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Cosmic Ghost Rider Profile Revision

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Ok, before really get into this, I have to come clean and admit that I originally did not know there was a profile for Cosmic Ghost Rider. That said, I ended up creating a completely new profile for him in my blog.

After finding out there is an actual profile for him already, I decided to look it over and incoporate what was there into my profile. Yet as I did, I found some stuff that I disagreed with. So, I only took certain things from the original.

As such, I would just like to look at the two profiles, their differences and such and decide how to proceed basically and iron out the details.




So let's talk about the stuff in the original that I didn't keep and why:


Dimensional Travel: I think I get where this is coming from. Johnny Blaze has Dimensional Travel and then there's the fact that CGR is from another universe. Yet, I'm not convinced. He's never truly shown it, IMO. We have to remember that CGR is from an alternate future timeline that was eventually erased. As such, all he had to Time Travel back with the Time Stone to get to the current 616 universe. The next time he ends up in Earth-616 he was transported there by an alternate Odi. Hence, I don't see why he should have it, given that he hasn't demonstrated it.

Regenerationn: Ok, the thing here is, that I haven't seen the guy regenerate from anything. Maybe, I'm missing something but even the current profile doesn't actually list what level of it he would even have. As such, I'm saying that we don't list him with it because he hasn't demonstarted it and we really don't know what level he'd have. Given the fact that this guy has access to the Power Cosmic plus the basic Ghost Rider powers, he might have even better than Johnny Blaze. So, for now, I think it's best if we don't list him with it until the comics give us something tangible to work with wit.

Resurrection: This is another power that CGR hasn't demonstrated at all. Even worse, he's died three times and each time, he was brought back by something else twice. The first time is when he became a Ghost Rider via a deal with Mephisto. So, that wasn't him. Next, he gets killed by the Fallen One. CGR ends up in Valhalla, the Asgardian afterlife. From there, he's sent back into an earlier time of the 616 universe by Odin. However, we later learn that he's still dead and Hela can control him because of it. Later, Hela loses control of him, but without her power at this point, his body crumbles and CGR ends up in Hell. So, yeah, there's no actual evidence he can ressurect on his own.

Type 8 Immortality: What proof is there that he has Type 8? There is no evidence other than Johnny Blaze having it.

Range: I changed this because his current rating just assumes that CGR has the Stellar range because other Heralds of Galactus do. However, the Heralds here on site have different ranges. Silver Surfer has Universal, others have Interplanetary and Morg has Planetary. However, CGR has never displayed ranges close to this and believe that it's a little much to grant him something more than what he's actually shown.


Now for what I added:


Self-Sustenance: He commonly rides through space without aid and as such, I think it's safe to say that CGR doesn't need to breath.

Energy Projection: He's shown to fire energy blasts, like in his battle with alternate Thanos. Just to reinforce that.

Explosion Manipulation: Mainly due to him causing an a blast of Hellfire that resembles a nuclear detonation. I think I might be stretching this one, TBH.

Weapon Mastery, Stealth Mastery & Martial Arts: This is due to the fact that CGR shares his history with 616 [[Punisher (Marvel Comics)]|Punisher]. As such he should have the same training and experiences.

Mind & Pain Manipulation: On Ghost Rider's profile, this is how we list the nature of the Penance Stare. Given that CGR does have it, I think it is fitting.

Time Stop: CGR threatened Thanos with the ability to stop time. The narration further notes that he's not a liar.


So, after looking over everything, what do all of you out there think.
 
Here's my main and biggest issue. What evidence is there that the heroes he beat are comparable to the 616 versions? Not every version of Thor, Doctor Strange, or Hulk are the same. Unless there's clear scaling or a feat backing it the most I can see is 5-B.

Using DC an Marvel examples to back my point: All-star Superman was downgraded for this reason, people like 70s Hulk are five numbered tiers below 616 Hulk, and in the comics themselves there's stuff like an Alt Black Bolt killing multiple Alt Celestials with a shout.
 
I would definitly that that is a legit point, I myself was thinking but seeing how 4-B had been accepted, I did not really question it at the time.

But that's why I'm glad were looking at this point.

The one thing though that nags at me would be the alternate Thanos. That version of Thanos is what would happen if 616 Thanos was raised by CGR. So question would be then, was early Thanos still 4-B or was he weaker?
 
If it's a alternate branch of the 616 timeline there's a better argument to be had. Since it was the same universe until a divergence. But it's still a alternate universe and if none of his feats are even close to 4-B he shouldn't be 4-B.
 
His Resistance to Telepathy should be Resistance to Madness Manipulation. He's not resisting the Telepathy itself, Galactus is still searching stuff in his mind, but he resists having Galactus scouring his brain with the awareness of a galaxy, which he says would be too much for anyone and would make them insane.

"Has to hold back not to destroy worlds" is something that should not be in his AP, but a Feats section.

Dimensional Travel should stay, this guy brought Thanos into a future where he won and killed everyone with the Time Stone, no? Meaning that Thanos was removed from the part. (I have a thread about that here)

I agree with the rest.
 
If the universe with cosmic ghost rider is a fork of 616 after the 4-B feats took place, I don't see what's wrong with 4-B/
 
I completely understand Qawsedf's issues with the scaling but agree with Woki on them being 4-B.
 
