CRT on Reinhard and Reid Astrea's speed feat

[Starmegalo]

In 10-year anniversary QA, we learned that Reinhard's max speed is his coming back from the moon. It seems he did not hold back on that one, nor him doing that would make sense.

Re: Zero 10th Anniversary Space Q&A Session by the Author – Summary Translation | Witch Cult Translations

witchculttranslation.com

The 56th question asks about the fastest speed Reinhard can reach.

A: I think at least up to the speed of sound. He can probably go faster than that. He is accused by Subaru of going to the moon, kicking off the surface, and coming back, so it’s the speed of going to the moon and coming back in minutes like during the fight.

It is probably not correct to use our moon as an example(it's an isekai story) so I do not know what to make of it so I post here. One other thing is, the author doesn't comfortably say that he is FTL so it made me wonder if the whole thing with Jiwald feat from Reid is just flowery words. There is a part in EX novels or side stories with Wilhelm where this guy called Grim did react to Jiwald. When I remembered that I checked his page in vs battle wiki and it seems it's not counted since it's inconsistent. ( I agree with this).

For the sake of it. I calculated the moon feat with our moon(I am not sure if this is how it's supposed to be done) and Reinhard is somewhere between Massively Hypersonic+(If it was before 20 minutes) or Massively Hypersonic if it's 20+ minutes. I am not sure how long it take for him to come back, I do not remember very well if there is any hint of how long it took.

I want to end by saying that I really don't see how Jiwald is FTL once again. It really surprised me to see that counting as an FTL feat. This is my first time posting here and I hope I didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Jiwald is a heat ray which moves in a straight line, at the speed of light. This isn't flowery language, the Ex Characters already have notes that we don't consider it consistent.

A character's travel speed doesn't necessarily equal their combat speed. Being able to move from point in to point b, isn't the same as fighting at a certain speed.

Their profiles will eventually reflect that ie MHS travel speed, FTL combat speed.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Gluttony IF mentions that Reinhard's travel speed is the same as Hell's Snipe's needle when he chased it in order to save Felt:

Spoiler: Reinhard racing Hell's Snipe

A trace of bewilderment clouded Reinhardt’s eyes just after he heard Subaru’s proclamation. Reinhardt was trying to settle things here right now. In fact, if Reinhardt wanted to do so, Subaru was in a position where he could close the distance with a single step and cut him down in an instant. Even if Shaula made a motion to defend him, it wouldn’t really change the outcome. But despite that, Subaru could still say―― ???:『Assuming Felt managed to take shelter in all of this, I think she’d be somewhere at the edge of the city.』 ――And turning towards the direction pointed out by the bald-headed giant, Shaula fired a flash of white light towards there. 「――――」 In an instant, Reinhardt held his breath and flew backwards, following after the soaring blow of light at the exact same speed as it. He hadn’t done that to kill Subaru, who stood in front of him, but rather to rush towards the faraway building where Reinhardt’s master―― Felt had hidden after having survived the flood, so he could knock down that flash of white light. ???:『If you keep something important nearby, then of course, that’s the same as exposing your weak points. The same thing applies to the『Sword Saint』Reinhardt, doooooesn’t it?』 Roswaal, who had given this suggestion let a wicked grin form on his face, and basked in his satisfaction in having outwitted the『Sword Saint.』Giving him a look from the side, Subaru took a short breath, and said.

In Arc 6, Hell's Snipe was described as moving at the speed of light:

Spoiler: Infinite Hell's Snipe

Shaula replied to Subaru’s shout with a dazzling voice, whilst he covered his eyes with his arm to protect them from the sand. What she did with the same energy, was a fantasy difficult to believe in its own way. For about the balcony’s width, countless gunports had been deployed horizontally that had been generated in the air. Gunports would be a slight bit of exaggeration, but there were no other words befitting it that he could think of. Gunports, muzzles, shooting portalsーー in any case, they were openings for firing something for sure. The white, great gunports, which had been deployed through forming something akin to a magic square in the air, their aims were tilted diagonally towards the ground. Andーー, Shaula: “ーーInfinitied Hells Snipe!!” Subaru: “What the, that’s so cool!!” Upon Shaula’s casting shout, the white gunports glimmered brilliantly. The sound of shattering glass then repeatedly echoed through the sky of the sands, crushing Subaru’s howl. At the same time, the gunports lost their form and dissolved into the atmosphere. This was the true identity of the high-pitched sound that had welcomed Subaru and the others upon their arrival at the balcony earlier. And, there was only one reason why Shaula was utilising them. ーーFiring bombardments as much as possible, the coronas approached the ground with the speed of light.

