Continuing the tradition. Geralt speed downgrade

[Firephoenixearl]

Repeat of this.

Ok so what exactly is going on with his speed stat? The reasonings for his MHS+ are more than wrong, they're weird. Let's take them 1 by 1:

• Stated to attack with the speed and force of a lightning bolt.

That's flowery writing without any sort of feat.

• Can casually swat aside arrows at point-blank range.

That's not MHS+

• Can easily dodge sonic attacks from bruxae by simply rolling away from it.

Not only is this not MHS+, but this isn't even Speed Of Sound. He clearly starts rolling before the sound is released.

• Regularly fights against and consistently keeps up with enemies that can use natural lightning to attack, like Azar Javed, who used cloud-to-ground lightning to dodge an attack from Geralt

He did use a lightning from cloud-to-ground to dodge an attack from Geralt. And this scales to Geralt's speed how...?

• and the Djinn, an Air Elemental which can manipulate entire storms with ease and also manipulate and generate natural lightning

The video linked just shows him attacking some weird cloud thingy, and holding down force fields to block lightning attacks. Not exactly a speed feat.

• and Geralt can even move away from its lightning attacks

And in that same video he's shown to be MASSIVELY slower than the lightning. He starts dodging way before a lightning attack is thrown at him.

• and parry them with his sword at close range, though at the cost of getting greatly staggered.

He starts moving for the parry before the lightning is thrown at him.

• Has repeatedly been stated to be able to move so fast that even the best of Nilfgaardian soldiers couldn't see him move, and was once stated to be able to cut 20 people down within the blink of an eye

Not MHS+. Iirc this is Subsonic at best.

So yeah. If he has nothing else to scale to, his speed should be subsonic from just these feats.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

This makes sense to me.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@SpookyShadow
@M3X
@Wokistan

 

[M3X_2.0]

I didn't get any notification even with the @, weird

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm, imma ask ant if there is anything im doing wrong then.

Can you call spooky to come here too?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Already did, I will say something about the thread later, I can't do it now and the new forum sucks in mobile

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Sucks? I actually find it pretty nice on a mobile. Definitely better than the old one.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Lmao

Well I'll respond later, but just saying, it won't get through.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sucks? I actually find it pretty nice on a mobile. Definitely better than the old one.

it isn't working well here, that's why I am not active anymore

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bold of you to say that, but ok.

Also I will respond to whatever argument tomorrow.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I agree with this, however I’m currently on vacation and can’t debate the topic thoroughly. I’ll shoot back a more elaborate response in a few days.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Sorry but we got too much backup on our Discord, many lightning stuff feats. KLOL already got that Djinn feat frame-by-frame and Geralt actually reacts to the lightning on MHS timing.

Also there's this thread for any misconception. Vilgefortz parrying multiple lightning attacks from Yennefer and Geralt being able to somewhat react to Vilgefortz in Lady of the Lake despite being weaker. Well, let's just wait for KLOL, he's the calc guy there.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I agree with this, however I’m currently on vacation and can’t debate the topic thoroughly. I’ll shoot back a more elaborate response in a few days.

Don't worry, you can leave this one to me.

Sorry but we got too much backup on our Discord, many lightning stuff feats. KLOL already got that Djinn feat frame-by-frame and Geralt actually reacts to the lightning on MHS timing.
Also there's this thread for any misconception. Vilgefortz parrying multiple lightning attacks from Yennefer and Geralt being able to somewhat react to Vilgefortz in Lady of the Lake despite being weaker. Well, let's just wait for KLOL, he's the calc guy there.

I would like to see that frame by frame thing, cus it sure didn't look like he reacted to it last time I checked.

 

[SpookyShadow]

I'll respond to what's in the post right now (not the not MHS feat since they are irrelevant and got removed by me)

The "strikes with the speed and force of a lightning bolt" is inconsistent with books alone and could be considered a hyperbole, but with the games where Geralt ACTUALLY fights with someone with almost exact attack potency of a lightning bolt and PARRIES actual lightning bolts in TW3 against Djinns, it's consistent.

This thread is overall heavily outdated because I removed all the non-MHS feats from the profile when I still had rollback privileges. You can edit it and once KLOL and other boys are there we can start debating.

 

[SpookyShadow]

I would like to see that frame by frame thing, cus it sure didn't look like he reacted to it last time I checked.

KLOL told me he had some perfect in-game gifs, so I'll leave it to him.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

someone with almost exact attack potency of a lightning bolt

Just wanted to note that having the AP of a lightning bolt doesn’t make you as fast as one.

