Code Geass: Lelouch of the Revisions

[Promestein]

I am burdened by sorrow - one look at our Code Geass pages will let you know that they just straight-up suck and are bad. Virtually nothing was calced, all stats were based off of bewildering assumptions, and despite many of the weapons used by mechs being way stronger than them, they're all scaled up to that like that makes any amount of sense whatsoever. So here I am to change things after rewatching the original two seasons of the anime.

Now, this isn't all the materials canon to this continuity - there's Akito the Exiled, Oz the Reflection, and Renya of Darkness. I plan to watch / read as much of these as I can manage in the future, but for now, this revision is based off the anime. Look forward to revisions in the future. Also of note is the sequel film Lelouch of the Re;surrection; this won't be handled in this thread, as Lelouch of the Re;surrection, and the upcoming Z of the Recapture, take place in an alternate continuity and follow a series of recap films with the plot altered. I'd say they still scale to the original materials given the similarities in virtually everything, but they'd need separate pages.

Let's get started.

General Calculations and Statistics

While I haven't gotten everything I'd like to get calculated calculated, we now actually have calcs to go off for our Knightmares and also for Suzaku.

• Lelouch's Burai tackles Cornelia's Gloucester through a wall. 8-C ~ High 8-C
  • The Burai is a second-rate, knockoff Fourth Generation Knightmare Frame easily outclassed by virtually every other KMF in the series, so every KMF goes and scales up from this, to varying degrees.
• Gawain's Hadron Cannons melt Gun-Ru. At least High 8-C
  • Hadron Cannons oneshot basically everything, and in this case, melt a bunch of Gun-Ru.
• Suzaku avoids turret fire. Superhuman
  • I'm pretty sure this scales to a number of people on foot (Suzaku, cyborg Jeremiah, Xingke, Bismarck, Sayoko) and all Knightmares would at least scale above this, but I'd prefer to get better feats for them...

These calcs can't be used for the current pages.

• Alice makes a big fuckoff crater.
  • This is from an alternate continuity spinoff, Nightmare of Nunnally. Would need its own pages. Nightmare of Nunnally apparently has some insane shit, too. Excited to read that.
• The FLEIJA blows up a lot of Tokyo Settlement.
  • The FLEIJA completely erases matter and leaves nothing behind, so at best this is a huge lowball and at worst it's uncalcable. The size of the blast is also stated in canon, so pixel scaling is unnecessary, but it's not calcable so.

These feats are uncalced but I can make the revision work without them. I don't believe all of them are necessarily calcable but I'll bring them to attention once more before getting this underway. Fully listed here.

• Lancelot dodging shrapnel here and here. (Episode 8)
• The VARIS clears a huge path through a forest and a bunch of stone. (Episode 11)
• The Lancelot Conquista’s Hadron Blaster blows off the Guren’s arm and disperses a cloud. (R2, Episode 6)
• The Baryon Cannon parts some clouds at an unknown level of power. (R2, Episode 10)

The Specific

For the pages currently existing...

C.C.

• I have absolutely no idea where the High regen statement comes from. It seems like an assumption based on the fact that FLEIJA probably can't kill them, but there's no statements about that even if we all know it's true. The best regen feats C.C. has shown are Mid, so I'd give her At least Mid, likely higher.
  • In Lelouch of the Re;surrection, it's stated that Code bearers regenerate by replacing lost body parts with copies from C's World. This isn't in the original continuity but it's probably still the case. That being said it doesn't change anything really. It's sorta like Scion's regen, though, which is cool.
• I have no idea where statements regarding Code bearers being unbound by life, death, souls, etcetera come from. We know they're immune to Geass, but we also know that C's World can kill them by assimilating them into the Collective Unconsciousness, so saying they're unbound by these concepts seems...

Damocles

• Even if FLEIJAs were calcable, the Damocles' FLEIJA have ten times more range than the one that nuked Tokyo. That being said, its AP should either be Unknown or based off the explosion size.
• It's 3 kilometers long, so... is 8-A reasonable for that? Blaze Luminous would be higher to some unknown degree.