If Hell's Snipe is not literally light speed, it would be simpler to calc it instead of make guesses about the moon.

Otherwise, Re:Zero has a flat world rather than a spherical planet, so maybe we can come up with an approximation for the moon from that.

Official map from a mobile game:

One of the fan-created maps:

The author compared Reinhard's strength to Godzilla, and when asked how long it would take Reinhard to destroy the world, he said the same amount of time it would take Godzilla to destroy Eurasia. So we can approximate the size of Re:Zero's world to Eurasia.

---

If the light speed description aren't hyperboles, wouldn't this upgrade the mid tiers?

Carol managed to dodge Jiwald, Grimm managed to react to Al Jiwald and block it with his shield.

Spoiler: Carol and Grimm reacting to Jiwald

“Base creature. Do not make light of the sword technique of Remendes, my house, which serves the Sword Saints,” Carol said sharply. She raised her sword and, with a light-footed leap, jumped into the air, throwing herself at the witch. Sphinx met this sudden, direct assault with a glowing finger. “A futile death indeed. You would have required innovation to reach me.” The beam lanced out. Carol, hanging in midair and with no wings to fly, could not avoid it. Surely she would be pierced by the light and turned into smoldering ash. And yet she wasn’t. “Hrm?” “I told you, don’t underestimate the Remendes family!” Carol said to the surprised witch, having neatly dodged her attack. Though she had been in midflight, Carol had kicked off of thin air to accelerate herself upward. Then she came down with a crescent strike, cleaving the witch’s undefended left arm in half

Roswaal moved in, looking to crush the witch’s head with another punch before she could do anything. But Sphinx was faster, pulling off her robe with her remaining arm. The cloth tore away with a soft rip, and there beneath, on the girl’s white, exposed skin, was a purple design. The same one that had been drawn on Valga. “Al Ziwald.” She intoned the magic for the ultimate form of Ziwald, her death ray. The beam that had previously come only from the tip of her finger now burst from her entire palm. It was as if her hand was reaching out to annihilate everything in its path. The destructive ray speared diagonally across the great hall, and death drew nearer by the instant. Even Roswaal would be hard-pressed to dodge it; she found herself hardly able to speak with astonishment. Similarly silent was the young man who brought up his shield and met the beam head-on. [...] Grimm threw himself between Roswaal and the beam of light an instant before it annihilated her. “—” He hadn’t been sure he would win or even survive. Until now, neither victory nor survival had influenced Grimm’s life as bad luck had, so what came of his blocking the light with his shield was also a gift of his “bad luck.” “With a mere shield…” This was not like stopping any normal attack. This was the light that had decimated the castle’s great hall and all but evaporated the royal guards who now lay dead in the corridor. It could pierce armor; it should certainly have been able to do the same to a shield.

The novel even comes with art of Grimm blocking Al Jiwald.

In Gluttony IF, Garfiel is able to parry Hell's Snipe, but only when it is fired from far away at the horizon:

