CRT for potentially upgrading Superhuman Physical Characteristics

[KLOL506]

Elaborate, please.

Basically humans have insane blunt-force durability feats but piercing damage and organ damage can easily screw them over, like say, piercing damage from bullets and knives.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

I remember a Ripley's believe it or not Book showing an average-sized croc getting torn apart by a full gang of hippos.

Yeah I'll definitely need a picture of that

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah I'll definitely need a picture of that

Yeah, it had a picture too, I might have to look for the book later.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Damn, the Calculation Group really is supposed to be very active.
Ok, now to link dump a couple of sources on bears towards humans. At this point, we already have enough feats to show that ordinary people don't easily survive Wall level attacks or any equivalent without any fatal injuries. Feats like falling from terminal velocity isn't survivable unless if you reduce the force/energy from getting hit to the ground.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teenager-mauled-death-polar-bear-3823639 (Archived)
Attributed source(s): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America (Archived) (Gave verifiable sources, but may not be reliable itself.)(Due to copyright, these sources will not be archived.)
https://archive.org/details/greatbearalmanac0000brow/page/250/mode/2up
https://web.archive.org/web/20170127203845/https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/es/species/mammals/grizzly/board of review report Stewart 2014 final.pdf
Potential Outlier: https://www.healthline.com/health/hysterical-strength#in-the-news (Archived)
https://web.archive.org/web/2007092...com/archives/60217/news/nunavut/60217_03.html (Archived) (Although a woman in Ivujivik did manage to beat a Polar Bear in a fight, in character Polar Bears typically are curious & stay away from humans (https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(99)70848-3/pdf (Archived)).)

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Basically humans have insane blunt-force durability feats but piercing damage and organ damage can easily screw them over, like say, piercing damage from bullets and knives.

On the other hand, there's feats of humans on hysterical strength, using (almost) 100% strength to lift vehicles to save others (although most likely lifting from the side & redirecting the weight to the non lifted side rather than lift the vehicle off the ground) overpowering a stronger human, & (outlier) fighting a Polar Bear. I would like to hear the elaboration of how you would tier these feats from everyone that's reading this.

 

[KLOL506]

On the other hand, there's feats of humans on hysterical strength, using (almost) 100% strength to lift vehicles to save others (although most likely lifting from the side & redirecting the weight to the non lifted side rather than lift the vehicle off the ground) overpowering a stronger human, & (outlier) fighting a Polar Bear. I would like to hear the elaboration of how you would tier these feats from everyone that's reading this.

Yeah we tried those years back, all got rejected due to humans not actually fisticuffing the bears and using weapons and stuff to go toe-to-toe.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I think the main issue is that AP and durability in real life isn't really such a simple linear scale like our wiki's system makes it to be. If you take like ramming with full speed the average Joe is 9-C. But if you take a 9-C baseball bat swing to the head you're probably dying.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Yeah we tried those years back, all got rejected due to humans not actually fisticuffing the bears and using weapons and stuff to go toe-to-toe.

I think the main issue is that AP and durability in real life isn't really such a simple linear scale like our wiki's system makes it to be. If you take like ramming with full speed the average Joe is 9-C. But if you take a 9-C baseball bat swing to the head you're probably dying.

So... should superhuman durability be Street level+, or Wall level? This dude survived a car crash & most fatal car crashes are under 40 mph. If only the person was going under 40 mph, this gives us 306802.8488 J for the person + car & 9.912300175 KJ for the person only. John Ferraro has a skull almost 3 times thicker than the average man's skull (Archived)(wikipedia's article on him did say 2.3 times, but the reference was a dead link), regularly (having people) break(ing) hard things above his head.

For prehistoric hunter-gatherers, they survived blows to the head from clubs, possible clay projectiles to the head from slings (I did a possible calculation on projectiles of slings from a pdf, if you're interested. I'm not sure about the calculation's existence), & had a modern build that made them comparable to modern athletes.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

So... should superhuman durability be Street level+, or Wall level? This dude survived a car crash & most fatal car crashes are under 40 mph. If only the person was going under 40 mph, this gives us 306802.8488 J for the person + car & 9.912300175 KJ for the person only. John Ferraro has a skull almost 3 times thicker than the average man's skull (Archived)(wikipedia's article on him did say 2.3 times, but the reference was a dead link), regularly (having people) break(ing) hard things above his head.

For prehistoric hunter-gatherers, they survived blows to the head from clubs, possible clay projectiles to the head from slings (I did a possible calculation on projectiles of slings from a pdf, if you're interested. I'm not sure about the calculation's existence), & had a modern build that made them comparable to modern athletes.

PS: Hunter-gatherers possibly/maybe engaged in wars with each other.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I think the main issue is that AP and durability in real life isn't really such a simple linear scale like our wiki's system makes it to be. If you take like ramming with full speed the average Joe is 9-C. But if you take a 9-C baseball bat swing to the head you're probably dying.

