Cozy Heart vs Banjo & Kazooie

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Bear & bird duo fight the only bird in a series full of bears

Cozy Heart Pengui (8-A version) vs Banjo & Kazooie (8-A version, no vehicles)

Win via KO, incapacitation, or death. SPEED EQUALIZED

They start 100 meters away

Cozy Heart's AP: 365 tons

B&K's AP: 476 tons

 

[GyroNutz]

...we have Care Bear profiles?

Anyway, B&K scale far above the 476 ton feat given that a weakened Gruntilda can blow up the HAG-1 with a single, albeit stronger than usual, spell. They can probably escape from the BFR too since they have jiggies. Finally, stuff like Grenade Eggs do much more damage than regular eggs, Fire Eggs burn the opponent and Ice Eggs freeze the opponent. I'll leave that all here for now

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Yes, we do.

They don't even BFR right off the bat in-character so that's irrelevant anyway. Cozy Heart resists ice, which according to all the other B&K threads is one of their main things, so that's worth mentioning. That aside virtually every Care Bear/Cousin's go-to thing is the Care Bear Stare, which powernulls and empathic manips into not wanting to fight anymore.

 

[GyroNutz]

It's not that ice is their main thing, it's that its usually their only way to get past regen. Grenade eggs, fire eggs and magic wrench are just as in-character.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Do they have a way to prevent being empathic manip'd?

 

[GyroNutz]

How does it work?

 

[TheArsenal1212]

As much as I love B&K, emphatic manip screws them over. If it's done with a stare then it may be GG

 

[GyroNutz]

"Care Bear Stare is a powerful beam of light which emanates from the user's belly. It is explained that the user must find their center and focus their emotions and their energy in order to successfully pull it off. The Stare can have a wide variety of effects depending on the intentions of the user and the base morality of the target. It can be used to illuminate surroundings, alter the target's emotional state or morality, nullify effects such as freezing and corruption, levitate objects, or simply harm the target."

I bolded the parts which interested me. This means:

• It is not done via staring, it's done via a beam which can be dodged/likely blocked with wonder wing.
• It being a beam means it can likely only target one of Banjo or Kazooie, though not 100% on that.
• It can only be used if Penguin focuses, which is likely very hard to do when she's being bombarded by eggs, most of which severely harm her, or being grabbed by the magic wrench and thrown around.
• That also implies she can't fire the beam right off the bat.
• Even if Penguin fires and lands the beam, it doesn't necessarily emphatic manip the bear and bird duo. She may use it to harm them instead.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

It's not done via just staring, that's correct.

• It being a beam means it can likely only target one of Banjo or Kazooie, though not 100% on that.

It's been used to turn an entire town, that'd been brainwashed into being angry, happy again

• It can only be used if Penguin focuses, which is likely very hard to do when she's being bombarded by eggs, most of which severely harm her, or being grabbed by the magic wrench and thrown around.

Take a look at her Intelligence section though.

Cozy Heart is an expert swimmer and has mastered the Care Bear Stare, an ability which requires immense concentration and emotional control to pull off, to the point where she can use it at an instant's notice

All-- for lack of a better word-- "veterans" of the Care Bear Family, which means everyone save for these two pandas from this one episode, have mastered this ability to the point where they can fire it off just whenever they need to.

• That also implies she can't fire the beam right off the bat.

See above.

• Even if Penguin fires and lands the beam, it doesn't necessarily emphatic manip the bear and bird duo. She may use it to harm them instead.

The issue with that is it is virtually never a Care Bear's intention to flat-out harm someone. The most common uses of it are to empathic manip or power null. Since B&K look like they'd be relatively non-threatening normally, she'd likely go for the former.

 

[GyroNutz]

Fair enough

I feel like if pretty much every Care Bear can shoot their beam pretty much straight away, then the Care Stare description should be updated. Still, fair enough.

No, but how many times has Penguin been put in a situation where she's in a fight or situation where she needs to use her beam, and willing to kill her opponent? I'd imagine a series like Care Bears wouldn't have many cases like those.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Willing to kill =/= wanting to kill

If a character's go-to thing is to incap, SBA doesn't change that.

 

[GyroNutz]

If a character does something while unwilling to kill, it's not likely they'll do the same thing while willing to kill, especially when that distinction is between incapping or harming the opponent.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Uh, yes, it is very likely. Making someone willing to kill with SBA doesn't turn them into ultraviolent killing machines. She may be willing to kill, but nothing changes about the fact that she doesn't want to. Notice how even in a match with someone like Ness, who is a pacifist, people still debate using the same in-character starting moves he'd use even if he wasn't willing to kill.