This moves on us to the main dish... well, not really, we have a lot of missing pages so there's actually minimal revisions and mostly just... additions that I'll have to make.

Knightmares

• Fourth Generation
  • Burai(Lelouch)
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level (Given that the 8-C end is the low-end and more safe than definitely more sensible than High 8-C)
    • Speed: At least Superhuman
• Fifth Generation
  • Sutherland(Jeremiah and a lot of other people)
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level (Easily superior to the Burai)
    • Speed: At least Superhuman, likely at least Supersonic (Other Fifth Generation frames, like the Gekka, can fight against the Lancelot without being completely outpaced. That being said the Sutherland is worse than these, just not completely outclassed).
• Seventh Generation
  • Lancelot(Suzaku)
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level (Can easily take out groups of Fifth Generation frames), higher with the VARIS and Maser Vibration Swords.
    • Speed: At least Supersonic(Faster than a fighter jet).
      • This is from Episode 20 of R1.
    • Durability: At least Building level, at least Large Building level with Blaze Luminous (Briefly held back a Hadron Cannon shot).
  • Guren(Kallen)
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level (Comparable to the Lancelot), higher with the Radiant Wave Surger (Can block and destroy the Lancelot's MVS and VARIS shots, and boiled enough water to cause a steam explosion that then caused a massive landslide).
    • Speed: At least Supersonic (Comparable to the Lancelot).
    • Durability: At least Building level
  • Gawain(Lelouch)
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level (Can easily dismember a Sutherland using its Slash Harkens, but is outclassed by other Seventh Generation Knightmare Frames in melee), at least Large Building level with Hadron Cannons (Melted a bunch of Gun-ru, easily).
    • Speed: At least Superhuman, likely at least Supersonic (Slow in melee and easily outsped even by a Gloucester, but still capable of holding its own to some degree).
    • Lifting Strength: Class 100 (Can lift and pull around the nearly 70-ton Siegfried. This scales to all the other 7th Gens but I don't want to list it everywhere).
    • Durability: At least Building level
  • Siegfried (Jeremiah, V.V.) I know this isn't a KMF shut up it's still in this ballpark
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level (Should be comparable to Seventh Generation Knightmare Frames, can easily overpower and throw around the Gawain)
    • Speed: At least Supersonic (Likely comparable to the Lancelot).
    • Durability: At least Building level, at least Large Building level with electromagnetic shielding (Can deflect Hadron Cannon shots).
  • Sutherland Sieg (Jeremiah)
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level (Comparable to the Siegfried, with a presumably high-performance Sutherland contained within), at least Large Building level+, likely higher with the Hypervelocity Cannon (Can briefly push back the Stark Hadron Cannon, which is made up of four Hadron Cannons firing as one).
    • Speed: At least Supersonic
    • Durability: At least Building level, higher with Radiant Wave Shielding (I'm pretty sure the Radiant Wave Shielding feats are not good enough here, sadly).
  • Guren Flight-Enabled(Kallen)
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level (Comparable to the Lancelot Conquista, which was easily overpowering it beforehand), higher with the Radiant Wave Surger (Stronger than before and capable of matching the Baryon Cannon at 40% power).
    • Speed: At least Supersonic
    • Durability: At least Building level, higher with Radiant Wave Shielding
  • Lancelot Conquista(Suzaku)
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level, higher with the VARIS and Maser Vibration Swords, at least Large Building level with Hadron Blaster (Comparable to a Hadron Cannon and capable of dispersing a cloud).
    • Speed: At least Supersonic
    • Durability: At least Building level, at least Large Building level with Blaze Luminous
  • Shinkirou (Lelouch)
    • Attack Potency: At least Building level, at least Large Building level with Hadron Blasters and Zero Beam (Can seemingly punch through a ship's Blaze Luminous and completely destroy it, similarly to the Baryon Cannon).
    • Speed: At least Supersonic
    • Durability: At least Building level, at least Large Building level+, likely higher with Absolute Defense System (Can block the Stark Hadron Cannon, which is made up of four Hadron Cannons firing as one, at point-blank range for an extended period of time).
• Ninth Generation
  • Lancelot Albion(Suzaku)
    • Attack Potency: At least Large Building level (Can physically match the Guren Seiten, which shattered the Conquista's Blaze Luminous bare-handed), higher with the VARIS, Hadron Blaster, and Maser Vibration Swords (Cut Galahad and its own MVS, Excalibur, in half. Excalibur could instantly cut through the Absolute Defense System when wielded in two halves by Gino).
    • Speed: At least Supersonic, likely higher (Can destroy entire armies of Seventh Generation Knightmares before they can even react)
    • Durability: At least Large Building level, City Block level with Blaze Luminous (Can block the Guren Seiten's Radiant Wave Surger, which can block both of the Albion's Maser Vibration Swords at once).
  • Guren Seiten(Kallen)
    • Attack Potency: At least Large Building level (Shattered the Conquista's Blaze Luminous bare-handed), higher with MVS Fork Knife (Can clash with the Albion's MVS), City Block level with Radiant Wave Surger (Can match and push back both of the Albion's MVS at once).
    • Speed: At least Supersonic, likely higher
    • Durability: At least Large Building level, City Block level with Radiant Wave Shielding

