CMF Garou’s Profile Some Issues

[Second22]

Key​

Currently, if we read from the profile as we understand it, CMF Garou has two keys: Awakened Garou and Parallel Timeline Awakened Garou. It is clear that after Garou copied Saitama's Serious Series Punch, it made Garou as strong as Saitama from that point onward, which is not true. Garou is as strong as Saitama only when he uses Saitama Mode. Let's look at the reasons.

After being knocked out to Io, notice Garou's face. He is not in Saitama Mode, which makes him unable to react Saitama speed. From the key in the profile, if he were truly as strong as Saitama, why was he blitzed? That doesn't make much sense cuz, according to the growth graph of these two characters, At start their power levels shouldn't differ that much. Which means that the graph we see occurred while only Garou was using Saitama Mode.

While Garou wasn't using Saitama Mode when fighting Saitama, which highlights the difference in their strength and speed. Garou tried using various techniques to defeat Saitama, but it was futile. In the end, he reverted to using Saitama Mode to mimic his strength and moves. Which make Garou equal to Saitama and make him genuinely injured.

Therefore, he shouldn't have the keys Awakened Garou and Parallel Timeline Awakened Garou. We must change them to Awakened Garou and Saitama Mode instead or whatever If there's something better than this, making it more straightforward. The Awakened Garou key should simply scale from Blast, which includes Garou on Io when he isn't in Saitama Mode.

And the scan of Garou using Saitama Mode for the first time should be under the Saitama Mode key, not Awakened Garou as it is in the current profile.

Multi-Solar System level (Capable of overloading Blast's smaller portals. His attack was compared to a real Gamma Ray Burst[1]which produces at least 1 foe or 10^44 joules of energy and the strongest GRB being 8.8 kiloFoe. Copied Saitama's Consecutive Normal Punches and matched it blow for blow, an action that scratched him)

There might be a question whether Garou can withstand attacks from Saitama when he's not in Saitama Mode and directly scale from Saitama when using his serious punches? Certainly not. Throughout the series, Saitama's serious punches have never yielded similar destructive results, and Saitama has already promised Tareo not to kill Garou.

In conclusion, Saitama has significantly superior power and speed compared to CMF Garou. Garou wouldn't stand a chance against Saitama if not in his Saitama mode.

Notes/Explanations​

Garou only acquired this ability as he was dying and only after copying Saitama. When making a match with Parallel Timeline Garou, the ability should be specified as being useable or not for the thread. If it is included, the agreed characterization would that he would only use the move if he was Bloodlusted or as a last resort action in a hopeless combat situation

Huhh, It's quite strange. Garou clearly stated that Saitama copied his technique, but why does Note say that Garou copied Saitama. Garou might can't rewind time like Saitama, cuz he just might know that God will reclaim his power.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I disagree with this CRT.

Garou has stated that he is standing at the same endless horizon of power as Saitama is and that the techniques he copies get honed to perception at an amazing speed –this statement comes when he's not in Mode: Saitama, i.e., the power is not exclusive of his Mode: Saitama–, additionally, his whole purpose was to copy and refine his full power to win. He was trying, not just to copy Saitama, but to improve that strength and techniques to reach "perfection".

I must also mention that he seemingly used consecutive normal punches when fighting Blast, which further proves techniques not being exclusive of that mode.

Anyway, this

There might be a question whether Garou can withstand attacks from Saitama when he's not in Saitama Mode and directly scale from Saitama when using his serious punches? Certainly not. Throughout the series, Saitama's serious punches have never yielded similar destructive results, and Saitama has already promised Tareo not to kill Garou.

In conclusion, Saitama has significantly superior power and speed compared to CMF Garou. Garou wouldn't stand a chance against Saitama if not in his Saitama mode.

Is wrong. Garou explicitely mentioned the strength of Saitama's punch in I.o.. He wouldn't say a punch is strong if it was infinitely weaker than a punch he previously withstood in Mode: Saitama.

All in all, the graph itself entirely debunks this CRT. If you check the panels of the graph, you'd notice that, previous to the first 2 points that appear in the sequence previous to the explanation of Saitama's growth there are only 2 points. The points clearly indicate the moments in which Garou copied Saitama in both Saitama's and Garou's graph (self explanatory in context. Garou matches the strength, a point appears, Saitama punches, growth happens, Garou matches the strength again, a point appears, and so on).

