Confusion with Some Mario Profiles

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I am just noticing this, but the current rationale for certain statistics on profiles from the Mario franchise is...odd to say the least.

First things first, many characters have their base forms scaled to High 4-C from a feat Bowser has in Mario Party 9. Said feat is stated to be creating a massive black hole that sucks up planets. However, not only do the planets sucked into said "black hole" not appear to be the size of real planets (compare them to the meteors, mini-stars, and Bowser himself), but said "black hole" acts nothing like an actual black hole, with Bowser surviving falling in as well as multiple objects exiting the vortex. On top of this, this feat is apparently being used to place regular characters above vastly boosted forms, such as placing base Bowser thousands upon thousands of times above Bowser while wielding the Star Rod.

If this is literally the only feat placing base characters at this level, not only is it built on incredibly faulty premises, but it is also very misleading to the general level of power displayed by these characters.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

The character's feat is scaled from defeating a character who can tank a supernova, not the black hole feat. The feat was added due to the it's potency being higher, which was unfortunately taken down in the forum. The planets are indeed planet sized, opposed to the ones traversed in the SMG series and as far as object coming out of it is concern, only mini-stars did. These are fictional celestial objects, so they obviously won't be restricted to the laws of nature and the proven to be FTL, scattering accross the galaxy in the ending.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The feat is, at absolute best, Large Planet level due to consuming multiple planets, and that is assuming they are real planets. It cannot be used as a legitimate black hole feat when it does not function at all like an actual black hole. We do not allow exceptions for other franchises, and we will not do so for the Marioverse just because it, like the other verses, is fictional. If the supernova feat is what is used for scaling, that is the only thing that should be on the profile.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

It is on their profiles. The characters were scaled to the supernova feat. Not the black hole feat.

 

[Antvasima]

Tanking a small part of a supernova, or tanking the entire force of one?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Stronger than Mario, destroyed Dark Bowser who replicated his DNA, and Created a black hole that can suck entire planets in Mario Party 9."

This is a direct statement from the profile used to justify Bowser's AP.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

The entirty of it. Dark Bowser copied his DNA, logically he should be just as durable as the one who tanked it in the first place.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but it sounds like some better clarifications in the profiles may be in order.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If the entirety of the High 4-C rating is from tanking a supernova, that is the only thing that should be listed. What is clearly not an actual black hole should not be listed.

Though, for clarification, is this the supernova feat we are referring to?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

No. Again, the feat was added due to the it's potency of the black hole being higher, which was unfortunately taken down in the forum. Plus, it's not even mentioned on any of the characters who scaled off from him, so there is no conflict from this at all. It will remain on his profile.

Yes, it is.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

No, it will not, not unless it is legit. The idea of it being higher comes from the idea it is a real black hole, despite not functioning at all like one. We do not make exceptions for any other franchise in cases like this. We would not do so for the Marioverse. Bowser survives this "black hole". Objects are ejected from this "black hole". We can not treat it like a real black hole.

Alright. Why are we rating it as High 4-C, though? The exploding reactor is far smaller than a regular star, and in events afterwards, the universe is reset, so why would we treat Bowser as surviving without harm in the first place?

 

[Antvasima]

Please read the following page: Black Hole feats in fictio

 

[WarriorWare]

I just think it's dumb to scale Geno and Smithy to it. Bowser had never done such a thing when Super Mario RPG was written.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

The only objects that are ejected are Mini-stars, which aren't based off of any celestial object in real life. It's a poor arguement because due to it's fictional nature, it may have abilities or propeties that does not bound it to the laws of nature such as gravitational pull. The feat isn't even scaled to anyone, thus the problem is non-existent.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The only objects that are ejected are Mini-stars, which aren't based off of any celestial object in real life. It's a poor arguement because due to it's fictional nature, it may have abilities or propeties that does not bound it to the laws of nature such as gravitational pull. The feat isn't even scaled to anyone, thus the problem is non-existent.

