Confirmation concerning Duma's AP (High 6-B tier placement)

[Jakob_C._Brown]

Duma's article says that Duma was co-responsible for creating the continent of Valentia from the ground up. The Fire Emblem Wikia says something different: "Duma and Mila traversed the ocean for seven days before they finally reached the continent of Valentia, which they would claim as their new home. There, they would become patron deities in the land."

However, the Fire Emblem Wikia could be faulty so I consulted the Memory Prism that depicts the conversation between Duma and Mila because that's most likely where they mention this. The closest I can find is the following what Duma says to Mila: "How long since we left our old world behind and came here to build anew."

This can be, however, interpreted in numerous ways. Why isn't it just as likely that Valentia was a barren wastleland were groups of people somehow managed to survive on and when Duma and Mila discovered it, they just revitilized the earth or provided guidance to the people to achieve some prosperity? Even if we interpret this as Duma and Mila actually creating the landmass that becomes the Valentian continent (nevermind how that raises a lore-important question as to how people ended up at Valentia then but I digress), there's no indication this act was done in a short amount of time (or throughout a long process for that matter).

Are there any concrete sources or in-game screenshots that actually confirm Duma and Mila creating the Valentian continent? Are there perhaps other, and less ambiguous, feats and sources that warrant Fire Emblem its High 6-B tier for characters like Duma, Naga, Robin, and Marth? Because now a lot of Hier 6-B tier placements are based on Duma's feat which I cannot find any confirmation or mentioning of outside of VS Battle Wikia.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There was a transcript here. It did say Valentia was once just and ocean, and would have never existed if not for Mila or Duma. I think that generally means the created the land mass. And it's definitely a short time frame, the thousands of years refers to how long they lived on the Continent; the actual forming of the landmass was less than 7 days.

Additionally, there's also plenty of other Tier 6 feats. Duma and Mila not only created it, but they're both able to pretty much reality warp half the continent. Mila is able to make plants and crops grow very quickly and plentifully, as well as prevent any sort of plagues and storms from damaging the lands or the people. Duma is also the opposite, he can cause all sorts of storms and plagues to destroy the land; which he has been bringing half the continent to ruin, and could do so with the rest of the continent if not for Mila.

Not to mention, Medeus is legit able to bring entire countries to ruin with ease, and if no one stops him, he is said to be capable of wiping all life on the planet. His fire breath has covered countries according to the index. Grima is also another character who's legitimately brought entire Continents to ruin and is almost as big as a Continent; so he's High 6-B via sheer size at minimum. Much of these characters have also fight Naga, and the Falchions are fangs of Naga. The Valentian Falchion is no weaker than the Archanian Falchion. So all Falchion wielders including Marth, Alm, Chrom with Exalted Falchion, and Future Past Lucina with Exalted Falchion should all be comparable to them both in AP and Durability. Though, sealed Falchions don't scale for obvious reasons.

 

[Jakob_C._Brown]

While I checked out the transcript page, I could't find the actual text that mentions it was all but an ocean at the beginning. However, Celica does say at the end: "My heart is full of thanks for all you've given man, O divine Duma. Without yours and Mila's bounty, Valentia could never have existed. We would never have been born into this world. Never tasted joy and sorrow."

However, this can be interpreted in two ways: either without Duma and Mila the continent of Valentia as we know it would never have existed (in the sense of a nation's existence) or that without Duma and Mila there would have been no continent whatsoever that ends up becoming Valentia (as in the actual land mass that makes a continent).

Throughout the transcripts, I do notice how the characters say that gods are important in revitilizing the lands but it seems kinda vague. Could it be AP? Just hax? It doesn't outright state Duma and Mila can affect storm on a continental scale - and while it is not a bad assumption, other people would still insist that it's just an assumpton unfortunately.

"His fire breath has covered countries according to the index." In which index? I do recall Gotoh saying how Medeus' might is powerful enough to bring ruin to the world but it could as well be a protracted process and that there's little power humankind has to stop him from tearing countries apart in due time.

Grima's remains do cover a large section of Plegia, but isn't Plegia only country-sized at best?

And since we're on the topic of Grima, is End Game Robin really High 6-B? Sure, he's one of two characters who can canonically defeat Grima but it seems more due to his special nature of sharing Grima's existence that he's capable of affecting Grima in the first place. Meanwhile, not that long ago Robin was almost about to get killed by Lucina which wouldn't make sense if Robin was too powerful for Lucina to kill.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

First, please don't quote long walls of text, as it can turn a thread redundant.