I mean, some weak spots/pressure points take only a punch to have significant effects on the person, others take a 9-C attack.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I think the main issue is that AP and durability in real life isn't really such a simple linear scale like our wiki's system makes it to be. If you take like ramming with full speed the average Joe is 9-C. But if you take a 9-C baseball bat swing to the head you're probably dying.

Where's the calculation for full speed rams/tackles?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I think the main issue is that AP and durability in real life isn't really such a simple linear scale like our wiki's system makes it to be. If you take like ramming with full speed the average Joe is 9-C. But if you take a 9-C baseball bat swing to the head you're probably dying.

& to tip it off, we also have vital organs.

 

[KLOL506]

Where's the calculation for full speed rams/tackles?

Here

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Hmmmmmmm, is that the speed of the actual leg+shin combo or is it the speed of the ball?

Also, I'm pretty sure the world record is 211-221 km/h by Ronny Heberson (Full list of such shots here).

Do we add in stuff like physical combat speed & reaction speed to the potential changes?

 

[KLOL506]

Do we add in stuff like physical combat speed & reaction speed to the potential changes?

Usually we base speed on a person's ability to move around the place (AKA travel and movement speed), not on how fast they can fight, kick or even react to things. Because at that point they leave the realm of the starting point of superhuman and reach Subsonic speeds as a whole.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Usually we base speed on a person's ability to move around the place (AKA travel and movement speed), not on how fast they can fight, kick or even react to things. Because at that point they leave the realm of the starting point of superhuman and reach Subsonic speeds as a whole.

That will be considered, although I've asked this question, like 3 times already but I'll wait as long as a response: So... should superhuman durability be Street level+, or Wall level?

This dude survived a car crash & most fatal car crashes are under 40 mph. If only the person was going under 40 mph, this gives us 306802.8488 J for the person + car & 9.912300175 KJ for the person only. John Ferraro has a skull almost 3 times thicker than the average man's skull (Archived)(wikipedia's article on him did say 2.3 times, but the reference was a dead link), regularly (having people) break(ing) hard things above his head.

For prehistoric hunter-gatherers, they survived blows to the head from clubs, possible clay projectiles to the head from slings (I did a possible calculation on projectiles of slings from a pdf, if you're interested. I'm not sure about the calculation's existence), & had a modern build that made them comparable to modern athletes.

PS: Hunter-gatherers possibly/maybe engaged in wars with each other.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Spinosaurus here.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I mean, most of the strongest stuff an ordinary person can do is Street level+, so I guess I'll lean towards that area due to dense bones. So far:

• Speed: Faster than 12.34 m/s. (Faster than Usain Bolt & other 100 meter Olympic sprinters in travel speed)
• Lifting Strength: Over 501 kg (Can deadlift more than Olympic Weightlifters.)
• Striking Strength: At least Street Class+ (Attacks are more than tens of thousands of joules (x>10,000 J), stronger than peak humans in real life.)
• Durability: At least Street level+ (Can withstand more force/energy than even the most densest bones & skulls can't handle, but can still be killed by things like spears, high-caliber rounds, etc.)

• I agree with Spinosaurus here.

  I'm not going to deny Spinosaurus, I've researched into human weak spots/pressure points & vital organs. Moves like a punch to the liver/neck will definitely defeat the human. Kicks & stomps can break bones, hit shins, & severely injure a person if they got to the head.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Who's going to agree/disagree on the potential changes? This is a CRT.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far? Also, should we move this thread to our staff forum?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think the baseline for Superhuman lifting strength and speed are otherwise unchanged thus far; being stronger and faster than the strongest and fastest man on earth is the reasonable bench mark for Superhuman requirements. But I otherwise agree with Spinosaurus for the AP and Durability stuff since they tend to be very nonlinear IRL.

 

[Antvasima]

Did you take care to call our entire calc group here KLOL506, or did you overlook some of them? In the latter case, it seems best to call the others here as well.

 

[KLOL506]

Did you take care to call our entire calc group here KLOL506, or did you overlook some of them? In the latter case, it seems best to call the others here as well.

I think I called a majority of them here AFAIK, but uh, they don't seem to be responding yet.

 

[Antvasima]

I think I called a majority of them here AFAIK, but uh, they don't seem to be responding yet.

Okay. I will try as well.

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @DMUA @Damage3245 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @KieranH10 @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @Amelia_Lonelyheart @DragonGamerZ913 @M3X @AbaddonTheDisappointment

Would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Disagree with street level and/or class. If anything, we should move the athletic human level or peak human to these values. It's like a human having a wall level feat, we'd move the value of peka human idk, to this "wall level" feat. This means if everything here gets accepted we need to change our AP chart.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with M3X.

 

[Therefir]

I believe tackling shouldn't be taken into account to decide the upper limits of a human, the energy is dispersed over a large area and the calc itself might have inaccuracies as it was measured with a physical stopwatch.

I doubt there is a single person whose striking strength exceeds 3 thousand joules even in the best scenarios, so there is still plenty of room in Street level to be considered "superhuman".