Those 2 points have to mean, by context, the instances in which Garou copied Saitama's consecutive normal punches and Saitama's serious punch respectively (there are no other instances of copy). If you look in-between, you'd notice that Garou's power graph does not drop down. It, in fact, keeps growing up.

If what you said was correct: the power dropped down between each copy, then the graph would potray it.

That, added to the other arguments, is enough reasons for me to disagree

 

[Recon1511]

Disagree, will elaborate later.

 

[MrTayman616]

I disagree with everything.

Saitama grows constantly which is why he's capable of blitzing garou after he copied him and turned to normal mode. Garou also states before the fight that he could win if he copies his strength, shows it more that it doesn't disappear, since why would you not copy him if you believe that's your only chance to win.

the growth panel seemingly shows their growth from chapter 167 last page to the moment of sneeze. which he believes he has to copy him endlessly until he overcomes him.

for the Notes part. Garou's technique wasn't perfect, Saitama copied garou and perfected it. for garou's technique to work, he has to copy saitama. Garou isn't scared of dying because of God, he'd use it if he could before as well. he says he wasn't capable of it.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Huhh, It's quite strange. Garou clearly stated that Saitama copied his technique, but why does Note say that Garou copied Saitama. Garou might can't rewind time like Saitama, cuz he just might know that God will reclaim his power.

I forgot to answer this (made another comment so I can cite it).

Afaik, the note comes since Garou ended up time travelling (even if it was as a soul) to the past, so the profile takes "peak" Future Cosmic Garou, with him knowing this ability too and giving as reasoning of his knowledge that he could perform this due to Saitama perfectioning the technique and using it in front of him.

If I'm honest, I'm not a fan of this, neither. But I'll hear what other people has to say first

 

[Recon1511]

I forgot to answer this (made another comment so I can cite it).

Afaik, the note comes since Garou ended up time travelling (even if it was as a soul) to the past, so the profile takes "peak" Future Cosmic Garou, with him knowing this ability too and giving as reasoning of his knowledge that he could perform this due to Saitama perfectioning the technique and using it in front of him.

If I'm honest, I'm not a fan of this, neither. But I'll hear what other people has to say first

I mean he did learn the technique and used it but given the circumstances the note specifies that the one making the VS thread can decide wheter to grant this ability to Garou or not

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

My problem with that is that when he learnt it he was already being turned to sand by God, and the profile takes it as if he was in peak condition and capable to use it.

I'm sure if a character loses an arm and then learns an skill, we don't put in the profile that his two-armed self can use that skill

 

[MrTayman616]

My problem with that is that when he learnt it he was already being turned to sand by God, and the profile takes it as if he was in peak condition and capable to use it.

i think that's why there is "you need to tell if it's usable or not".

 

[Recon1511]

My problem with that is that when he learnt it he was already being turned to sand by God, and the profile takes it as if he was in peak condition and capable to use it.

It would be an hypothetical "peak" Garou that, in the context of a VS battle, wouldn't be turned to salt by God

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

But he was already being turned into sand when he learnt the technique.

I'm sure if a character loses an arm and then learns an skill, we don't put in the profile that his two-armed self can use that skill

 

[Recon1511]

That's not a comparable situation at all.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

It's worse.

Garou was literally dying when he learnt the ability to travel back in time. More than half of his body was turned into salt already. Garou has this ability because he copied it from Saitama, but when he copied it from Saitama, he was already dying.

This is not a hypothetical Garou who can travel back in time without God killing him before he could, because he can't time travel by himself. This is "a hypothetical Garou that copied Saitama travelling back, but instead of being dying when he did, he was completely fine", which does not appear in the manga at all.

If what was wanted is "a hypothetical Garou that travels back in time without God killing him", then the note should be changed to reflect that. Though I also disagree with that, since Garou said he couldn't pull the technique himself. And God didn't kill Garou because Garou was trying to travel back in time, but because he taught Saitama how to, betraying God.