Spoiler: Garfield parrying a Hell's Snipe barrage

And immediately afterwards, a flash of light pierced through straight in front of Otto, who had fallen onto his backside on the rooftop, at tremendous speed, faster than the eye could see. Otto:「GHAAAAAAAAAAA!」 For a moment, Otto’s entire body was engulfed by burning pain from the light which had slightly grazed his chest. There wasn’t any bleeding. But, there was a scorch mark on his shirt, and his skin underneath it had been charred. The true form of the white light of now was pure, intense heat. And, that white light was―― Garfiel:「RRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAA――!!」 Giving a howl of rage, Garfiel forcibly parried away each one of those white light rays, those white rays of death, that hurtled towards them at lightning fast speed. Wielding the silver shields fitted on his arms, Garfiel challenged that overwhelming force of incredible speed head on. A hyper-dimensional battle which Otto could not keep up with had commenced. Nevertheless, he did have a decent idea about what was happening. Otto:「Where did it come from……」 Whilst he endured his pain, Otto looked around his surroundings and concentrated on finding where the flashes of white had been fired from. It was likely that the culprit who had fired those attacks at Otto and Garfiel was also the culprit who had opened the floodgates. Of course, the enemy that came to his mind was them being a Witch Cultist―― Otto:「――hk, from all the way over there!?」 Far, far away, at the edge of his sight, one of the floodgate’s control towers came into view―― A flash of light could be seen from where Otto and Garfiel were, coming from the top of the tower which stood almost on the opposite side of the city. Immediately after he thought he’d seen that flicker, the light instantly came surging to where they were. Somehow, Garfiel was still fending them off right now, but―― Garfiel:「THINGS ARE GONNA KEEP GETTIN’ WORSE! BROTTO, FIND A PLACE TO HIDE! MY AMAZIN’ SELF’S GONNA BEAT THE SHIT OUTTA THIS BASTARD!」 Otto:「GARFIEL! WILL YOU BE OKAY IF YOU GET CLOSER!?」 Though Garfiel roared that out, by no means was what he was saying a good idea in this situation. The speed at which the approaching rays of white light moved at was completely out of the ordinary; the distance which separated them from their opponent was such that Garfiel was only barely able to mount a defence against them. If he got closer, the time he would have to deal with the rays of light would decrease respectively. Even the difference of an augenblick would be fatal in a hyper-dimensional battle. Garfiel:「EITHER WAY, THERE’S NO OTHER WAY! IT’S JUS’ US TWO! ISN’ THAT RIGHT!?」 Otto:「――. You’re right. GARFIEL!」 Garfiel:「HYYYAAAAH!!」 Repeating what Otto had said before, Garfiel took a mighty step forward and leapt up. Making use of a building which could barely be classed as a foothold in the city still submerged by the flood, Garfiel zealously drove forward, and determinedly made his way towards the city’s control tower where the white flashes of light had been coming from. Garfiel:「GRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa――!!」 One shot after another, Garfiel braced himself and somehow managed to keep ahold of his footing whilst the shock of each impact racked his body as if paralysing him to the bone. The opponent was formidable. In addition to their attacks’ pinpoint accuracy from so far away, the sheer amount of mana that they put into these potent attacks without missing a beat, was far from normal. If he considered his position where he had kept his distance from the start, it was a terribly favourable situation for his opponent.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Hell Snipe being light speed is actually a mistranslation, that came up years ago in a debate somewhere on here.

The size of Re Zero's world and all that is honestly too speculative to use right now, the best we can do imo is lowball using the distance between the Earth and Moon for Reinhard feat, cause we don't know what is going on with the world, like we weren't even shown directly Reinhard on the Moon, so even with an anime, i don't think we will get visuals to confirm anything.

That "official" map is from a non canon source if i remember correctly, though Tappei might have been involved. That said the size of the world itself i don't think really tells us much about it's relation to its moon.

Mid tiers have many anti-feats for being lightspeed, that's why there are notes everywhere on their profiles.

 

[Starmegalo]

Jiwald is a heat ray which moves in a straight line, at the speed of light. This isn't flowery language, the Ex Characters already have notes that we don't consider it consistent.

A character's travel speed doesn't necessarily equal their combat speed. Being able to move from point in to point b, isn't the same as fighting at a certain speed.

Their profiles will eventually reflect that ie MHS travel speed, FTL combat speed.

Why EX characters aren't considered consistent instead of just accepting that Jiwald is no light-speed attack? That seems more logical to me because...well, Jiwald is shown to be quite reachable by characters without Light speed combat reaction.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Why EX characters aren't considered consistent instead of just accepting that Jiwald is no light-speed attack? That seems more logical to me because...well, Jiwald is shown to be quite reachable by characters without Light speed combat reaction.