 

[GyroNutz]

Uh, no? Any Frisk or Steven Universe (the character) match has them starting out with attacks first, then talking it out later. I'm not saying she's gonna go on a murderous bloodfueled rampage, I'm saying that she'll be willing to kill, and thus will consider tactics that will help her kill her opponent. I'm assuming she's never been willing to kill before, then?

 

[Moritzva]

SBA specifically says characters are willing to kill. So, pacifists, if driven to it, will slay their opponent. That does not mean the Care Bear is bloodlusted and will attempt to kill even after the Care Bear has already won.

Vote Care Bear.

 

[Elizhaa]

SBA specifically says characters are willing to kill. So, pacifists, if driven to it, will slay their opponent. That does not mean the Care Bear is bloodlusted and will attempt to kill even after the Care Bear has already won.
Vote Care Bear.

True, characters are willing kill in Standard Battle Assumptions (SBA):

• State of mind: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't. Furthermore characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.

 

[GyroNutz]

That misses the point(s) entirely. First of all, it's not guaranteed that Penguin will start with emphatic manipulation because in this situation she is willing to kill, a situation she has seemingly never been in before. No one is saying she's bloodlusted, the argument was to do with how she would use the care bear stare, which has several applications other than emphatic manipulation. Secondly, it's a beam that can be dodged by far more experienced fighters. Thirdly, that doesn't take into account the fact that Kazooie's Grenade Eggs are far more powerful than regular eggs (3x more powerful in game), which can harm enemies like Klungo who can take attacks from Gruntilda who blew up the HAG-1 with a single spell while weakened, the HAG-1 already being more powerful than Penguin. Any grenade eggs landed will cripple Penguin, and it'll likely only take a few to kill.

 

[Moritzva]

That misses the point(s) entirely. First of all, it's not guaranteed that Penguin will start with emphatic manipulation because in this situation she is willing to kill, a situation she has seemingly never been in before.

So what? If their go-to move in every dangerous situation is to emphatically manipulate the target, that's what they'll do here. Being willing to kill in an absolute worst-case-scenario isn't going to change what they start with.

No one is saying she's bloodlusted, the argument was to do with how she would use the care bear stare, which has several applications other than emphatic manipulation.

You seem to be veering towards arguing that she's bloodlusted, honestly. As well, if they primarily use the Care Bear Stare one way, they'll likely use it that way.

Secondly, it's a beam that can be dodged by far more experienced fighters.

If a beam is capable of hitting an entire city at once, I very highly doubt Banjo will be dodging it constantly.

Thirdly, that doesn't take into account the fact that Kazooie's Grenade Eggs are far more powerful than regular eggs (3x more powerful in game), which can harm enemies like Klungo who can take attacks from Gruntilda who blew up the HAG-1 with a single spell while weakened, the HAG-1 already being more powerful than Penguin. Any grenade eggs landed will cripple Penguin, and it'll likely only take a few to kill.

A few easy-to-dodge projectile eggs <<< A giant beam that can instantly incapacitate in one shot.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Knitpicking, but the beam didn't cover the entire city, it just affected an entire city. A single Bear's beam is about human-sized.

 

[GyroNutz]

Just like how pacifist Frisk's in-character action in every dangerous situation is to talk it out with the opponent? We treat it differently here because it is different; the character that wouldn't be otherwise is now willing to kill and will therefore try different tactics to suit their different state of mind.

See here. The care bear stare isn't some city-wide beam, it's a reasonably easy to dodge beam usually. Also Kazooie's eggs are homing attacks, and they have tagged more mobile opponents than Penguin even without HOMING turned on.

 

[Moritzva]

Knitpicking, but the beam didn't cover the entire city, it just affected an entire city. A single Bear's beam is about human-sized.

Ah. Well, regardless, it's area of effect is pretty large.

Also, Frisk, in-character, in just about every single battle, does not instantly resort to combat, and that's exactly how we treat Frisk on this wiki, unless SBA says otherwise.

 

[GyroNutz]

Also, Frisk, in-character, in just about every single battle, does not instantly resort to combat, and that's exactly how we treat Frisk on this wiki, unless SBA says otherwise.

We don't treat Frisk like that, no. Hell, even in Steven vs Frisk, they talked it out as a last resort.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

...yes we do. Under SBA even a pacfist will be willing to kill to win.

 

[Moritzva]

...yes we do. Under SBA even a pacfist will be willing to kill to win.

Exactly. They'll do it. That doesn't mean they'll lead with it.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Bump