 

[Recon1511]

Make a CRT for that if you wish, it isn't at all what you're describing.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I mean, a change in the note is part of this CRT, so I don't really need to make a different one since it's already being treated here

 

[Second22]

I disagree with this CRT.

Garou has stated that he is standing at the same endless horizon of power as Saitama is and that the techniques he copies get honed to perception at an amazing speed –this statement comes when he's not in Mode: Saitama, i.e., the power is not exclusive of his Mode: Saitama–, additionally, his whole purpose was to copy and refine his full power to win. He was trying, not just to copy Saitama, but to improve that strength and techniques to reach "perfection".

We should consider each mode in the fight. The reason Garou said that is because he just copied Saitama. And Garou has never been able to fight Saitama evenly when he isn't in Saitama mode.

I must also mention that he seemingly used consecutive normal punches when fighting Blast, which further proves techniques not being exclusive of that mode.

There's nowhere that says it's a Normal Punch. He just kept throwing continuous punches, and in this image, he uses only Nuclear Fusion and Gravity Knuckle.

Is wrong. Garou explicitely mentioned the strength of Saitama's punch in I.o.. He wouldn't say a punch is strong if it was infinitely weaker than a punch he previously withstood in Mode: Saitama.

Then why did he need to use Saitama mode while he was on Io? If they weren't supposed to be that far apart at that time, why did he still need Saitama mode? What's strange about that? At the beginning on Io, Garou couldn't keep up with saitama speed at all. He even said himself that he needed to copy Saitama again. What does that mean? It means that Garou, when not in Saitama mode, can't match Saitama in strength and speed. But after he copied Saitama, he was able to punch him and make him bleed from the mouth immediately. That graph is the reason that contradicts your argument. At that time, the graph shouldn't have diverged, but why was Saitama still far superior to Garou? Anyway, Saitama never intended to kill Garou while they were on Io because of his promise to Terao. Whether he went all out or not doesn't change this. Saitama just wanted to show the difference in their levels and only went all out when Garou used Saitama mode. At the very least, he threw punches that were enough to keep Garou from dying.

Those 2 points have to mean, by context, the instances in which Garou copied Saitama's consecutive normal punches and Saitama's serious punch respectively (there are no other instances of copy). If you look in-between, you'd notice that Garou's power graph does not drop down. It, in fact, keeps growing up.

If what you said was correct: the power dropped down between each copy, then the graph would potray it.

This is irrelevant. The graph only shows when Garou started using Saitama mode and he continued using it. What do you mean by the graph dropped? He just kept copying Saitama, and by the time he finished copying, Saitama had already moved to another spot. There shouldn't be any argument about the graph dropped because the functioning of the graph doesn't change.

Garou was literally dying when he learnt the ability to travel back in time. More than half of his body was turned into salt already. Garou has this ability because he copied it from Saitama, but when he copied it from Saitama, he was already dying.

Where does it say that he copied Saitama? Nowhere. He clearly stated that Saitama should copy him and surpass it. There's no mention anywhere that he copied Saitama. In the end, he just wanted to send Saitama to the past by copying him, nothing else. The idea that Garou copied Saitama is just a baseless assumption. The reason he turned to dust is because God reclaimed his power, which is clearly stated in the manga.

If what was wanted is "a hypothetical Garou that travels back in time without God killing him", then the note should be changed to reflect that. Though I also disagree with that, since Garou said he couldn't pull the technique himself. And God didn't kill Garou because Garou was trying to travel back in time, but because he taught Saitama how to, betraying God.

I never said he could time travel if God didn't reclaim his power, and I never mentioned that. Correct, Garou couldn't perfect the technique, so he just made Saitama copy his technique and surpass it. There's nothing more to it, right?

 

[MrTayman616]

We should consider each mode in the fight. The reason Garou said that is because he just copied Saitama. And Garou has never been able to fight Saitama evenly when he isn't in Saitama mode.

There's nowhere that says it's a Normal Punch. He just kept throwing continuous punches, and in this image, he uses only Nuclear Fusion and Gravity Knuckle.

