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Basically humans have insane blunt-force durability feats but piercing damage and organ damage can easily screw them over, like say, piercing damage from bullets and knives.
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CRT for potentially upgrading Superhuman Physical Characteristics
- Thread starter H3110l12345I20
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Yeah I'll definitely need a picture of that
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Yeah, it had a picture too, I might have to look for the book later.
H3110l12345I20
He/Him- 5,104
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Ok, now to link dump a couple of sources on bears towards humans. At this point, we already have enough feats to show that ordinary people don't easily survive Wall level attacks or any equivalent without any fatal injuries. Feats like falling from terminal velocity isn't survivable unless if you reduce the force/energy from getting hit to the ground.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teenager-mauled-death-polar-bear-3823639 (Archived)
Attributed source(s): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America (Archived) (Gave verifiable sources, but may not be reliable itself.)(Due to copyright, these sources will not be archived.)
https://archive.org/details/greatbearalmanac0000brow/page/250/mode/2up
https://web.archive.org/web/20170127203845/https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/es/species/mammals/grizzly/board of review report Stewart 2014 final.pdf
Potential Outlier: https://www.healthline.com/health/hysterical-strength#in-the-news (Archived)
https://web.archive.org/web/2007092...com/archives/60217/news/nunavut/60217_03.html (Archived) (Although a woman in Ivujivik did manage to beat a Polar Bear in a fight, in character Polar Bears typically are curious & stay away from humans (https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(99)70848-3/pdf (Archived)).)
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H3110l12345I20
He/Him- 5,104
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On the other hand, there's feats of humans on hysterical strength, using (almost) 100% strength to lift vehicles to save others (although most likely lifting from the side & redirecting the weight to the non lifted side rather than lift the vehicle off the ground) overpowering a stronger human, & (outlier) fighting a Polar Bear. I would like to hear the elaboration of how you would tier these feats from everyone that's reading this.
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Yeah we tried those years back, all got rejected due to humans not actually fisticuffing the bears and using weapons and stuff to go toe-to-toe.
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I think the main issue is that AP and durability in real life isn't really such a simple linear scale like our wiki's system makes it to be. If you take like ramming with full speed the average Joe is 9-C. But if you take a 9-C baseball bat swing to the head you're probably dying.
H3110l12345I20
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- #48
So... should superhuman durability be Street level+, or Wall level? This dude survived a car crash & most fatal car crashes are under 40 mph. If only the person was going under 40 mph, this gives us 306802.8488 J for the person + car & 9.912300175 KJ for the person only. John Ferraro has a skull almost 3 times thicker than the average man's skull (Archived)(wikipedia's article on him did say 2.3 times, but the reference was a dead link), regularly (having people) break(ing) hard things above his head.
For prehistoric hunter-gatherers, they survived blows to the head from clubs, possible clay projectiles to the head from slings (I did a possible calculation on projectiles of slings from a pdf, if you're interested. I'm not sure about the calculation's existence), & had a modern build that made them comparable to modern athletes.
H3110l12345I20
He/Him- 5,104
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- #49
H3110l12345I20
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I mean, some weak spots/pressure points take only a punch to have significant effects on the person, others take a 9-C attack.
H3110l12345I20
He/Him- 5,104
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- #51
Where's the calculation for full speed rams/tackles?
H3110l12345I20
He/Him- 5,104
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- #52
& to tip it off, we also have vital organs.
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H3110l12345I20
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Do we add in stuff like physical combat speed & reaction speed to the potential changes?
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Usually we base speed on a person's ability to move around the place (AKA travel and movement speed), not on how fast they can fight, kick or even react to things. Because at that point they leave the realm of the starting point of superhuman and reach Subsonic speeds as a whole.
H3110l12345I20
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- #56
That will be considered, although I've asked this question, like 3 times already but I'll wait as long as a response: So... should superhuman durability be Street level+, or Wall level?
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I agree with Spinosaurus here.
H3110l12345I20
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I mean, most of the strongest stuff an ordinary person can do is Street level+, so I guess I'll lean towards that area due to dense bones. So far:
- Speed: Faster than 12.34 m/s. (Faster than Usain Bolt & other 100 meter Olympic sprinters in travel speed)
- Lifting Strength: Over 501 kg (Can deadlift more than Olympic Weightlifters.)
- Striking Strength: At least Street Class+ (Attacks are more than tens of thousands of joules (x>10,000 J), stronger than peak humans in real life.)
- Durability: At least Street level+ (Can withstand more force/energy than even the most densest bones & skulls can't handle, but can still be killed by things like spears, high-caliber rounds, etc.)
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I'm not going to deny Spinosaurus, I've researched into human weak spots/pressure points & vital organs. Moves like a punch to the liver/neck will definitely defeat the human. Kicks & stomps can break bones, hit shins, & severely injure a person if they got to the head.