Firstly these scenes haven't been animated and i personally interpreted this scene as Carol and gang looking at where Sphinxs hand was pointed towards and dodging last second which can be done by characters who are superior to the caster in speed but not her actual attacks, secondly notice how they dodge or block the attack rather than trying to slice it like Reid did? It could very well be something like that because i do remember somebody using this method, maybe Wilhelm to predict the attack before it happened.

In Reid or Reins case they are so vastly above Jiwald in pure speed that they can casually cut multiple of such attacks which showcases the ovwrall gap between them. Of course the jump from moon thing is practically impossible to calculate unlese S3 shows us exactly hoe big the rz world is, hopefully they show us the world Saitama style in which case we woupd have a definite answer as to what their travel speed truly is

 

[Starmegalo]

Firstly these scenes haven't been animated and i personally interpreted this scene as Carol and gang looking at where Sphinxs hand was pointed towards and dodging last second which can be done by characters who are superior to the caster in speed but not her actual attacks, secondly notice how they dodge or block the attack rather than trying to slice it like Reid did? It could very well be something like that because i do remember somebody using this method, maybe Wilhelm to predict the attack before it happened.

In Reid or Reins case they are so vastly above Jiwald in pure speed that they can casually cut multiple of such attacks which showcases the ovwrall gap between them. Of course the jump from moon thing is practically impossible to calculate unlese S3 shows us exactly hoe big the rz world is, hopefully they show us the world Saitama style in which case we woupd have a definite answer as to what their travel speed truly is

Again...there is nothing showing if they reacted to hand gestures or anything. I doubt it would help if Jiwald was truly an FTL attack. Which means Jiwald isn't FTL.

If Jiwald isn't FTL then it's obvious why Reid can slash multiple of them...to begin with, Reid and Reinhard's having the giant difference between that one guy who blocked it doesn't make them FTL.

This post is about that. Their speed should change to something lower with more based evidence and not this conflicting inconsistent thing.

I am new at here so I won't just talk about what Reid's speed should be labeled as, I am just pointing out the obvious with the Jiwald. There are many things we don't know about Reid anyway since he is not an enemy Subaru defeated after finding things about him. We know that author's statement is that Subaru can beat anyone by simply using tricks if it's not Reinhard. Not that I agree with the magic circle from the sword ballad not only cuts the connection with Od Laguna but also destroys the accumulation gained with DP's, Roswaal saw that so it should've been at Subaru's disposal in Pride IF.

In any case, there are many unknowns with Reid in general and obvious inconsistency in the speed feat so it should be changed.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Again...there is nothing showing if they reacted to hand gestures or anything. I doubt it would help if Jiwald was truly an FTL attack. Which means Jiwald isn't FTL.

If Jiwald isn't FTL then it's obvious why Reid can slash multiple of them...to begin with, Reid and Reinhard's having the giant difference between that one guy who blocked it doesn't make them FTL.

This post is about that. Their speed should change to something lower with more based evidence and not this conflicting inconsistent thing.

I am new at here so I won't just talk about what Reid's speed should be labeled as, I am just pointing out the obvious with the Jiwald. There are many things we don't know about Reid anyway since he is not an enemy Subaru defeated after finding things about him. We know that author's statement is that Subaru can beat anyone by simply using tricks if it's not Reinhard. Not that I agree with the magic circle from the sword ballad not only cuts the connection with Od Laguna but also destroys the accumulation gained with DP's, Roswaal saw that so it should've been at Subaru's disposal in Pride IF.

In any case, there are many unknowns with Reid in general and obvious inconsistency in the speed feat so it should be changed.

