Code Vein Slight Tier Downgrade + Ability Upgrade

[DarkGrath]

bloody hell, are we done with Code Vein CRTs yet? This is gonna give me nightmares

Jokes aside, this is hopefully the last Code Vein CRT I'll have to make for a little while, and this verse will finally be all cleaned up.

The tier downgrade is simple in itself; with some more complications that come alongside it. This calc (made by DMUA and published by me) recalculated the current feat that the cast scales to as being High 6-C+, instead of Low 6-B. Since this is the currently accepted form of the calculation (or at least, it was both made and accepted by separate calc group members) the cast should be rescaled to this calculation instead of the previous one.

That's pretty simple, and hopefully not too debatable; the complicated part is scaling, which is what I feel needs to be discussed more here.

Basically, the current scaling of Code Vein across the early, late, and end games is based on the Queen's Relics. In past CRTs, it's been agreed that the Queen's Relics can be used as multipliers. This is based on things like the Queen's Relics being comparable in power with almost scary consistency, and the Queen's Relics explicitly granting the user its power. It's a bit more complicated, but it's fine, and not what I'm here to debate about. What I am concerned about is how we fit this feat into the scaling. For context, here is the full scaling:

Early-Game: Characters are comparable to 1 Queen Relic (via The Queenslayer wielding a relic and fighting the Successors, who each wield their own relics).

Late-Game: Characters are very well above 3 Relics (via Juzo Mido one-shotting three Relic users with a single strike)

End-Game: Characters are at least comparable to 10 Relics (via The Virgin Born wielding all ten of them at once)

Considering that the scaling from the High 6-C+ feat occurs in the late-game, how do we scale this? This wasn't complicated when they were scaled from early-game feats, but how do we determine the comparison between the late-game and the early/end-game? Given that they scale up from 3 Relics via a one-shot, they should be greatly beyond 3 Relics, but we otherwise don't have much scaling or comparison. As such, while the multipliers should still be usable, it'd all fall within a rough range.

For the sake of avoiding unnecessary assumptions and keeping things simple; the best suggestion I have is to take the conservative route and consider the Early-Game as being around 1/3 the late-game, and to treat the end-game as being 3.3x the AP of the late-game. This is technically not exact; and it should be noted on the scaling chain blog that there is room for variance, but both would completely avoid making unnecessary and arbitrary assumptions about how strong the late-game cast is in comparison to the 3 Queen's Relics. So it's probably as good as we can get. I would definitely appreciate input on the scaling here from Code Vein knowledgeables though.


With that whole fiasco out of the way, here's something else I wanted to talk about; Regenerationn upgrades.

Currently, the revenants within Code Vein are listed as having Mid Regenerationn, via being capable of instantly regenerating from complete slices through their entire body, including both horizontal bisection and decapitation (with decapitation in particular pushing it into Mid range). That's all good with me, but one thing it doesn't take into account is "dispersal".

Dispersal is when a revenant is only temporarily killed; in a way that allows them to reform at a Mistle. This is currently just listed as resurrection and immortality, but there's more to it than that. They do not just resurrect at the Mistle; what the game depicts when a Revenant disperses is that they... well, "disperse". Their bodies quickly split apart as they die, into so many separate pieces that they are seemingly imperceptible, before their body reforms itself at the Mistle.

While I still think this can reasonably count as resurrection, given that they do seem to die, the actual method of self-BFR should be enough to grant them High Regenerationn with Dispersal. Their normal Regenerationn should reasonably stay the same, but the dispersal process should be listed next to their normal Regenerationn on their profiles as being High Regenerationn (most likely, at least).

Either way, I've rambled long enough as I always do . Here's the TL;DR.

- Slight tier downgrade for late-game; the feat has been recalced to 773 Gigatons, or Large Island level+

- The early game, via multipliers, should be around 1/3 the strength of the late game, or around 258 Gigatons (Large Island level)

- The end game, via multipliers, should be around 3.3x the strength of the late game, or around 2.55 teratons (Small Country level)

- The Regenerationn for Revenants should be changed to (Mid normally, High with dispersal)

 

[ShivaShakti]

Good waifu

 

[Nier_Hitoshura]

I agree with this.

 

[Antvasima]

This is probably fine, but you should ask the active members listed in the Code Vei verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here.