And Lelouch should have a optional equipment / prep key with at least the Damocles and FLEIJA. And also, preferably, his various Sakuradite bombs, from the suicide bomb that would've killed him, Suzaku, and Kallen (pretty sure just by distance between them it'd be 9-A). Blah blah blah... I can whip out more sources as necessary but I'm tired and just want to get this out there after I spent a month waiting for and trying to get calcs.

Thanks for all the help with calcs.

 

[ShivaShakti]

His intelligence should be downgraded due to his quite peculiar Chess Performances.

 

[Moritzva]

I would also like to petition revising Lelouch's intelligence to be "Below Average" due to his clear and utter ineptitude in chess.

 

[Promestein]

Better downgrade Suzaku's too.

Speaking of Suzaku he should also get a speed buff when his Geass is active and maybe some other stuff for it...?

 

[Promestein]

I went and read Nightmare of Nunnally really quick. What a surreal experience! Maybe I'll make pages for it later.

The most notable thing there for this thread is Cornelia referring to a similar weapon as the Raikou's shrapnel as being four times the speed of sound.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

These look good

 

[Tsotso]

The revision seems solid, unlike the portrayal of chess in the series.

Spoiler: iF tHe KiNg DoEsN't LeAd HoW cAn He ExPeCt HiS sUbOrDiNaTeS tO fOlLoW???

Jokes aside, actually why is Lelouch at Extraordinary Genius?

Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius. Lelouch is extremely intelligent, capable of calculating the optimal positions for the Absolute Defense System, which was specially designed for his use, as he's being attacked. He also calculated the exact environmental data of his surroundings to use the F.L.E.I.J.A. Eliminator in nineteen seconds. He is a master manipulator, capable of perfectly predicting the actions and words of others and forming complex strategies under short notice. He is capable of rapidly adapting and forming new strategies during combat, though he begins to crack the closer he gets to defeat.

"Lelouch is extremely intelligent, capable of calculating the optimal positions for the Absolute Defense System, which was specially designed for his use"
- We don't know how difficult that actually is to do and it was specifically designed for his use which makes it even more vague.

"as he's being attacked."
- That's not an intelligence feat. That's a composure feat.

"He also calculated the exact environmental data of his surroundings to use the F.L.E.I.J.A. Eliminator in nineteen seconds."
- Again, we don't have any idea of how difficult those calculations are to perform.

"He is a master manipulator,"
- That doesn't necessarily make someone an extraordinary genius. Light Yagami is also a master manipulator yet he's only genius.

"capable of perfectly predicting the actions and words of others"
- The two people whose actions he predicted with the most accuracy were a mentally unstable angry guy with predictable outbursts and Lelouch's brother who Lelouch knows very well.

"and forming complex strategies under short notice."
- Doesn't necessarily make him extraordinary genius, just a really good strategist.

"He is capable of rapidly adapting and forming new strategies during combat, though he begins to crack the closer he gets to defeat."
- That's just good adaptability. Not necessarily extraordinary genius level.

 

[Promestein]

I'll be working on revising that stuff too, don't worry.