1. Jiwald isnt FTL and nobody said that, its SoL due to being literal heat ray. Reid is FTL for cutting down multiple of them. The Ex novels can very well be judged as PiS. You also obviously underestimate the difference between Reid and the rest of the gang. To put it in perspective Ram at her current power without losing any shackles, can keep wilhelm and Julius engaged for a couple of second before collapsing. Ram in her Oni God form is among the strongest characters, according to tappei she alongside the top 5 will get beheaded instantly aside from Reinhard obviously. But thats how much of a difference it is to the point that nobody aside from the god toers can deal with the god tiers. Even the high tiers are fodder compared to them
2. It does, Grimm used a massive shield bigger than a human to cover jimself and Roswaal. He could have simply seen her pointing at them and came there before the shot. As i said its a very real possibility that they were aim dodging. In Reids case, he CUT down the Jiwalds, there is a massive difference between thpse 2. Even i could get a massive shield and cover myself and another guy up if i see someone with a gun pointed at us.
4.its simply an if story Tappei write nothiny to get too serious about, plus its likely that there will be an official LN sometime down the line so we can look forward to that being the official storyline
5. I dont see any inconsistency

 

[Starmegalo]

I meant that Jiwald is Light speed. Correction.

But at this point, you are just taking one instance where it's called light speed even though there are more characters WHO ISN'T LIGHT SPEED reacting towards that very beam. You are assuming too much by talking about him reacting to the finger-pointing or something. There are 2 characters clearly responding to it, instead of thinking that perhaps Jiwald isn't Speed of Light, you say that it's plot-induced stupidity in two instances.

I do not underestimate how strong Reid is even though I'm afraid I have to disagree with him being able to cut Regulus even with that QA. But that's not the point.

Point is, Reid being able to easily beating camp doesn't give him Light speed feats. Simple as that.

And how can you say PiS and then there is no inconsistency? Doesn't make sense.

In any case, I do invite you to look objectively without baseless speculation for whatever reason. Those 2 characters reacting is a reality. I will look even more into the lines later, but for now, I am waiting for a real argument on why Reid is FTL.

1. Jiwald isnt FTL and nobody said that, its SoL due to being literal heat ray. Reid is FTL for cutting down multiple of them. The Ex novels can very well be judged as PiS. You also obviously underestimate the difference between Reid and the rest of the gang. To put it in perspective Ram at her current power without losing any shackles, can keep wilhelm and Julius engaged for a couple of second before collapsing. Ram in her Oni God form is among the strongest characters, according to tappei she alongside the top 5 will get beheaded instantly aside from Reinhard obviously. But thats how much of a difference it is to the point that nobody aside from the god toers can deal with the god tiers. Even the high tiers are fodder compared to them
2. It does, Grimm used a massive shield bigger than a human to cover jimself and Roswaal. He could have simply seen her pointing at them and came there before the shot. As i said its a very real possibility that they were aim dodging. In Reids case, he CUT down the Jiwalds, there is a massive difference between thpse 2. Even i could get a massive shield and cover myself and another guy up if i see someone with a gun pointed at us.
4.its simply an if story Tappei write nothiny to get too serious about, plus its likely that there will be an official LN sometime down the line so we can look forward to that being the official storyline
5. I dont see any inconsistency

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I meant that Jiwald is Light speed. Correction.

But at this point, you are just taking one instance where it's called light speed even though there are more characters WHO ISN'T LIGHT SPEED reacting towards that very beam. You are assuming too much by talking about him reacting to the finger-pointing or something. There are 2 characters clearly responding to it, instead of thinking that perhaps Jiwald isn't Speed of Light, you say that it's plot-induced stupidity in two instances.

I do not underestimate how strong Reid is even though I'm afraid I have to disagree with him being able to cut Regulus even with that QA. But that's not the point.

Point is, Reid being able to easily beating camp doesn't give him Light speed feats. Simple as that.

And how can you say PiS and then there is no inconsistency? Doesn't make sense.

In any case, I do invite you to look objectively without baseless speculation for whatever reason. Those 2 characters reacting is a reality. I will look even more into the lines later, but for now, I am waiting for a real argument on why Reid is FTL.

You can be slower than light and still react to it, that just pushes them to relavistic which also wouldnt break the consistencý. There are just too many ways to interpret this to be sure of one thing or another, aim dodging is a very real possibility. Even an athlete can perform that, it would be pretty simple for somebdoy as skilled as those 2 are.

I am saying you can interpret this in multiole ways where it isnt an inconsistency aside from simply reducing Jiwalds speed

 

[Starmegalo]

You can be slower than light and still react to it, that just pushes them to relavistic which also wouldnt break the consistencý. There are just too many ways to interpret this to be sure of one thing or another, aim dodging is a very real possibility. Even an athlete can perform that, it would be pretty simple for somebdoy as skilled as those 2 are.