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H3110l12345I20
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Who's going to agree/disagree on the potential changes? This is a CRT.
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I think the baseline for Superhuman lifting strength and speed are otherwise unchanged thus far; being stronger and faster than the strongest and fastest man on earth is the reasonable bench mark for Superhuman requirements. But I otherwise agree with Spinosaurus for the AP and Durability stuff since they tend to be very nonlinear IRL.
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I think I called a majority of them here AFAIK, but uh, they don't seem to be responding yet.
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Okay. I will try as well.
@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @DMUA @Damage3245 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @KieranH10 @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @Amelia_Lonelyheart @DragonGamerZ913 @M3X @AbaddonTheDisappointment
Would you be willing to help out here please?
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Disagree with street level and/or class. If anything, we should move the athletic human level or peak human to these values. It's like a human having a wall level feat, we'd move the value of peka human idk, to this "wall level" feat. This means if everything here gets accepted we need to change our AP chart.
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I believe tackling shouldn't be taken into account to decide the upper limits of a human, the energy is dispersed over a large area and the calc itself might have inaccuracies as it was measured with a physical stopwatch.
I doubt there is a single person whose striking strength exceeds 3 thousand joules even in the best scenarios, so there is still plenty of room in Street level to be considered "superhuman".
And some people might straight up be actually superhuman thanks to a genetic mutation, just like that person whose bones were 8 times denser than the average.
I doubt there is a single person whose striking strength exceeds 3 thousand joules even in the best scenarios, so there is still plenty of room in Street level to be considered "superhuman".
And some people might straight up be actually superhuman thanks to a genetic mutation, just like that person whose bones were 8 times denser than the average.
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H3110l12345I20
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- #70
The Superhuman Physical Characteristics article stated, "The levels of strength, speed or stamina significantly exceed what is theoretically feasible for a regular person." This could be interpreted as having more physical characteristics than regular people, you could say that any person in their lifetimes could've been peak human, so that's why I drew the border there.
I mean, my opinion on the source for athlete level is that athletes can shoot sports projectiles/objects far, but has no one considered their bodily striking strength. Anyone could kick/stomp & exceed Athlete level+.
The energy/force it would take to break these denser bones is unknown but is at least Street level+. Considering that bones break at 9920 J at a 50 degree angle, I slapped a "Can withstand more force/energy than even..." for that reason. In general, there's plenty of ways to build bone density. There's many reasons for why I considered Wall level durability as an upgrade for SPC. Little to no people survive terminal velocity at concrete at full speed, savage attacks from big animals, getting crushed/trampled by unlivable amounts of weight exerted on them, etc.
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H3110l12345I20
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I've made a blog post concerning different types of potential changes (including the original), linking/refing it to sources that I'll archive in the Wayback Machine, Archive.vn &/or Ghostarchive. After this message I'll do knives & bullets next.
Question: How were the original standards on the SPC page as of now determined & why?
H3110l12345I20
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Blog post has been completed with reliable sources & has been archived 3 times.
Edit: Ref errors have been fixed as of now.
Edit: Ref errors have been fixed as of now.
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H3110l12345I20
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The original description has been updated to include the original, analyzed & current proposal.
H3110l12345I20
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The original description has been updated to include human attacks in alphabetical order. Human Bites will be coming soon
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I think it looks good.
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Yeah hippos are basically the scariest animal around.
H3110l12345I20
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- #77
Thank you for the feedback! Although, we're at this point, slightly higher from where we started.
We do have a skeletal structure, & we know how durable bones are (which is on par to superhuman physical characteristics's durability requirement).
I managed to get 3.720086256 KJ for my amateur calculation on kicks, which is way more than 3000 J. Did I do anything wrong?
As for this argument, anyone including althletes can kick & stomp to exceed 300 Joules. The wiki usually shrugs off these issues at lower levels (10-C to 9-C) & there's the fact that street fights are usually/mostly fist fights, although stomps & kicks do factor into the survival of each opponent. This change is probably going to be in for another thread due to the complexity &/or overlapping (definitions/forces/joules) of what humans, athletes & peak humans can do. In the meantime, I'll say that we don't need to change the tiering system at lower levels.
H3110l12345I20
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Should we discuss this here, or should I make a CRT about this?
I mean, if I had to analyze athlete, human & street level; there's some areas where they overlap. Humans can attack with more than 1000 Joules with their legs & overlaps into street level, some people that are peak human are technically athletes, & there's the fact that anyone including athletes can kick & stomp to exceed 300 Joules, overlapping into street level. There's also the fact that the human's durability feats as of now would be street level-street level+.
With the fact that they all overlap into street level, we could raise up the athlete level-street level border. I'm not sure about the human level-athlete level border
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