Then why did he need to use Saitama mode while he was on Io? If they weren't supposed to be that far apart at that time, why did he still need Saitama mode? What's strange about that? At the beginning on Io, Garou couldn't keep up with saitama speed at all. He even said himself that he needed to copy Saitama again. What does that mean? It means that Garou, when not in Saitama mode, can't match Saitama in strength and speed. But after he copied Saitama, he was able to punch him and make him bleed from the mouth immediately. That graph is the reason that contradicts your argument. At that time, the graph shouldn't have diverged, but why was Saitama still far superior to Garou? Anyway, Saitama never intended to kill Garou while they were on Io because of his promise to Terao. Whether he went all out or not doesn't change this. Saitama just wanted to show the difference in their levels and only went all out when Garou used Saitama mode. At the very least, he threw punches that were enough to keep Garou from dying.

This is irrelevant. The graph only shows when Garou started using Saitama mode and he continued using it. What do you mean by the graph dropped? He just kept copying Saitama, and by the time he finished copying, Saitama had already moved to another spot. There shouldn't be any argument about the graph dropped because the functioning of the graph doesn't change.

Where does it say that he copied Saitama? Nowhere. He clearly stated that Saitama should copy him and surpass it. There's no mention anywhere that he copied Saitama. In the end, he just wanted to send Saitama to the past by copying him, nothing else. The idea that Garou copied Saitama is just a baseless assumption. The reason he turned to dust is because God reclaimed his power, which is clearly stated in the manga.

I never said he could time travel if God didn't reclaim his power, and I never mentioned that. Correct, Garou couldn't perfect the technique, so he just made Saitama copy his technique and surpass it. There's nothing more to it, right?

the reason garou couldn't fight well is because saitama grows + possible saitama holding back while they were on earth.

garou copied the exact lvl. but then stopped copying him while saitama still continued to grow, making saitama superior to garou after garou copied him.

also garou's statements shows that he holds his power after he stops copying as well

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Then why did he need to use Saitama mode while he was on Io? If they weren't supposed to be that far apart at that time, why did he still need Saitama mode? What's strange about that? At the beginning on Io, Garou couldn't keep up with saitama speed at all. He even said himself that he needed to copy Saitama again. What does that mean? It means that Garou, when not in Saitama mode, can't match Saitama in strength and speed. But after he copied Saitama, he was able to punch him and make him bleed from the mouth immediately. That graph is the reason that contradicts your argument. At that time, the graph shouldn't have diverged, but why was Saitama still far superior to Garou? Anyway, Saitama never intended to kill Garou while they were on Io because of his promise to Terao. Whether he went all out or not doesn't change this. Saitama just wanted to show the difference in their levels and only went all out when Garou used Saitama mode. At the very least, he threw punches that were enough to keep Garou from dying.

Again, this does not debunk any of the points I've given:

1. Garou still noticed the strength of a punch from Saitama he withstood without Mode: Saitama, i.e., Saitama did not drop his strength massively. Garou also noticed Saitama was showing his strength in that part of the fight.
2. He said he'd copy and surpass his original power
3. He said he was on the same endless horizon of power that Saitama is in, and that Saitama would lose due to him (Garou) honing his techniques to perfection. If Garou needed Mode: Saitama to match him (a mode in which he as not shown to use any martial art), then he'd not mention this, let alone that he'd refine Saitama's strength (you can't refine something that you can only access with one mode), he would not say he's at the same horizon that Saitama is, etc.

This is irrelevant. The graph only shows when Garou started using Saitama mode and he continued using it. What do you mean by the graph dropped?

The graph shows Garou's growth, with each point representing a copy.

If Garou copied a strength of 100, then dropped to 10 because he stopped using said strength, then the graph would potray that. But it doesn't.

Anyway, I noticed something, and that is that, previous to the fight (previous to the Y axis, previous to Garou copying Saitama) the 2 lines representing Saitama and Garou already were matching, yet Saitama was stomping Garou. I guess that difference, although unnoticeable by the level they were, still was enough for the former to stomp the latter.

He just kept copying Saitama, and by the time he finished copying, Saitama had already moved to another spot. There shouldn't be any argument about the graph dropped because the functioning of the graph doesn't change

I'm talking about the points before the exponential growth came. I.e., the 2 first ones, with the 1st one most likely being the copy of normal punches and the 2nd one of the first serious punch.