I am saying you can interpret this in multiole ways where it isnt an inconsistency aside from simply reducing Jiwalds speed

“You sur-surprise me. I never—cough!—expected to be brought so low…” Sphinx sat up, still coughing up blood. Her face had gone pale, and she should not have been able to move. But she could still evoke an unspeakable terror. “I’m glad it was…my left arm you cut off…” Roswaal moved in, looking to crush the witch’s head with another punch before she could do anything. But Sphinx was faster, pulling off her robe with her remaining arm. The cloth tore away with a soft rip, and there beneath, on the girl’s white, exposed skin, was a purple design. The same one that had been drawn on Valga. “Al Ziwald.” She intoned the magic for the ultimate form of Ziwald, her death ray. The beam that had previously come only from the tip of her finger now burst from her entire palm. It was as if her hand was reaching out to annihilate everything in its path. The destructive ray speared diagonally across the great hall, and death drew nearer by the instant. Even Roswaal would be hard-pressed to dodge it;

she found herself hardly able to speak with astonishment. Similarly silent was the young man who brought up his shield and met the beam head-on.


Does this look like Light speed to you? Or that Sphinx made it so obvious that Grimm could see that she was going to attack? Everything here happens in an instance where she is about to die but happens to be a little faster than Roswaal.

Grimm reacts to the beam. Which makes it so that it cannot possibly be light speed.

And Jiwald here is Al Jiwald unlike what Edna uses against Reid. If you were to assume this one is faster then it makes it even more obvious that Jiwald is no light speed attack. To begin with, it doesn't make sense for that to be that fast because the Edna herself isn't that strong as a spirit.

You assume too much when there is no statement on how Grimm blocked it and it looks like he REACTED it.

Narration also makes it sound like it's not impossible for Roswaal to dodge it. If it was light speed then this wouldn't be said.

And Grimm wasn't in front of the Roswaal when beam was still travelling. The destructive ray speared diagonally across the great hall, and death drew nearer by the instant. Even Roswaal would be hard-pressed to dodge it;

As you can see. Grimm isn't there while the beam still travels.

This is another case of light beams being fast as any other spell and not light speed. Common in fiction.

Hell Snipe being light speed is actually a mistranslation, that came up years ago in a debate somewhere on here.

The size of Re Zero's world and all that is honestly too speculative to use right now, the best we can do imo is lowball using the distance between the Earth and Moon for Reinhard feat, cause we don't know what is going on with the world, like we weren't even shown directly Reinhard on the Moon, so even with an anime, i don't think we will get visuals to confirm anything.

That "official" map is from a non canon source if i remember correctly, though Tappei might have been involved. That said the size of the world itself i don't think really tells us much about it's relation to its moon.

Mid tiers have many anti-feats for being lightspeed, that's why there are notes everywhere on their profiles.

Is this enough proof? I do not know how this stuff works but the things above is from EX 2 and obviously show Grimm reacting to it and not just seeing Sphinx waiting with hand sign before attacking.

 

[SubaruN2000]

I dont see what the problem here is. Why should we downgrade Jiwalds speed from SoL (when they are supposed to be that fast) just because other characters have dodged it when there have been plenty of instances of characters in Re:Zero performing (inconsistent) PIS speed feats. Like Subaru reacting to and "fighting" against Elsa and Regulus. By this logic we should downgrade Elsa, Regulus, Reinhard and a bunch of other characters speed to human level.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

“You sur-surprise me. I never—cough!—expected to be brought so low…” Sphinx sat up, still coughing up blood. Her face had gone pale, and she should not have been able to move. But she could still evoke an unspeakable terror. “I’m glad it was…my left arm you cut off…” Roswaal moved in, looking to crush the witch’s head with another punch before she could do anything. But Sphinx was faster, pulling off her robe with her remaining arm. The cloth tore away with a soft rip, and there beneath, on the girl’s white, exposed skin, was a purple design. The same one that had been drawn on Valga. “Al Ziwald.” She intoned the magic for the ultimate form of Ziwald, her death ray. The beam that had previously come only from the tip of her finger now burst from her entire palm. It was as if her hand was reaching out to annihilate everything in its path. The destructive ray speared diagonally across the great hall, and death drew nearer by the instant. Even Roswaal would be hard-pressed to dodge it;

she found herself hardly able to speak with astonishment. Similarly silent was the young man who brought up his shield and met the beam head-on.


