Context for this Text?

[CNBA3]

For anyone of the staff members who come across this, could you give your thoughts as to what kind of fest this would entail?

verse: Destiny

”Determined, he rose into the air, but the Hive Knight was already charging across the Trostland cobblestones.

A sudden explosion of Void energy took the Knight by surprise, but it dodged the pulsing shockwaves of a Vortex Grenade.”

For context as to what a Vortex Grenade is, generates a small explosion in the center followed by shockwaves that radiate from the center, and from it’s radius, going inward from all sides, followed by a vacuum force outside the radius To draw in enemies.

does this entail the Knight dodged both the shockwaves radiating and imploding?

 

[CNBA3]

@Damage3245 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens could I get your thoughts here?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So what is being asked here? I'm not entirely familiar with Destiny.

 

[CNBA3]

So what is being asked here? I'm not entirely familiar with Destiny.

With the text in the OP, would it translate to a feat of the Knight dodging both shockwaves that are generated because of the Vortex Grenade? one radiating from the center and one imploding to the center? trying to get other staff members thoughts on the context.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I feel as though I'd need to actually know what a vortex grenade is to properly evaluate this. It sounds like default Science Fiction jargon that may or may not indicate anything. Is the explosion comparable to a real explosion? Do the shockwaves seem to break the sound barrier (as normal shockwaves do)? Etc.

 

[CNBA3]

I feel as though I'd need to actually know what a vortex grenade is to properly evaluate this. It sounds like default Science Fiction jargon that may or may not indicate anything. Is the explosion comparable to a real explosion? Do the shockwaves seem to break the sound barrier (as normal shockwaves do)? Etc.

Comparable as in the chemical and mechanical makeup? then no, the vortex grenade is made of Light, which is part of the spectrum, and it’s use behaves as a particle and a wave. The shockwaves are not traditional shockwaves from breaking sound barrier, but waves of light. The specific mechanics are in the OP above.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Light in Destiny is... something different, no? More equivalent to soul-energy or somethin'? I've played the game but it's been a long ass time.

Personally I'd rather leave this to a staff member more conscious of Destiny, in this case.

 

[CNBA3]

Light in Destiny is... something different, no? More equivalent to soul-energy or somethin'? I've played the game but it's been a long ass time.

Personally I'd rather leave this to a staff member more conscious of Destiny, in this case.

It’s complicated, but to give a short description, the Light is in all things and all places. With the links, even though it allows Guardians to do super human feats, it still behaves like light, with it being both a particle and a wave, and it a type of light spectrum, it’s origin is not purely or only soul or life-force base so to speak, as it is tied to everything in existence.

I understand, i just felt like if i describe some things in the OP and with the text, that it wouldn’t be necessary for anyone to know the verse (I hope i said that right without sounding offensive because i worry about that)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@WHYNAUT Aren't you the current Destiny guy? Wouldja mind helping out?

 

[WHYNAUT]

Hm, this feat can't really be calculated. Vortex grenades don't have a fixed speed as far as we know. It just indicates that the Lucent Knight is faster than the Warlock.

Calus wasn't referring to the electromagnetic spectrum, but the spectrum of Light and Dark.

Light can behave as both a particle and a wave because the verse follows quantum mechanics, where everything is both a particle and a wave.

 

[CNBA3]

Hm, this feat can't really be calculated. Vortex grenades don't have a fixed speed as far as we know. It just indicates that the Lucent Knight is faster than the Warlock.

Calus wasn't referring to the electromagnetic spectrum, but the spectrum of Light and Dark.

Light can behave as both a particle and a wave because the verse follows quantum mechanics, where everything is both a particle and a wave.

Though in the same lore tab, a Warlock through a Nova Bomb at the Knight and was hit. I am not so sure Calus refers to Arkborn as creatures of darkness considering another Cabal mistook one for a warriors of light, there is another link where Mara’s suit analyzes the energies of the traveler‘s Light with it being a totality of all light’s spectrum.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Another Warlock yes. And nova bombs have way more AoE.

Calus wonders whether they're creatures of Light or Dark. Simple as that.

That's just one of the many ways in which Light can manifest. Just because one instance of Light is radiation, doesn't mean all others are as well.

 

[CNBA3]

Another Warlock yes. And nova bombs have way more AoE.

Calus wonders whether they're creatures of Light or Dark. Simple as that.

That's just one of the many ways in which Light can manifest. Just because one instance of Light is radiation, doesn't mean all others are as well.