Where does it say that he copied Saitama? Nowhere. He clearly stated that Saitama should copy him and surpass it. There's no mention anywhere that he copied Saitama. In the end, he just wanted to send Saitama to the past by copying him, nothing else. The idea that Garou copied Saitama is just a baseless assumption. The reason he turned to dust is because God reclaimed his power, which is clearly stated in the manga.

I never said he could time travel if God didn't reclaim his power, and I never mentioned that. Correct, Garou couldn't perfect the technique, so he just made Saitama copy his technique and surpass it. There's nothing more to it, right?

i agree with this. Though Garou did end up performing the time travel, even if as a soul. People used as reasoning that he could achieve this feat by copying Saitama.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

https://imgur.com/gallery/PzEtfAL

In Chapter 167, he did straightup say he have to copied Saitama limitlessly so yesh

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Pretty sure the limitlessly part was a mistranslation

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Any evidence to claim it is a mistranslation? Otherwise, we have to find other translations in that case

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I remember hearing people knowledgeable in Japanese, don't remember if here or in discord, saying that the kanji for limitless was not present in the raws.

Though yeah, an official translation would be better

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I remember hearing people knowledgeable in Japanese, don't remember if here or in discord, saying that the kanji for limitless was not present in the raws.

Though yeah, an official translation would be better

So hearsay? I think it needs a double check regarding that part

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

That's why I said that a translation from someone of the team would be better. I do not know Japanese so cannot confirm that

 

[DavidTPPM]

Honestly that note is all that I'm confused about here. Wasn't a huge point over the time travel and the whole point of why Saitama had to copy it that Garou could in fact NOT use it? Why does he have it?

 

[Second22]

Again, this does not debunk any of the points I've given:

The point is that you didn't answer what I asked at all. Why does Garou have to copy Saitama even though at the time they just arrived at Io Moon, their powers weren't far apart at all? Because if the graph starts from Serious Punch^2, it wouldn't make sense.

Garou still noticed the strength of a punch from Saitama he withstood without Mode: Saitama, i.e., Saitama did not drop his strength massively. Garou also noticed Saitama was showing his strength in that part of the fight.

Anyway, Garou isn't as strong as Saitama, so he copies Saitama. If he were as strong as Saitama, why would he need to copy? Why wouldn't he use his own abilities or martial arts to defeat Saitama? Because he can't. When he's not in Saitama mode, he can't fight on equal footing with Saitama.

He said he'd copy and surpass his original power

That would also be the case when he is in Saitama mode. If you say that after copying, he is not in Saitama mode and is as strong as before, why couldn't he fight Saitama at all in the beginning on Io Moon?

He said he was on the same endless horizon of power that Saitama is in, and that Saitama would lose due to him (Garou) honing his techniques to perfection. If Garou needed Mode: Saitama to match him (a mode in which he as not shown to use any martial art), then he'd not mention this, let alone that he'd refine Saitama's strength (you can't refine something that you can only access with one mode), he would not say he's at the same horizon that Saitama is, etc.

Tbh, this isn't clearly specified regarding the case when he's not in Saitama mode. Garou can still use various abilities when he's in Saitama mode, like the portal. We should consider what we see. Garou can't fight Saitama at all when he's not in Saitama mode. This fact doesn't change. I just want a counterargument on this point.

The graph shows Garou's growth, with each point representing a copy.

If Garou copied a strength of 100, then dropped to 10 because he stopped using said strength, then the graph would potray that. But it doesn't.

Anyway, I noticed something, and that is that, previous to the fight (previous to the Y axis, previous to Garou copying Saitama) the 2 lines representing Saitama and Garou already were matching, yet Saitama was stomping Garou. I guess that difference, although unnoticeable by the level they were, still was enough for the former to stomp the latter.

I mean, the graph starts when he copies Saitama on Io Moon, not from the earlier period on Earth. Because the graph's starting point shows Saitama's strength equal to Garou's, which makes more sense. On Io, before he copied Saitama, he was clearly weaker than Saitama. Currently, the accepted idea on the site is that the graph starts after Serious Punch^2, but what we see is that Garou, when not in Saitama mode, is weaker than Saitama. He doesn't have the same strength as Saitama, unlike what the graph shows.