We generally treat creation and destruction feats as comparable to each other on this site; especially when it comes to creating objects out nothing. Keep in mind that creating a planet requires harnessing the same amount of energy as the planets Gravitational Binding Energy among other things. Still, Fire Emblem's lore can also be quite deep; Divine Dragons are legit the "Gods" of the FE Universe at least in Marth's timeline. And the lore did describe Divine Dragons as being able to form landmasses.

Also, that's actually pretty much the plot in Gaiden/Echoes is that when Mila was sealed away, the barrier that protected Sofia began to fade. And the plagues/storms that often covered Rigel began to spread and reached Sofia. Plagues are more environmental destruction/hax rather than AP, but storms have been consistent in being legit AP feats. As for the barrier, that can be dubious whether or not it scales to striking strength or durability, but in this case it does. Mila's blessing comes from the same magic/power source has her physical might, and that same power can easily trade blows with the likes of Duma. Alm can also trade blows with Duma in canon, so he scales and so do many others.

Medeus can bring ruin to the entire world yes, and yes, no specific time frame means it's not Planet level for sure or even Multi-Continent level is the absolute highest that could be assumed, but even then. However, Medeus legit ruined entire countries with ease, and has killed multiple Divine Dragons. Not to mention he was the one who brought down Naga, where as Mila and Duma were defeated by her. Still, the High 6-B statements I mentioned above should suffice.

Grima covered more than just Plegia, he also occupied significant parts of Fenox's landmass. Also, if one Continent contains only 3 countries, chances are is that those are actually fairly large countries. You see in the world map? Africa and Europe both contain many countries. North America only has 3 countries in which the U.S. is already large enough to be High 6-B iirc. Canada for sure is that large. Russia, China, and India are all large enough to be High 6-B as well. All three of the countries of Ylisse are large enough to be Sub-Continents; especially Fenox. So in other words, Grima is large enough to be High 6-B regardless.

End Game Robin scales to Grima. He/She is canonically the one who finishes Grima and lives; since that would be the "Best Ending." Though, I will note that he doesn't officially become High 6-B until end game. Back when Lucina had plans to kill Him/her, Robin was 7-C back then yes. It was Grima's awakening is what canonically caused Robin to grow to their level. And even then, massive tier jumps that happen all of a sudden are actually quite common in fiction; including a lot of JRPGs. So it really isn't that controversial.

 

[Jakob_C._Brown]

Still, Fire Emblem's lore can also be quite deep; Divine Dragons are legit the "Gods" of the FE Universe at least in Marth's timeline. And the lore did describe Divine Dragons as being able to form landmasses.

The problem I have is that I cannot find any (lore-based) statements outside of VBW. Other sources say that Mila and Duma stumbled upon Valentia. Like I said, the transcript you showed me still seems rather ambiguous because it can be reinterpreted in different ways. It does not clear-cut say that Duma and Mila generated the very landmass that makes up Valentia. It may as well be that they revitilized the barren wasteland of a continent now known as Valentia/Valm.

However, I will agree with you that Mila and Duma hold a great influence on Valentia at least within their own borders if not even beyond said borders.

Plegia being continental seems legit, especially if what the wikia says is true about Plegia holding territory of what was formerly Dolhr, Macedon, Altea, Gra, and Grust. I still cannot find or recall chapters in which Grima's skeletal remains were to be found beyond Plegian borders such as in Ferox or Ylisse.

So Mila and Duma having control over weather to the point of causing or preventing famines is rather unabiguous, I'll give you that but the question on whether they created the Valentian continent through their own powers is not completely clear to me at least not from the transcript you provided me.

EDIT: Just for curiosity's sake, would you pinpoint Robin being High 6-B during the final chapter or at the end of the final chapter when they finish Grima off?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I understand. I too am having trouble finding where it specifically stated that they created the landmass. Though, I do vaguely recall a transcript somewhere that described Valentia as being nothing but oceans somewhere. JustSomeWeirdo was the one who found it iirc, so I may ask him about that. But the other feats mentioned are legitimate.

And oh yeah, he doesn't cover quite that much of Fenox, but his tail does cross the center divide that separates Fenox from the other two countries.

As for Robin being High 6-B, I'd probably during the final chapter; he shouldn't be too much weaker than Chrom with Exalted Falchion during that time.