But considering that the knight could dodge the explosion which is fast, dodging a slow moving Nova Bomb would be simple. I also added how Cabal mistook an Arkborn for a warriors of light, and considering that there the other end of the spectrum which unknown and how Light and Dark are one end, I don’t think Calus knowledge is limited to those two either. Other was as in elements? But pretty sure that it’s still light anyway, and how Light is a spectrum. There multiple other instances of light being radiation, 1, 2, even having a frequency, 2, 3. and as for your earlier post with quantum level, it is simply a way of solving the issue of light of being either a particle or a wave and light can exist in a quantum state too with photons, doesn’t take away what light is here. Even so, the light can travel across the galaxy in a short amount of time.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Vortex nova bombs aren't slow and the cataclysm ones home in, so that doesn't change things. Besides the Knight only quickly reacted and dodged. It's not like it's running speed would scale.

Okay now you're just taking things out of context.

The Fulminator was mistaken for a "warrior of Light" because she could levitate and manipulate Arc energy to great extents, just like a Stormcaller.

The "unknown" you're referring to is completely unrelated to Calus's statement and refers to the Nine. The Nine aren't paracausal.

The spectrum Borealis refers to, is clearly the Light elements, since its in-game gimmick is switching between them.

First off, some of that refers to Solar Light, which can manipulate radiation. Secondly the Darkness has radiation and frequency as well. Everything has those things to some extent. It's not proof that any random instance of the Light moves at SoL (they don't because it would bring up many contradictions and has lower demonstrated speeds).

As I already said, in quantum physics everything is both a particle and a wave. It doesn't indicate SoL at all.

That's FtL and was done by the Traveler, which practically no one scales to.

Even of the Knight's feat was FtL, it would be an outlier.

 

[CNBA3]

Vortex nova bombs aren't slow and the cataclysm ones home in, so that doesn't change things. Besides the Knight only quickly reacted and dodged. It's not like it's running speed would scale.

Okay now you're just taking things out of context.

The Fulminator was mistaken for a "warrior of Light" because she could levitate and manipulate Arc energy to great extents, just like a Stormcaller.

The "unknown" you're referring to is completely unrelated to Calus's statement and refers to the Nine. The Nine aren't paracausal.

The spectrum Borealis refers to, is clearly the Light elements, since its in-game gimmick is switching between them.

First off, some of that refers to Solar Light, which can manipulate radiation. Secondly the Darkness has radiation and frequency as well. Everything has those things to some extent. It's not proof that any random instance of the Light moves at SoL (they don't because it would bring up many contradictions and has lower demonstrated speeds).

As I already said, in quantum physics everything is both a particle and a wave. It doesn't indicate SoL at all.

That's FtL and was done by the Traveler, which practically no one scales to.

Even of the Knight's feat was FtL, it would be an outlier.

But it did not specify whether it is cataclysm or vortex, whether it is one or the other, the travel speed would be slower than the explosion velocity. It is still considered reaction speed as the text says. And Arc is related to electromagnetic energies, like light. The point with Calus is that he was that it was never stated darkness either so it is not one or the other. In-game is still part of the lore as well. Light exists in all things and places. And that radiation and frequency is gravity waves which radiate at lightspeed. Solar Light is related to heat or light from suns which travel at lightspeed. Will comeback on the quantum part later. The guardians power comes directly from the Traveler, it should be somewhat relative. It would not as there are Guardians in game stated to dodge lasers, or Ana would dodged multiple incoming invisible x-ray lasers. Or in use of vex tech, can move faster than light.

 

[WHYNAUT]

I can use a dash to escape a grenade landing next to me, but still not escape a nova bomb in-game. It's also possible that the other Warlock was just faster than the Knight in that moment. Besides why are you even arguing this? It doesn't prove your point either way.

I see that you're not going to change your mind, so let me just keep this simple. Bring concrete proof that Guardians have SoL attack speed across the board and then we can talk. Before that point the feat is just going to be an outlier regardless of whether you're actually right about vortex grenades or not.

 

[CNBA3]

I can use a dash to escape a grenade landing next to me, but still not escape a nova bomb in-game. It's also possible that the other Warlock was just faster than the Knight in that moment. Besides why are you even arguing this? It doesn't prove your point either way.

I see that you're not going to change your mind, so let me just keep this simple. Bring concrete proof that Guardians have SoL attack speed across the board and then we can talk. Before that point the feat is just going to be an outlier regardless of whether you're actually right about vortex grenades or not.

You can also shoot it which can explode mid travel. There is also how casting a Super, time slows down too especially for void users, The point is not the super that he dodged, but the grenade itself.