Parrying cloud-to-ground lightning would be an acceptable feat, however consistency becomes an issue after that - I’ll leave that for Earl and you guys to discuss for the next few days.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well, we have some Lightning-fast statements and apparently a calc for Geralt blocking Lightning ? I don't see how that still leaves MHS inconsistent for them

 

[SpookyShadow]

Cloud to ground lightning is the same as the horizontal ones in Witcher, linked Vaner's thread that gives proof.

And yes, like Dante said. There are some good statements.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It should noted that in the case of parrying it ought to be shown that the movement started after lightning emerged from the cloud; if the person parrying it has an idea of where the lightning will strike before it happens (regular people can briefly sense when lightning is about the strike, for example) they can move to block it before the stepped leader occurs, effectively making the feat not require Lightning-speeds.

was that provided for Geralt’s calc?

 

[Kepekley23]

Azar Javed, who used cloud-to-ground lightning to dodge an attack from Geralt

Reminder that this is actually a massive anti-feat, considering it's a situation that requires Geralt to be moving hundreds or even thousands of times slower than the bolt.

 

[SpookyShadow]

With Geralt literally slaughtering Javed in their second fight. This was just once case, like a hypersonic character getting hit by a bullet.

@Dargoo

That's a question for KLOL, so let's wait

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

 

[Abstractions]

Parrying cloud-to-ground lightning wouldn't yield MHS+ results by far.

From my recollection Guts has a similar thing and it's only HHS+, which is slower by a very large margin.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Guts dodged lightning, not parried it

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Parrying cloud-to-ground lightning wouldn't yield MHS+ results by far.

Well, it’d depend on when the character in question started moving and if they moved during the stepped leader.

 

[Abstractions]

Guts dodged lightning, not parried it

He does have scaling from Serpico who did intercept it, so, same stuff just a different pile.

Well, it’d depend on when the character in question started moving and if they moved during the stepped leader.

I know that, I'm just saying it typically doesn't get that high. I'm pretty sure we have varying lightning speeds as well.

 

[SpookyShadow]

It's not, Serpico did that from long range and Geralt does that from very close range. I know what you're getting at but it's not the same thing in this case

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Steve_Rogers1

There doesn’t seem to actually be any picture there where Geralt is moving before the electricity hits him. Frame one has in him a parrying stance without the Jinn firing anything, frame 2 already has the electricity hitting and going through him.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

With Geralt literally slaughtering Javed in their second fight.

In their second fight, did Javed attempt the same technique? Geralt could have just defeated him before he had the opportunity to deploy it.

 

[Cropfist]

So there are proven lightning-time feats for Geralt?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Talking this over with KLOL and others offsite currently. I can’t post everything we went over so far right now, but tomorrow night I should be able to make a substantial post.

 

[Hellbeast]

I mostly agree

While "Lightning is dodged" it's mostly not cloud to ground lightning and that teleportation feat just proves it's not correct

If we use artificial electricity as the speed then the feat would be Supersonic+ which imo is more consistent with the Subsonic stuff

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well, I guess MHS+ or not, a calc of Geralt blocking Djinn's Lightning should be the best option for the verse

 

[Hellbeast]

Might be

Even then we'd need to determine if it's internally consistent with Geralt's other feats

 

[Firephoenixearl]

As i said in the post, Geralt parrying or dodging isn't legit. He clearly starts dodging/gets in a position to parry way before the lightning starts. It is actually not that hard to even understand why. Stuff like lightning or lasers tend not to have an expanding hitbox in games, they just appear immediately, they don't move. So until some more feats are given, i don't see Geralt going anywhere past subsonic for being able to move before ppl realize he's there.

 

[Hellbeast]

Would blocking count?

I recall Eredin blocked lightning from Yennefer but I can't remember where that comes from

Even if it's assumed to be artificial electricity that would be Supersonic+

EDIT: It's from this trailer so take that as you will

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Blocking wouldn't really count as he doesn't necessarily move as you can see right here.
He is already in a blocking position.

 

[Hellbeast]

Fair point

So I guess Subsonic seems better?

 

[SpookyShadow]

Totally not subsonic with the close range arrow blocking feats. And Geralt reacted to Bruxa's sonic attacks in the Last Wish.

If seriously that many feats of blocking lightning and statements do not qualify then I'm impressed, but what can I do. The best option would be Vilgefortz's feats because they are not from games (and manga feats often are accepted because they don't show movements)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You shouldn't be that impressed, none of the feats show him being comparable to lightning. And don't worry blocking stuff like lightning or laser in game being treated as unlegit won't end here, i got another one on my to-do list with a justification that is about as whack as this for another verse.

As for Vilgefortz's feats, sure do show me. Also show me the arrow dodging feats too, idk how much that would yield, but we can take a look at it.