I'm talking about the points before the exponential growth came. I.e., the 2 first ones, with the 1st one most likely being the copy of normal punches and the 2nd one of the first serious punch.

As I mentioned above, that's correct. Normally, Saitama's Normal Punch that Garou copied in the beginning caused Saitama to get slightly injured, as shown in the manga. However, since it's part of Saitama Mode, I think it's more appropriate to separate it from that key.

the reason garou couldn't fight well is because saitama grows + possible saitama holding back while they were on earth.

garou copied the exact lvl. but then stopped copying him while saitama still continued to grow, making saitama superior to garou after garou copied him.

also garou's statements shows that he holds his power after he stops copying as well

It's impossible. The accepted graph starts after Serious Punch^2, at which point they had equal strength. It's impossible for Saitama to be holding back his power. If Blast hadn't intervened, Saitama would have already destroyed the Earth. Is that really holding back?

 

[MrTayman616]

The point is that you didn't answer what I asked at all. Why does Garou have to copy Saitama even though at the time they just arrived at Io Moon, their powers weren't far apart at all? Because if the graph starts from Serious Punch^2, it wouldn't make sense.

Anyway, Garou isn't as strong as Saitama, so he copies Saitama. If he were as strong as Saitama, why would he need to copy? Why wouldn't he use his own abilities or martial arts to defeat Saitama? Because he can't. When he's not in Saitama mode, he can't fight on equal footing with Saitama.

That would also be the case when he is in Saitama mode. If you say that after copying, he is not in Saitama mode and is as strong as before, why couldn't he fight Saitama at all in the beginning on Io Moon?

Tbh, this isn't clearly specified regarding the case when he's not in Saitama mode. Garou can still use various abilities when he's in Saitama mode, like the portal. We should consider what we see. Garou can't fight Saitama at all when he's not in Saitama mode. This fact doesn't change. I just want a counterargument on this point.

I mean, the graph starts when he copies Saitama on Io Moon, not from the earlier period on Earth. Because the graph's starting point shows Saitama's strength equal to Garou's, which makes more sense. On Io, before he copied Saitama, he was clearly weaker than Saitama. Currently, the accepted idea on the site is that the graph starts after Serious Punch^2, but what we see is that Garou, when not in Saitama mode, is weaker than Saitama. He doesn't have the same strength as Saitama, unlike what the graph shows.

As I mentioned above, that's correct. Normally, Saitama's Normal Punch that Garou copied in the beginning caused Saitama to get slightly injured, as shown in the manga. However, since it's part of Saitama Mode, I think it's more appropriate to separate it from that key.

It's impossible. The accepted graph starts after Serious Punch^2, at which point they had equal strength. It's impossible for Saitama to be holding back his power. If Blast hadn't intervened, Saitama would have already destroyed the Earth. Is that really holding back?

no? saitama is always growing, this has no counter argument or so. also the graph shows after each punch, garou equals him. it suits for after chapter 167 when he starts to copy him over and over. not when the start of the overall fight. it's not true and doesn't make sense at all as well. since it would mean garou copying saitama is not any better than garou's normal growth. which makes both of them the same. either way it would be true.

garou keeps the power after he copies.

 

[Second22]

Pretty sure the limitlessly part was a mistranslation

The point about the correct or incorrect translation of 'limitlessly' isn't necessary. In the end, Garou needed to copy Saitama cuz he couldn't fight Saitama.

 

[Second22]

no? saitama is always growing, this has no counter argument or so. also the graph shows after each punch, garou equals him. it suits for after chapter 167 when he starts to copy him over and over. not when the start of the overall fight. it's not true and doesn't make sense at all as well. since it would mean garou copying saitama is not any better than garou's normal growth. which makes both of them the same. either way it would be true.

garou keeps the power after he copies

His constant growth began to show a difference since Garou used Saitama mode to fight him for a while on Io, the graph began to reflect this growth. It's not that there was a difference in strength from the moment they arrived on Io Moon. Again, at the beginning of the graph, they were equally strong. That was when they had just arrived on Io Moon, but Garou was blitzed by Saitama immediately after they arrived.