Does this look like Light speed to you? Or that Sphinx made it so obvious that Grimm could see that she was going to attack? Everything here happens in an instance where she is about to die but happens to be a little faster than Roswaal.

Grimm reacts to the beam. Which makes it so that it cannot possibly be light speed.

And Jiwald here is Al Jiwald unlike what Edna uses against Reid. If you were to assume this one is faster then it makes it even more obvious that Jiwald is no light speed attack. To begin with, it doesn't make sense for that to be that fast because the Edna herself isn't that strong as a spirit.

You assume too much when there is no statement on how Grimm blocked it and it looks like he REACTED it.

Narration also makes it sound like it's not impossible for Roswaal to dodge it. If it was light speed then this wouldn't be said.

And Grimm wasn't in front of the Roswaal when beam was still travelling. The destructive ray speared diagonally across the great hall, and death drew nearer by the instant. Even Roswaal would be hard-pressed to dodge it;

As you can see. Grimm isn't there while the beam still travels.

This is another case of light beams being fast as any other spell and not light speed. Common in fiction.



Is this enough proof? I do not know how this stuff works but the things above is from EX 2 and obviously show Grimm reacting to it and not just seeing Sphinx waiting with hand sign before attacking.

The comment above plus the fact that dodging SoL attacks or reacting to it just makes you relavistic not FTL

 

[Starmegalo]

I dont see what the problem here is. Why should we downgrade Jiwalds speed from SoL (when they are supposed to be that fast) just because other characters have dodged it when there have been plenty of instances of characters in Re:Zero performing (inconsistent) PIS speed feats. Like Subaru reacting to and "fighting" against Elsa and Regulus. By this logic we should downgrade Elsa, Regulus, Reinhard and a bunch of other characters speed to human level.

The reason I want a downgrade because Reid and Reinhard is told to be FTL in that one page for reacting many normal Jiwalds and Reinhard scaling at least to his speed.

They are not FTL. That's why I want an update. Idk what speed you will put. I am just saying it's not FTL like their page says.

The comment above plus the fact that dodging SoL attacks or reacting to it just makes you relavistic not FTL

Again. Reid is said to be FTL in his page because of slashing Jiwalds...not to mention he probably has instinctual reaction and precognition etc. which doesn't help with his speed stat.

My argument is that they are not SoL or FTL.

You guys can decide what speed they are at. All I say that their speed is lower than their page states.

 

[SubaruN2000]

They are not FTL. That's why I want an update. Idk what speed you will put. I am just saying it's not FTL like their page says.

Jiwald is very clearly stated to be SoL though...

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I know of anti-feats that makes the mid-tiers a lot slower than the top-tiers.
But are there anti-feats that goes against mid-tiers being relativistic in combat?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Ex Novel characters were relativistic till this thread.

Even the person who was arguing for the downgrade acknowledge that Jiwald does meet the requirements for being legit light speed; like traveling in a straight line, reflecting and being stated to be a heat ray,

They just wanted to scrap everything due to inconsistencies with the mid tiers being that fast, which i thought later on went too far.

Anti-feats they mentioned being: Wilhelm struggling against 40 fodder knights in EX 3, an Earth Snake giving Wilhelm trouble, the same species which shows up and confronts the cast in arc 6, and also if i remember right is also what Subaru and Garfiel went and fought after arc 4 events, and Wilhelm almost dying against 300 fodder demi humans.

Ex Novel cast being that stupidly faster than the main cast, really makes no sense, and the main cast has so many supersonic statements.

Re Zero has some pis when it comes to powerscaling, makes things much more murky. It's a brilliant story, but it's not perfect, cough cough Subaru reacting to Elsa faster than Reinhard.