This argument is not accepted for any other franchise. We cannot accept it here. A black hole must act at least somewhat like an actual black hole for it to be treated as such.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Azathoth about the black hole. We cannot make exceptions for Mario alone.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Yes, it is. One of the explaination's for Sonic's speed is escaping a black hole momentarily in Sonic Colors, with the Wisp being inside of it and ejecting him out of it in the ending.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I just think it's dumb to scale Geno and Smithy to it. Bowser had never done such a thing when Super Mario RPG was written.

It's been a while, but didn't Smithy have a planetary feat or statement of some sort? Genuinely can't remember, but if he did, we can probably scale them from that.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, it is. One of the explaination's for Sonic's speed is escaping a black hole momentarily in Sonic Colors, with the Wisp being inside of it and ejecting him out of it in the ending.

Two wrongs do not make a right, and that should be removed. Sonic has repeated direct Lightspeed to very very low FTL statements, which are more than enough to substantiate his speed.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I said clearly said One of, not only reason.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, which is why I clearly said "that should be removed".

 

[Antvasima]

I think that there is an accepted convention that escaping from the event horizon of a black hole requires FTL speed.

I have no opinion about whether or not this is accurate, but we definitely have rules about that we cannot scale attack potency from supposed black holes, that do not at all behave like real ones.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

Well, actually so far I don't understand where this "High 4-C" came from, the Bowser reactor explosion did not strike me as a supernova, and shortly thereafter it spawned a black hole that swallowed the entire universe. The universe was recreated after that, so why could Bowser not have died in the event and "be born again" when the universe came into being again? Why would he necessarily have to resist?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Because official sources said he did....

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Because official sources said he did....

dosnt that say the Loomis saved him?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The wording implies that Bowsee escaped the end of the universe, like Mario did, not survived it.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

dosnt that say the Loomis saved him?

Loomis? You mean the Lumas? No, the word Luma doesn't even appear on the page.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Kevyn Souza wrote What Loomis? You mean the Lumas? No, the word Luma doesn't even appear on the page.

I remember an interview saying bowser was saved as well

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

The wording implies that Bowsee escaped the end of the universe, like Mario did, not survived it.

That makes absolutely no sense. It's the end of an entire universe, Bowser couldn't escape because he can't. The description clearly stated that Rosalina protected Mario and Peach before meeting Bowser's fate.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It did say that Bowser escaped his fate, implying that he didn't actually meet it. I'm not saying he literally escaped, but it seems clear enough that he didn't "tank" the end of the universe.

 

[Antvasima]

On the other hand, I think that what we forbid are calculations involving black holes that do not behave like real ones.

Ones with a specifically stated scale of power should probably be possible to use. After all, the black hole in question did destroy a universe, and as such can more easily be scaled from.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

It did say that Bowser escaped his fate, implying that he didn't actually meet it. I'm not saying he literally escaped, but it seems clear enough that he didn't "tank" the end of the universe.

Sorry, but your argument does not make sense. The description clearly stated that he survived it and there's logically no other way for him survive it without tanking other than Rosalina protecting him(which she didn't it.) ....He slowly sinks into the lava, cursing Mario as the reactor explodes. and Bowser tried to bend the force into his will, and in the end, he paid the price.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

i'm pretty sure someone said in an interview Rosalina did protect him.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Rosalina protect Mario and Peach, not Bowser, for goodness sake. The source literally just stated this.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Rosalina protect Mario and Peach, not Bowser, for goodness sake. The source literally just stated this.

but a different interview that came after said bowser was saved as well.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

There was no interview that claim that. Provide the link.

 

[FTW395]

Because official sources said he did....

Ehh where does it say Bowser survived the destruction of the universe, because I can't seem to find it.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

There was no interview that claim that. Provide the link.

there was but I don't have a link

why are you so hostile?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

....He slowly sinks into the lava, cursing Mario as the reactor explodes.

Mario and Peach managed to escape Bowser's fate but the force of the reactor is too strong.

This scene actually did happen in the game's cutscene.

Bowser tried to bend the force into his will, and in the end, he paid the price.

Even Bowser was there, shaken up by his narrow escape from a horrible fate.

Clearly stating that Bowser survived the destruction he caused but narrowly.

 

[Antvasima]

Darkmon, please stop interfering, if you do not have any accurate facts. Thank you.