since he's not the only Haki user who has Reactive Power Level

Doesn't Haki already grant this in general?

• Reactive Power Level: Haki can become stronger in combat, especially against powerful foes[5].
  • Over the course of his battle with Charlotte Katakuri, Monkey D. Luffy was able to increase the proficiency of his Observation Haki to the point where he could see into the future[6].
  • Against Kaidou, Luffy was also able to increase the proficiency of his Conqueror's Haki to where he could infuse his attacks with it[7].
  • Rayleigh has said that fighting users with superior Haki allows one to temper and improve their Haki in the heat of battle[5].

 

[KingTempest]

Doesn't Haki already grant this in general?

That's just growth in Haki specifically. Like their Haki becoming more potent but their other stats stay the same.

And I just checked, I mixed up Reactive Evolution (which Luffy has) with Reactive Power level (which Luffy Zoro and Ace have), so I will be removing that from the OP

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

That's just growth in Haki specifically. Like their Haki becoming more potent but their other stats stay the same.

Yeah, and it should stay that way. Just because two Haki users happen to have a shared ability, doesn't mean it's due to Haki, unless there's evidence pointing towards that being the case.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

As for the rest of the OP, I find scaling Willpower a bit dubious and hard to quantify, but thankfully we do have a bit of a metric.
Several characters have actually matched Luffy's Haoshoku in clashes (Doffy, Kata, and Kaido come to mind), so them and people on their level should be fine to scale to these.

 

[WanderingGecko]

Very nice job
i'd have to agree on this one

 

[Damage3245]

Minor Reactive Evolution (Through willpower, Luffy can endure abilities that harmed him prior, like Crocodile's poison)

What is the actual justification for this ability? I can't remember Luffy becoming more resistant to poison through just his willpower.

 

[KingTempest]

As for the rest of the OP, I find scaling Willpower a bit dubious and hard to quantify, but thankfully we do have a bit of a metric.
Several characters have actually matched Luffy's Haoshoku in clashes (Doffy, Kata, and Kaido come to mind), so them and people on their level should be fine to scale to these.

For a list of those who matched his Haoshoku in pure Hao clashes

Chinjao, Doflamingo, Katakuri

For those who matched it in Hao infusion clashes

Kaido

Big Mom scales to Kaido's usage as they clashed with each other.

Rayleigh and Shanks scale above it for having superior willpower to Luffy via the 100k fishmen KO statement. WB scales to Shanks. Roger scales to that as well.

Oden and Ace would scale for having superior usage of Haoshoku than Luffy

 

[KingTempest]

What is the actual justification for this ability? I can't remember Luffy becoming more resistant to poison through just his willpower.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-luffys-intelligence-revision-abilities-addition.127133/

Luffy should also get Minor Reactive Evolution, as sometimes he can gain resistances to abilities without doing much.
Luffy got stabbed by Crocodile's poison hook and progressively got weaker, and weaker, and weaker, then via willpower he got back to where he could keep up again to harm him, dodge his attacks, and end up defeating him with a barrage attack, whereas he couldn't even stand before.
Yes, I know that gaining antibodies is a thing, but not this fast at all where you can be resistant to a poison that just put you on the ground in less than a minute.

 

[Damage3245]

Luffy should also get Minor Reactive Evolution, as sometimes he can gain resistances to abilities without doing much.
Luffy got stabbed by Crocodile's poison hook and progressively got weaker, and weaker, and weaker, then via willpower he got back to where he could keep up again to harm him, dodge his attacks, and end up defeating him with a barrage attack, whereas he couldn't even stand before.

I can see where you're coming from with it, but Luffy fighting on despite the damage he's suffered doesn't mean he's become resistant to what is damaging him. I don't see him getting Poison Resistance or Reactive Evolution from this just from continuing to fight.

The poison is affecting him, so he's not being resistant to the poison itself or evolving to deal with it, he's just fighting on despite that. A lot like how Kidd and Law can go from exhausted and seemingly unable to move to continuing to fight and surpassing their limits.

 

[KingTempest]

I can see where you're coming from with it, but Luffy fighting on despite the damage he's suffered doesn't mean he's become resistant to what is damaging him. I don't see him getting Poison Resistance or Reactive Evolution from this just from continuing to fight.

The poison is affecting him, so he's not being resistant to the poison itself or evolving to deal with it, he's just fighting on despite that. A lot like how Kidd and Law can go from exhausted and seemingly unable to move to continuing to fight and surpassing their limits.

Luffy getting completely dropped by poison and him going back to his original strength level despite prior being affected by poison says a lot giving him one or the other if not both.

Luffy powering through poison that can melt stone guarantees a resistance, and the showings for it guarantee the Reactive Evolution.

And this isn't the thread for disagreeing with his resistance either. An entirely different thread will have to be made.

 

[Damage3245]

And this isn't the thread for disagreeing with his resistance either. An entirely different thread will have to be made.

Well, I might have to do that then, but for now on this thread I disagree with scaling that to anybody else. I don't see this being a explicit product of his willpower alone and therefore something applicable to everyone else with comparable Conqueror's Haki.

 

[Ryuga21]

I agree about King Haki users scaling the same mental resistances; at the very least, superior users should be pontencially equivalent to everything that weaker users can show through will and mind. Because it is implied in the series that exists is a hierarchy between soul, spirit (mental strength) and haki in general.

 

[KingTempest]

Madness Manip resistance hasn’t been contended yet

 

[Damage3245]

Madness Manip resistance hasn’t been contended yet

That's fine.

It's the other bit that concerns me at the moment.

 

[KingTempest]

That's fine.

It's the other bit that concerns me at the moment.

Ok that’s fair then

 

[Ryuga21]

bump

 

[KingTempest]

Edit:
Resistance to Madness Manipulation via Willpower (As Rayleigh said that the mastery of Haoshoku is based on the willpower of the user, and inferior users like Pre-Timeskip Luffy could resist Madness Manipulation from the Kage Kage no Mi with pure willpower, they scale to his resistance)

Is this fine to add?

 

[KobsterHope07]

I have no problem with that

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Resistance to Madness Manipulation via Willpower (As Rayleigh said that the mastery of Haoshoku is based on the willpower of the user, and inferior users like Pre-Timeskip Luffy could resist Madness Manipulation from the Kage Kage no Mi with pure willpower, they scale to his resistance)

I agree this

or potentially giving them Reactive Evolution just like Luffy.

And agree with this as well

 

[KingTempest]

Finished, closing. Thank you