And some people might straight up be actually superhuman thanks to a genetic mutation, just like that person whose bones were 8 times denser than the average.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out with evaluations.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Disagree with street level and/or class. If anything, we should move the athletic human level or peak human to these values. It's like a human having a wall level feat, we'd move the value of peka human idk, to this "wall level" feat. This means if everything here gets accepted we need to change our AP chart.

wdym isn't Street level peak human

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Me causally reading over my phone whist I can't log in through there.

Disagree with street level and/or class. If anything, we should move the athletic human level or peak human to these values. It's like a human having a wall level feat, we'd move the value of peka human idk, to this "wall level" feat. This means if everything here gets accepted we need to change our AP chart.

I thought you guys shrugged off these inaccuracies.
The Superhuman Physical Characteristics article stated, "The levels of strength, speed or stamina significantly exceed what is theoretically feasible for a regular person." This could be interpreted as having more physical characteristics than regular people, you could say that any person in their lifetimes could've been peak human, so that's why I drew the border there.

I mean, my opinion on the source for athlete level is that athletes can shoot sports projectiles/objects far, but has no one considered their bodily striking strength. Anyone could kick/stomp & exceed Athlete level+.

I doubt there is a single person whose striking strength exceeds 3 thousand joules even in the best scenarios, so there is still plenty of room in Street level to be considered "superhuman".

Wait, is there anything flawed in the calculations I did or the calculations for kicks? I thought stomps caused skull fractures.

And some people might straight up be actually superhuman thanks to a genetic mutation, just like that person whose bones were 8 times denser than the average.

The energy/force it would take to break these denser bones is unknown but is at least Street level+. Considering that bones break at 9920 J at a 50 degree angle, I slapped a "Can withstand more force/energy than even..." for that reason. In general, there's plenty of ways to build bone density. There's many reasons for why I considered Wall level durability as an upgrade for SPC. Little to no people survive terminal velocity at concrete at full speed, savage attacks from big animals, getting crushed/trampled by unlivable amounts of weight exerted on them, etc.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Thank you for helping out with evaluations.

I've made a blog post concerning different types of potential changes (including the original), linking/refing it to sources that I'll archive in the Wayback Machine, Archive.vn &/or Ghostarchive. After this message I'll do knives & bullets next.

Question: How were the original standards on the SPC page as of now determined & why?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Blog post has been completed with reliable sources & has been archived 3 times.

Edit: Ref errors have been fixed as of now.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

The original description has been updated to include the original, analyzed & current proposal.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

The original description has been updated to include human attacks in alphabetical order. Human Bites will be coming soon

 

[Therefir]

Blog post has been completed with reliable sources & has been archived 3 times.

Edit: Ref errors have been fixed as of now.

I think it looks good.

 

[StekFence]

I remember a Ripley's believe it or not Book showing an average-sized croc getting torn apart by a full gang of hippos.

Yeah hippos are basically the scariest animal around.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I think it looks good.

I was just organizing the description since there was a day of inactivity, but I shouldn't really complain.
Thank you for the feedback! Although, we're at this point, slightly higher from where we started.

We do have a skeletal structure, & we know how durable bones are (which is on par to superhuman physical characteristics's durability requirement).

I managed to get 3.720086256 KJ for my amateur calculation on kicks, which is way more than 3000 J. Did I do anything wrong?

Disagree with street level and/or class. If anything, we should move the athletic human level or peak human to these values. It's like a human having a wall level feat, we'd move the value of peka human idk, to this "wall level" feat. This means if everything here gets accepted we need to change our AP chart.

As for this argument, anyone including althletes can kick & stomp to exceed 300 Joules. The wiki usually shrugs off these issues at lower levels (10-C to 9-C) & there's the fact that street fights are usually/mostly fist fights, although stomps & kicks do factor into the survival of each opponent. This change is probably going to be in for another thread due to the complexity &/or overlapping (definitions/forces/joules) of what humans, athletes & peak humans can do. In the meantime, I'll say that we don't need to change the tiering system at lower levels.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I made no argument. I just said that if you're gonna change the superhuman page, our AP chart has to reflect that change. Saying that atheletes can exceed 300 joules goes against our AP chart, this means we will have to change it.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I made no argument. I just said that if you're gonna change the superhuman page, our AP chart has to reflect that change. Saying that atheletes can exceed 300 joules goes against our AP chart, this means we will have to change it.

Should we discuss this here, or should I make a CRT about this? Hol, up, 9-C is considered superhuman to this wiki? If yes, then why?
I mean, if I had to analyze athlete, human & street level; there's some areas where they overlap. Humans can attack with more than 1000 Joules with their legs & overlaps into street level, some people that are peak human are technically athletes, & there's the fact that anyone including athletes can kick & stomp to exceed 300 Joules, overlapping into street level. There's also the fact that the human's durability feats as of now would be street level-street level+.

With the fact that they all overlap into street level, we could raise up the athlete level-street level border. I'm not sure about the human level-athlete level border, do we leave it be, merge the 2?, Half it?, I don't know! Athletes are stronger than regular humans & we can define what athletes are.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Well, if humans can exceed the energy output we have them at, then we should change it. There's no "Street level" durability or attack potency for a human, if a human can do that, then it's human level, not street level. That's how the Tier works.