Prometheus Lens - which utilizes a Crystal to refract and convert light.

Sleeper Simulant - which it's laser refracts off of surfaces.

using PDT Refraction core from the Warmind laser towers.

Hunters who's weapons wreathed in fire, fires off sunlight from them.

And instance of FTL is with No Time to Explain, hooked up on Vex Tech.

And for the quantum thing, light says light is a particle and wave, not any other particles in the description, besides, photons are considered quantas, quantas are a factor of solar light, and solar light is tided to sunlight, which golden gun users use.

 

[WHYNAUT]

That still doesn't help your point, because you're the one who brought up the nova bomb in the first place.

That's made by cryptarchs, it's not paracausal, just an advanced weapon. Guardian abilities don't scale.

Made by Rasputin, not paracausal, just an advanced weapon. Guardian abilities don't scale.

Same as above.

Yes that's the golden gun, a Solar Light super ability, which may be getting upgraded to SoL in the future. Zero reason to scale its attack speed to everyone though.

Made by Clovis Bray, not paracausal, just an advanced weapon. It being FtL is even pointed out as highly dangerous in the piece you posted, suggesting that that's something remarkable in-verse.

Half of these are just laser/radiation weapons, which Guardian abilities have no reason to scale to. When I said concrete proof, I meant proof of scaling and/or multiple feats at that level, not proof that there's weapons in the verse with SoL attack speed.

 

[CNBA3]

That still doesn't help your point, because you're the one who brought up the nova bomb in the first place.

That's made by cryptarchs, it's not paracausal, just an advanced weapon. Guardian abilities don't scale.

Made by Rasputin, not paracausal, just an advanced weapon. Guardian abilities don't scale.

Same as above.

Yes that's the golden gun, a Solar Light super ability, which may be getting upgraded to SoL in the future. Zero reason to scale its attack speed to everyone though.

Made by Clovis Bray, not paracausal, just an advanced weapon. It being FtL is even pointed out as highly dangerous in the piece you posted, suggesting that that's something remarkable in-verse.

Half of these are just laser/radiation weapons, which Guardian abilities have no reason to scale to. When I said concrete proof, I meant proof of scaling and/or multiple feats at that level, not proof that there's weapons in the verse with SoL attack speed.

It does, because nova bomb has the advantages that a vortex grenade didn’t, which gives it more reason for the knight to be hit by it, and why dodging the light shockwaves of the grenade are still impressive. That is the point, not about the warlock, but the grenade.

To summarize, those are weapons that transcend conventional sciences because they are either related to golden age secrets or the travelers energies. For the NTTE, It being dangerous is because it can cross galaxies.

There is already with Ana dodging incoming x-ray lasers, and there is an exo (not lightbearer) who can same and even match her speed.

And our guardian which is stated in story to dodge lasers too.

Also, sunlight would still be part of solar light in general and for the quantum thing, light says light is a particle and wave, not any other particles in the description, besides, photons are considered quantas, quantas are a factor of solar light, and solar light is tided to heat and sunlight, and the icarus station takes sunlight to make solar light, and heat moves at light speed.

And even the void or quantum state is related to zero-point energy, which is identifiable with electromagnetic energy, that propagates as lightspeed. Like how gravity propagates as light speed.

Another factor is how the light we form as a magnefying glass actually focuses light like real magnefying glasses do, so they are still related to each other.

Also, i don’t know about Light being tided intimately with quantum mechanics other than the void, because in the Hidden Dossier, it makes it clear that the two are separate as it is a paracausal, apart from quantum. And Hive Cleavers are considered “light” in the task for cleaving Light, and considering that light is massless, it would make sense.

 

[CNBA3]

Bump

 

[WHYNAUT]

Again, I didn't say anything about the nova bomb until you did. And I also stated that the Lucent Knight dodging the grenade at most indicates that it's faster than Warlock B. Warlock A is the one who threw the nova bomb.

None of those weapons use the Traveler's energy. They don't transcend conventional sciences either. If this is what you're referring to it still doesn't support your argument. They 'transcend' ordinary science in that humanity from the City Age doesn't understand the creations of the Golden Age (though currently they're starting to catch up, so now the statement just isn't applicable anymore). As for the "power of the Traveler" part, it just states the most power Guardian gear enters into that realm, which is a very unspecific statement and very much doesn't mean that any high-end weaponry is suddenly SoL or even FtL.

That's referring to a theoretical cannon that works on the same principle as NTTE. And it would be able to shoot across galaxies because of its FtL attack speed...