 

[DarkGrath]

ah yes, I'll be sure to ask myself

Jokes aside, I have done so.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[SanguineStorms]

I can agree with this, but my only issue in regards to "Dispersal" is that in Lore it seems to suggest it takes quite a long time to respawn.

We know that after Jack shot the queenslayer in the heart he ended up at the cathedral of sacred blood for some reason.

(His Vestige is there which means he had to have came there at a point in time) from there he is killed by the Attendant.

Some time later eventually he revives and Io finds him.

So the specified time in which they reform isn't exactly clear.

 

[CatLangHuong]

I'll agree with this. Still, if Bamco release the next part of CV it will be much better cuz we still have too many things assumed. But the AP and regen should be accurate.

 

[DarkGrath]

I'm not sure what you mean.

There's 0 confirmation as far as I'm aware that the Queenslayer was killed by an Attendant of the Relics beyond simply the fact that his vestige was there, which doesn't confirm he died there, only that he was probably there at some point after becoming a revenant.

And at the beginning of the game, all we really know is that he has memory loss, which is at best mildly implied to be due to death and dispersal.

There's no confirmation that he died at the Cathedral of the Sacred blood, or that he was killed by an Attendant, or that it was what led to him being found by Io at the beginning of the game. So while you are correct that dispersal does cause self-BFR, there's not really any indication that it takes all that long. This is especially important to consider when you think about the Butterfly of Delirium; the whole point of that fight was that they had to kill the Butterfly quickly before it harmed the revenant or the human, but The Queenslayer can disperse and still continue to fight it before anything happens anyway. It almost certainly doesn't take that long.

 

[SanguineStorms]

I'm not sure what you mean.

There's 0 confirmation as far as I'm aware that the Queenslayer was killed by an Attendant of the Relics beyond simply the fact that his vestige was there, which doesn't confirm he died there, only that he was probably there at some point after becoming a revenant.

And at the beginning of the game, all we really know is that he has memory loss, which is at best mildly implied to be due to death and dispersal.

There's no confirmation that he died at the Cathedral of the Sacred blood, or that he was killed by an Attendant, or that it was what led to him being found by Io at the beginning of the game. So while you are correct that dispersal does cause self-BFR, there's not really any indication that it takes all that long. This is especially important to consider when you think about the Butterfly of Delirium; the whole point of that fight was that they had to kill the Butterfly quickly before it harmed the revenant or the human, but The Queenslayer can disperse and still continue to fight it before anything happens anyway. It almost certainly doesn't take that long.

Aruroa points out in her vestige that her attendant killed a revenant that was wandering about.

She scolds her Attendant for this. (Mind you the Cathedral of sacred blood is literally blocked off by a switch so no other revenants could have been wandering around)

The fact we find the Queenslayer's full missing memory there and no where else and he has no more.

Would have had to mean that he was the revenant her attendant killed and her attendant reports it to her.

Her attendant makes it clear that she would eliminate any trespassers that came in the vicinity.

Well He's the only tresspasser, his Vestige is found there and he had no other way of leaving there nor does he remember said place when he comes back to it.

This again points out to him being killed there since his memory is there.

 

[SanguineStorms]

Also if we take canon events into account it took the Queenslayer two days to revive from being killed by the Queen in her first attack when his squad gets butchered.

 

[DarkGrath]

You hear the voice of the revenant who was killed in the background in that cutscene, don't you? It's the same voice every time; no matter what you choose as your voice option, and it's always a male voice even when you're playing as a female character.

The Attendant didn't kill the Queenslayer. That was just another random revenant, and it's heavily implied in the context that the Attendant turned them to ash, which outright rules out the possibility of it being the Queenslayer.

The revenant the Attendant killed wasn't the Queenslayer. It was just a random nameless revenant.

Taking two days to revive from the Queen's attack isn't a reliable indicator either; they didn't revive from a mistle, they were only a human at the time, and they were turned into a revenant well after they died, which is what led to them reviving. That wasn't dispersal at all.

 

[DarkGrath]

Either way, there isn't really enough indication. The time for dispersal and Regenerationn is vague, so we don't really have much to go on for that. Not much point in debating it.

Do you agree with the rest?

 

[SanguineStorms]

You hear the voice of the revenant who was killed in the background in that cutscene, don't you? It's the same voice every time; no matter what you choose as your voice option, and it's always a male voice even when you're playing as a female character.