 

[LordGinSama]

Looks good.

As for hax, in particular what does the verses Mind hax done via Geass what's the potency? I've heard talk of 2-A but I'm not sure where that came from.

 

[Promestein]

Lelouch's fully matured Geass is able to command God / the Collective Consciousness / C's World / Eden Vital / whatever, which is the collective human consciousness. In Nightmare of Nunnally, it is established that manipulation of C's World through Geass could affect all other universes, of which there are infinite.

 

[LordGinSama]

Isn't Nightmare of Nunnally set in an alternative timelime? Also with the new Mind Manipulation standards I'm pretty sure "infinite range." was dismissed as now we scale Mind Manipulation by layers of resistance and such.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, but it's the same 'God' they're both interacting with, and the infinite timelines Nunnally sees explicitly shows scenes from the original anime.

It'd definitely not be infinite range, he's just affecting an abstract entity that happens to be 2-A.

 

[Moritzva]

This thread has actually made me think about how we tier the intelligence of a scene meant to be skilled/smart and seem that way to those in the scene, but are written or portrayed in the most objectively braindead and stupid way possible, such as with those god-awful chess scenes.

 

[Promestein]

Not like Lelouch is an idiot in every department. Best a topic tackled elsewhere.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Nightmare of Nunnally has some other abilities such as Portal Creation, Time Stop, and speed amps up to Infinity (Though it probably doesn't meet the current standard for Infinite Speed, but it allows Alice to move wthin Rolo's time stop)

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

If my young self see this, he will trashtalking and goes nuts over this due of his sickness over Lelouch wank lel

But that man is gone, so i'm rightfully agree with this

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

I went and read Nightmare of Nunnally really quick. What a surreal experience! Maybe I'll make pages for it later.

Have your read Renya of Darkness yet? It seems to be a Prequel of the Main series and has.... interesting Lore for both Code and Geass.

 

[Promestein]

Nightmare of Nunnally has some other abilities such as Portal Creation, Time Stop, and speed amps up to Infinity (Though it probably doesn't meet the current standard for Infinite Speed, but it allows Alice to move wthin Rolo's time stop)

I mean, I'd figure it'd be Infinite, it's used once so it's not like anything contradicts that. If it's not Infinite it's just infinitely increasing speed, but she's able to move in 0 seconds, so it'd probably be Infinite. This thread isn't about Nightmare of Nunnally though, besides C's World being 2-A.

Have your read Renya of Darkness yet? It seems to be a Prequel of the Main series and has.... interesting Lore for both Code and Geass.

No. If it's relevant to the thread share it with sources.

 

[Moritzva]

Not like Lelouch is an idiot in every department. Best a topic tackled elsewhere.

Still relevant as a general topic. Someone should make a thread about it.

A mild intelligence downgrade does sound reasonable for Lelouch specifically, though, all jokes aside.

 

[AKM sama]

The FLEIJA completely erases matter and leaves nothing behind

Was this supposed to be literal? It's been a while since I last watched the anime but I thought they were referring to the huge AP of FLEIJA, like it destroys everything in its range. Not like it has matter erasure or something. I may be wrong though, I don't remember very well.

Rest everything looks good to me.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, it erases the oxygen in the air, even, and creates a vacuum, which is why ships and Knightmares are pulled towards the blast after it goes off.

It's weird for tiering, though. People said to just slap Unknown on it? Which feels a bit weird for something with a very explicit range of destruction.

 

[Promestein]

Here's an example page. Just to show what the pages will have and how they'll be changed. If there's any issues, let me know.

 

[AKM sama]

The page looks good. Unknown is fine if we don't have any better option. The other properties of FLIEJA are covered in abilities and range.

 

[Promestein]

I'm gonna start going ahead with this, a lot of people assented. Some things aren't calced but I'll make do.

 

[Promestein]

Unfortunately the Hadron Cannon feat currently calced isn't as impressive as before.

I need to get the cloud feat calced, this is way too close to the base Knightmare stats.

 

[Promestein]

For whoever still cares, I've finished updating all the currently existing pages.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. I also agree with this revision btw.

Since it is finished, I will close this thread.