Scans?

Scans?

First of all, Golden Gun is blatantly faster than all other Solar Light abilities, since it's hitscan and the rest is not. Secondly just because one possible application of Solar Light is SoL, doesn't mean the rest suddenly scales.

"Light behaves as both particle and wave, and sometimes grenade."
Exactly, no particles are mentioned. So you don't get to cherry-pick the particle that supports your stance. Besides this scan mentions grenades as separate from particle and wave (obviously an attempt at humor) and by your logic that would exclude it from SoL.

??? By that logic real life lightning bolts are SoL. Idk where you're going with this one.

What magnifying glass are you referring to?

You misunderstand. The Light is in all things and its power can be used to manifest practically anything. The universe works on quantum mechanics and because of that Light can be both a particle and a wave.

 

[CNBA3]

Again, I didn't say anything about the nova bomb until you did. And I also stated that the Lucent Knight dodging the grenade at most indicates that it's faster than Warlock B. Warlock A is the one who threw the nova bomb.

None of those weapons use the Traveler's energy. They don't transcend conventional sciences either. If this is what you're referring to it still doesn't support your argument. They 'transcend' ordinary science in that humanity from the City Age doesn't understand the creations of the Golden Age (though currently they're starting to catch up, so now the statement just isn't applicable anymore). As for the "power of the Traveler" part, it just states the most power Guardian gear enters into that realm, which is a very unspecific statement and very much doesn't mean that any high-end weaponry is suddenly SoL or even FtL.

That's referring to a theoretical cannon that works on the same principle as NTTE. And it would be able to shoot across galaxies because of its FtL attack speed...

Scans?

Scans?

First of all, Golden Gun is blatantly faster than all other Solar Light abilities, since it's hitscan and the rest is not. Secondly just because one possible application of Solar Light is SoL, doesn't mean the rest suddenly scales.

"Light behaves as both particle and wave, and sometimes grenade."
Exactly, no particles are mentioned. So you don't get to cherry-pick the particle that supports your stance. Besides this scan mentions grenades as separate from particle and wave (obviously an attempt at humor) and by your logic that would exclude it from SoL.

??? By that logic real life lightning bolts are SoL. Idk where you're going with this one.

What magnifying glass are you referring to?

You misunderstand. The Light is in all things and its power can be used to manifest practically anything. The universe works on quantum mechanics and because of that Light can be both a particle and a wave.

Again, Warlock A is not the focus point, Warlock B’s grenade is, which it’s explosion would be lightspeed because it is made of light.

Since they are above uncommon level, they do transcend as they require more than just parts, but energies of ascendant. Even a common weapon can double as an NLS drive.

It works because it applies what it describes to do to the NTTE weapon systems.

Legacy Pt 2 — Record — Ishtar Collective — Destiny Lore by subject

CONTINGENCY EN ROUTE: URANUS – CAELUS STATION OUTER BAND — LOCATION INCONCLUSIVE “I was able to pull some data from those Exo samples.” Jinju perches on the cockpit dashboard. Two tech mites crawl over her shell. Their jump-ship plummets through fractalescent polychrome luge, ripping across the...

www.ishtar-collective.net

That is because Light is both a particle and a wave, i was asking if it mentions any other particle in that, not just light, no, it said “and” which is an inclusion, not separation. So calm down.

Since it uses light, the flash from lightning does travel at SoL.

The emote

Sure, it can manifest things, but that doesn’t stop it from behaving like actual light as it propagates and radiates, pretty sure that quantum mechanics is isolated to void use or probability kilns, Light prime function is making the immaterial real, not related to matter which has weight.

 

[WHYNAUT]

I'm not focusing on Warlock A, I'm saying they're irrelevant in response to you bringing them up again. I'm not repeating this again.

That is not relevant to Golden Age weapons, which are the ones you've been bringing up. No, the weapon you're referring to acts as a regulator for NLS drives.

And what it describes is FtL projectiles. With that explicitly being something special

"Ana pushes hard on the flight stick and reflexively dives under a barrage of laser fire."
You're referring to this? First off she's in a spaceship, so no combat speed scaling there, secondly she does it by reflex, so it doesn't really scale to reaction speed either. And lastly Rasputin's laser weaponry has consistently been portrayed as having some charge-up time, giving Ana more wiggle room for dodging them.

"I don't see you down here with us dodging lasers."
A snarky retort from Ghost about unspecified lasers. Standards on laser feats are pretty strict and this wouldn't cut it.

I wasn't trying to separate anything, Idk where you got that from. I also don't understand what the point you're trying to make is.