The Attendant didn't kill the Queenslayer. That was just another random revenant, and it's heavily implied in the context that the Attendant turned them to ash, which outright rules out the possibility of it being the Queenslayer.

The revenant the Attendant killed wasn't the Queenslayer. It was just a random nameless revenant.

Taking two days to revive from the Queen's attack isn't a reliable indicator either; they didn't revive from a mistle, they were only a human at the time, and they were turned into a revenant well after they died, which is what led to them reviving. That wasn't dispersal at all.

We were told by Louis Revenants lose their memories upon death.

The Vestiges we find are the places where other revenants fell in battle.

Your other part is also incorrect the queenslayer was not human around this time.

The unused cutscene of the opening which is in the data files very much makes it clear that he was already a revenant and he was in a previous unit.

He used a bayonet at first before switching to the sword.

Anyway Karen clearly says that the Queenslayer's heart got damaged after he died to the Queen the first time but then she remarks how hes a tough one.

Regardless the Queenslayer DID in fact die in lore at the cathedral of sacred blood and that cant be disputed.

We know for a fact that Vestiges are the memories Revenants lose upon death.

Louis says this and we even see it first hand when the Queenslayer dispatched Oliver.

Upon his death he left a Vestige.

And yeah I agree with what youre proposing.

 

[DarkGrath]

The Queenslayer was in a unit fighting against the Queen, but he explicitly wasn't a revenant at that point. He woke up in the bed after death because he had the BOR parasite implanted in him, and it took 2 days for his body to adjust to it and for him to wake up. The comment about him having a damaged heart is in reference to the fact that the heart has to still be intact on a corpse for the BOR parasite to reach it.

And yeah, I'm fine with saying that the Queenslayer died somewhere around the Cathedral of the Sacred Blood. But there's nothing to suggest that they were killed by an Attendant; that's the part I'm contentious with.

Either way, again, there's not much information here to properly debate, and it's pretty much inconsequential to the actual CRT. Maybe best to continue it on the Code Vein Discussion Thread if there's still an issue.

If you agree with the changes, then preferably at least one other staff member taking a gander at this would be enough to accept it, though if possible I'd also like to get Konaguna's input.

 

[Gojii-san]

Pretty sure that the revenant killed by the Attendant was killed closer to the entrance anyway. It is very unlikely that she would leave her Successor and the place where you find the vestige is far enough from Aurora that the Attendant would really have to go out of her way to kill the revenant there (after all, the godawful vertical section is located between Queenslayer vestige and the entrance), leaving the doggo's side. That's not something they do if they can help it.

One important thing to note with MC reforming is that they are shot through their heart, which normally turns people into ash. It is very likely that this caused them to take longer to reform than they would normally do.

It is very unlikely that you take more than an hour or two to rest at a mistle anyway given how the Lost are back afterwards and there's really nothing you and the gang would spend that time on, especially if you are short on time because an arrogant farm owner is very slowly making his way towards a big door.

Also, not all deaths or dispersals leave vestiges behind. You see plenty of revenants disperse without leaving anything behind, with the revenant who damages Oliver's mask and GXL Defender guy being the earliest examples. Successors don't leave vestiges behind upon being turned to ash either (except for Darkseeker's owner, who has both his Relic taken and leaves behind his vestige)

 

[DarkGrath]

Bump.

Again, I would like to get Konaguna's input, since he's been quite helpful with Code Vein in the past. But at the very least, another staff member looking over this would be good.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask a few of the following staff members to help out with giving input here if you wish:

Promestei, SomebodyData, The real cal howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Celestial Pegasus, Soldier Blue, Monarch Laciel, Saikou The Lewd King, DarkDragonMedeus, AKM sama, Wokista, Ultima Reality, Mr. Bambu, Gemmysaur, Theglassman12, Qawsedf234, Crabwhale, The Calaca, ByAsura, GyroNutz, ShiroyashaGinSa, The Wright Way, Ricsi-viragosi, Ogbunabali, Moritzva

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This seems fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks for helping out.

 

[DarkGrath]

Thank you.

It's quite a bit too late over here for me to be handling verse-wide edits right now, but tomorrow (or, technically, later today) when I wake up, I'll handle applying the revisions.

EDIT: I slept a bit longer than I thought I would... or what's reasonable . Jokes aside, I'll get to the edits now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[DarkGrath]

I'm pretty sure all the edits have now been applied. I will close this.