 

[MrTayman616]

yeah, garou couldn't fight saitama so he had to copy him. but garou simply couldn't fight saitama because saitama grows. which he also calls him to be "endlessly" strong.

"どこまでも強ェ…‼" means something that continues forever or something that is very high.

the graph only shows after garou starts to copying saitama, end of chapter 167. also otherwise the graph wouldn't look like that at all.

garou believes his only chance to beat saitama is to copy him, which he thinks like that when he killed genos. which also shows when he copies someone, it lasts forverer

His constant growth began to show a difference since Garou used Saitama mode to fight him for a while on Io, the graph began to reflect this growth. It's not that there was a difference in strength from the moment they arrived on Io Moon. Again, at the beginning of the graph, they were equally strong. That was when they had just arrived on Io Moon, but Garou was blitzed by Saitama immediately after they arrived.

the graph didn't start after serious punch ^ 2. it starts after chapter 167 where garou says "strong, endlessly strong, in that case i'll copy him until i win" part.

 

[Second22]

the graph didn't start after serious punch ^ 2. it starts after chapter 167 where garou says "strong, endlessly strong, in that case i'll copy him until i win" part.

Whatever points you argue, LMAO, that's exactly what I'm trying to convey. The website accepts that the graph grows when they use Serious Punch^2, which I've been arguing about.

 

[MrTayman616]

Whatever points you argue, LMAO, that's exactly what I'm trying to convey. The website accepts that the graph grows when they use Serious Punch^2, which I've been arguing about.

ooooh. yeah ok that's true.

i thought your argument was "garou is only as strong as saitama if he copies him and stay in that copy mode".

 

[Second22]

yeah, garou couldn't fight saitama so he had to copy him. but garou simply couldn't fight saitama because saitama grows. which he also calls him to be "endlessly" strong.

"どこまでも強ェ…‼" means something that continues forever or something that is very high.

the graph only shows after garou starts to copying saitama, end of chapter 167. also otherwise the graph wouldn't look like that at all.

garou believes his only chance to beat saitama is to copy him, which he thinks like that when he killed genos. which also shows when he copies someone, it lasts forverer

Garou just realized it when he fought Saitama for a while. Saitama's initial growth isn't enough to see such a big difference in strength. Because as soon as Garou copied Saitama, they immediately had equal strength as shown in the graph.

 

[MrTayman616]

Garou just realized it when he fought Saitama for a while. Saitama's initial growth isn't enough to see such a big difference in strength. Because as soon as Garou copied Saitama, they immediately had equal strength as shown in the graph.

the difference is the time that takes a punch. saitama punchs him, garou copies and punches. but saitama is already stronger. also the growth is exponential, so it's normal for it to look like there is no big difference at the start.

 

[Second22]

the difference is the time that takes a punch. saitama punchs him, garou copies and punches. but saitama is already stronger. also the growth is exponential, so it's normal for it to look like there is no big difference at the start.

The main point I came here to discuss about CRT is Garou, when not using Saitama Mode, cannot have attack power equal to even a serious punch^2. It's impossible for Saitama at that time to grow as high as Garou, unable to keep up with him or compare fighting power at all, due to the graph multiplication and the growing difference in levels. Garou just felt himself when fighting Saitama for a while. Not the beginning of the fight on Io for sure. So the initial difference on Io is Garou did not use Saitama mode.

 

[MrTayman616]

The main point I came here to discuss about CRT is Garou, when not using Saitama Mode, cannot have attack power equal to even a serious punch^2. It's impossible for Saitama at that time to grow as high as Garou, unable to keep up with him or compare fighting power at all, due to the graph multiplication and the growing difference in levels. Garou just felt himself when fighting Saitama for a while. Not the beginning of the fight on Io for sure. So the initial difference on Io is Garou did not use Saitama mode.

i see, but in that case, garou simply couldn't keep up because of saitama's growth, garou's statements also shows that when he copies it once, he keeps it. also the reason why he only copied him once. which after realizing his strength growing endlessly, chooses to copy and surpass him rather than with only his normal growth.