True, but not the lightning itself. It's a pretty good example of what my stance on this feat is.

That is very weak evidence, since the Guardian can 1. just manipulate the beams form and 2. has actual light manipulation.

Acting like actual light is something it can do, no something it does at all times. I shouldn't have to tell you this, because it's self-evident. Quantum mechanics is relevant for all elements. You're talking about zero-point energy fields specifically.


You're still primarily stuck arguing about instances of FtL attack speed, let alone giving evidence about why everyone and their dog should scale to it. And that's not even getting to the outlier argument.

 

[CNBA3]

I'm not focusing on Warlock A, I'm saying they're irrelevant in response to you bringing them up again. I'm not repeating this again.

That is not relevant to Golden Age weapons, which are the ones you've been bringing up. No, the weapon you're referring to acts as a regulator for NLS drives.

And what it describes is FtL projectiles. With that explicitly being something special

"Ana pushes hard on the flight stick and reflexively dives under a barrage of laser fire."
You're referring to this? First off she's in a spaceship, so no combat speed scaling there, secondly she does it by reflex, so it doesn't really scale to reaction speed either. And lastly Rasputin's laser weaponry has consistently been portrayed as having some charge-up time, giving Ana more wiggle room for dodging them.

"I don't see you down here with us dodging lasers."
A snarky retort from Ghost about unspecified lasers. Standards on laser feats are pretty strict and this wouldn't cut it.

I wasn't trying to separate anything, Idk where you got that from. I also don't understand what the point you're trying to make is.

True, but not the lightning itself. It's a pretty good example of what my stance on this feat is.

That is very weak evidence, since the Guardian can 1. just manipulate the beams form and 2. has actual light manipulation.

Acting like actual light is something it can do, no something it does at all times. I shouldn't have to tell you this, because it's self-evident. Quantum mechanics is relevant for all elements. You're talking about zero-point energy fields specifically.


You're still primarily stuck arguing about instances of FtL attack speed, let alone giving evidence about why everyone and their dog should scale to it. And that's not even getting to the outlier argument.

That’s right, it is irrelevant, which is why we focus on the grenade of a warlock.

Which the gun can serve to fly a ship. Besides, those powerful items that are tied fo GA secrets do require more than upgrade parts, that is the point.

Yes, which still applies to the weapon itself.

I normally do not like doing this but if reflex is not valid then there has got to be a lot of issues with other speeds on vsbattle with using precognition or reflex for speed stats.

Besides, the reflex is referring to her ship, as she already pushed down on the control stick prior to the mention of the word, she even is already alert and aware prior.

“ Jinju sends two Warspikes straight into the first of fifteen Warsats blocking their path as Ana nudges the ship between incoming laser bursts.”

Wrong as Ana dodges lasers that are already mid projection towards her with her fully aware and conscious. Whether it is a ship or not, reaction is still dependent on the pilot.

Maybe, but considering in game we have dodged lasers before from other enemies, it is still valid quote.

and let us look at all other criteria:

1. They move in strength lines.
2. speed is constant in multiple settings.
3. not tangible by ordinary hands, guardians can interact with intangible fields but don’t actually grab lasers.
4. bounce of materials.
5. don’t explode on their own on context, except for when they cause the targets themselves to explode, not the laser.
6. made from arc, solar or void energy which is electromagnetic energy or photons.
7. Comes from machines that project said energy.

I quoted you before on the previous post about how you claimed grenade being separate from particle and wave, I never said you did.

"Light behaves as both particle and wave, and sometimes grenade."
Exactly, no particles are mentioned. So you don't get to cherry-pick the particle that supports your stance. Besides this scan mentions grenades as separate from particle and wave (obviously an attempt at humor) and by your logic that would exclude it from SoL.

Just like how lasers made of arc energy are considered light as well, and even chaos reach is a beam of arc energy too.

Manipulating it one way doesn’t remove validation of the other.

Which zero point energy is relative to electromagnetic energy which propagates as light speed. Which is tied to the Void.

With what Ana could do and guardians with reacting to lasers in game, it says a lot, not only that with guardians dodging said weapons with the light speed means and like you said earlier, Guardians dodging grenade explosion too which would have lightspeed radiation being made of light, gravity, heat, etc.. There are even Ghosts who can process information inside black holes, which would require FTL reaction.

I will make things simple, even grenades radiate energy at light speed such as heat, and since these grenades are made of light and interact with other radiations such as heat or gravity, it would make sense that the explosion and shockwaves would have lightspeed.