When was the fork though? And more importantly he should only scale to the alt-616 Thanos with the fork and not the other heroes.
 
Ok, let's lay this out.

1. The Forks

CGR is from a fork of 616. The fork occurs decades ahead of the current 616. So, 616 as it stood before the Thanos Wins arc is canon to CGR's timeline. All the feats, stories, and character development that happened before Thanos Wins are intact.

However, when CGR travels to the past of 616 and takes Thanos, he creates another fork. In this fork, Thanos grows up to be the Punisher and creates the wretched society that all those heroes we saw came from. Remember, Thanos is thousands of years old in current 616. CGR went to the point in the past when Thanos is like three. So, Cable and the alternate heroes came from a timeline that would be completely different due to Thanos being different and on a crusade to create a perfect peaceful society. As such, thousands of years worth of 616's events would be altered. Hence, we can't trust that the heroes of this fork are up to the standarad of 616 due to the fact they're histories would be utterely different.

2. Thanos

So the question comes down to Alt Thanos himself and thus 616 Thanos. Thanos' level of power as an adult has two distinct phases from what I can tell. Pre-Thanos Quest and Thanos Quest.

Pre-Thanos Quest is Thanos before he was revived by Death and went after the Soul/Infinity Gems. This Thanos could fight with Classic Adam Warlock, who is 4-B due to fighting a troll stronger than Ulik. Ulik can overpower Thor, though Thor can can fight back.

During Thanos Quest, Thanos is revived by Death and has his power increased. This is the Thanos who knocks around Silver Surfer, Hulk, Thor, Beta Ray Bill and mops the floor with the entire Avengers team in modern comics as we know him.

Based on this, Alt Thanos has no chance of being comparable to Thanos Quest Thanos. Due to his different history, he never becomes enamored with Death which would lead him down the road of dying and then being revived with increased power. So that leaves Pre-TQ Thanos. In the CGR comic, we see that Thanos even as a three year old, is super strong. He's able to beat Cable with his own metallic arm. Hence, if we believe that Thanos simply grew into his power with age (like how Superman should be stronger then he was as Superboy) then Alt Thanos should be comparable to Pre-TQ Thanos.

At least, that's my reasoning for CGR being 4-B. Thoughts??
 
Yeah I'm fine with that. My main worry was that CGR was from an Ultimate style alt-universe with similarities but no connected history. Him scaling to be 4-B from early Thanos is therefore fine imo as long as it's explained.

He shouldn't scale to the other alt-universe superheroes though for a 4-B rating
 
Yobo Blue said:
Early Post-Crisis he was weaker than normal Superboy tho.
You're thinking of his clone. Superboy in this context just means Clark when he was like, a teenager.
 
Stuff seems fine then. Did he display anything with the power cosmic beyond just straight up power?
 
Ok, I've made the changes to my revised profile.

1. I've changed the scaling to fighting and killing alt Thanos. I also made a second note to help explain the context of said scaling.

1.A. I moved his fighting all the various heroes to his Feats and added a note on why that shouldn't count towards his scaling justification.

1.B. Also moved his statement about having to hold as to not break worlds to Feats.

2. Changed resistance to Telepathy to Madness Manipulation.

3. Added Dimensional Travel to the profile based on Eficiente's thread here. Objections??

3.A.
Questio: Based on that, CGR should get Low Multiversal Range with the Time Stone, right?

4. After looking at the comic over, CGR fighting all those heroes actually contradicts Limitless Stamina. At the end of the fight and after he's killed most of them, he appears tired/dazed and ends up being knocked out. Thoughts??
 
You should probably use thanos to justify the speed too, but besides that it seems fine.
 
3. No objection from me

3A. Maybe? It's a sort of limited version of Low Multiversal range though

4. Considering Silver Surfer's stamina is listed as Extremely High, yeah makes sense. Although he could have Ghost Rider's version of limitless stamina but still suffer mental fatigue after a long time fighting?

Overall, profile looks great.
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
4. Considering Silver Surfer's stamina is listed as Extremely High, yeah makes sense. Although he could have Ghost Rider's version of limitless stamina but still suffer mental fatigue after a long time fighting?
That...makes sense.

In the first issue of the comic, Odin mentions that CGR's powers are not meant for the mind of a mortal. Odin even states that Frank's mind, even after having these powers for millions of years, isn't fit for them. This is also after Odin says that he will try to tone down the toll they take on Frank's sanity.

So how about, he keeps limitless stamina BUT, I put in his weaknesses that constantly using his powers for long periods of time, mentally fatigues him.
 
Does cosmic ghost Rider need to be unlocked? I'm gonna sleep in a bit but can unlock if needed.
 
I do not mind CGR to be 4-B by scaling from other standard heralds of Galactus, and he has the powers of a Ghost Rider in addition to that.

He is also supposed to fight the entire current Avengers team at the same time in a few months according to a preview that I saw, including Thor and She-Hulk.
 
Ok, changes are made and if no one's has objections and/or problems, this thread is a wrap, me thinks.
 
I can lock this thread if the rest of you are fine with it.
 
Should CGR have one of those tab2 things, and if so would it be to Ghost Rider or Punisher?
 
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