 

[Second22]

i see, but in that case, garou simply couldn't keep up because of saitama's growth, garou's statements also shows that when he copies it once, he keeps it. also the reason why he only copied him once. which after realizing his strength growing endlessly, chooses to copy and surpass him rather than with only his normal growth.

That difference widens gradually as Garou uses the Saitama mode intermittently. Therefore, generally, the initial points of the graph show very minimal growth and hardly display any significant difference in the graph lines. The absence of line graph differentiation between the two should also be considered alongside the period before Garou copied Saitama. The difference in which the strip does not see the difference, or the difference is just 0.0001 (an example of increasing the graph), is not really enough for Saitama to show superiority in the initial growth of the graph. If it's true, as acknowledged on the site, the slight difference in very slight difference will make Saitama much superior in the initial growth of the graph. Generally, he shouldn't fight with Saitama when the graph increases a little more. Because just a little increase in the graph that makes it eazy for Saitama to immediately blitz him, Like when he just arrived Io Moon.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

The point is that you didn't answer what I asked at all. Why does Garou have to copy Saitama even though at the time they just arrived at Io Moon, their powers weren't far apart at all? Because if the graph starts from Serious Punch^2, it wouldn't make sense.

Because, even if they wasn't that far apart, Saitama was still stronger, and Garou wanted to copy and refine Saitama's full power to win

Anyway, Garou isn't as strong as Saitama, so he copies Saitama. If he were as strong as Saitama, why would he need to copy? Why wouldn't he use his own abilities or martial arts to defeat Saitama? Because he can't. When he's not in Saitama mode, he can't fight on equal footing with Saitama.

He never has been as strong as Saitama. The graph makes clear that, although near, he's always been below Saitama. And, as we've seen in the match, the difference was enough for martial arts to remain meaningless. 

That would also be the case when he is in Saitama mode. If you say that after copying, he is not in Saitama mode and is as strong as before, why couldn't he fight Saitama at all in the beginning on Io Moon?

Already answered. Saitama was, at that point, stronger, something that both Garou and Saitama noticed several times: Garou being surprised by Saitama's strength (despite previously matching a serious punch), Saitama saying that he can let his full power, Garou saying Saitama is showing of his strength… believe it or not, Saitama still had something to show after his previous serious punch.

I mean, the graph starts when he copies Saitama on Io Moon, not from the earlier period on Earth.

This is completely false. Here is Garou copying Saitama in the Moon, here is the graph. There are 3 points to indicate Garou copying Saitama previous to this fight, which have to show the other 3 instances Garou copy Saitama, i.e., including the Earth ones.

If you want, I can make an edit of the images to show it clearer (no insult intended. Just think a draw would make this easier to see)

Because the graph's starting point shows Saitama's strength equal to Garou's, which makes more sense. On Io, before he copied Saitama, he was clearly weaker than Saitama.

That's my point, even before copying Saitama on I.o., he still was almost the level of Saitama.

That's why he could scratch Saitama after all

Currently, the accepted idea on the site is that the graph starts after Serious Punch^2,

Source? Because if it is, then it's completely wrong.

but what we see is that Garou, when not in Saitama mode, is weaker than Saitama. He doesn't have the same strength as Saitama, unlike what the graph shows.

He does not have the same strength as Saitama, obviously. He's never had. The difference is unknown, such as how it is unknown the units on the Y axis. Even if they seem to touch, they could be thousands of times apart.

This can happen to any function. You can, for example, do this with 2^x and 10^x in Geogebra and see if you zoom out enough, the 2 functions will be seen as almost touching despite their values being far apart.

As I mentioned above, that's correct. Normally, Saitama's Normal Punch that Garou copied in the beginning caused Saitama to get slightly injured, as shown in the manga. However, since it's part of Saitama Mode, I think it's more appropriate to separate it from that key.

Again, Garou's power does not drop down after he copies someone, which'd be shown in the graph according to what you say.

It's impossible. The accepted graph starts after Serious Punch^2, at which point they had equal strength.

Source?

It's impossible for Saitama to be holding back his power. If Blast hadn't intervened, Saitama would have already destroyed the Earth. Is that really holding back?

Saitama already treated with attacks capable of destroying the Earth's surface or destabilizing the Earth while holding back. This is nothing new.