- 252
- 24
Clockwork FRA
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Clockwork vs Misogi Kumagawa
- Thread starter GyroNutz
- Start date
- Status
- 14,678
- 4,583
Yeah, why? Is there a problem with that?
- 24,183
- 3,938
Just a tad... odd.
- 15,950
- 12,359
Tier has nothing to do with knowing everything.ZacharyGrossman273 said:
- 232
- 27
Clockwork FRA. Even if he couldn't kill him, the time manipulation/freezing him in time & leaving is all he needs to win. Clockworks ability to think to activate his powers tied with the fact that he'll know how every outcome of this fight can work, he can simply follow the one of potentially many ways ending with his victory.
- 16,606
- 1,791
Wait. So Clock work will open up the battle and immediately time stop so nothing can happen to incap Kumagawa?
First off, do we count incapacitation time based off of internal/relative time or external time?
Second, given that the second the battle starts and Clockwork pulls a Diavolo to time stop for eternity, what are Kumagawa's win conditions? From the looks of it, none of his usual win conditions are viable here
First off, do we count incapacitation time based off of internal/relative time or external time?
Second, given that the second the battle starts and Clockwork pulls a Diavolo to time stop for eternity, what are Kumagawa's win conditions? From the looks of it, none of his usual win conditions are viable here
- 16,606
- 1,791
knock knockXtasyamphetamine said:
- 15,950
- 12,359
I don't see why permanently freezing someone in time doesn't count as incap.
@Lapitus
So it's Misogi vs Oracle all over again.
@Lapitus
So it's Misogi vs Oracle all over again.
- 24,183
- 3,938
This isn't a stomp, it's just decisive
ABoogieYesSir
They/Them- 6,164
- 239
Clockwank FRA
- 9,056
- 1,808
This is different from Misogi vs Oracle because Misogi cannot kill Oracle in every timeline because of his lack of range, there is only one Clockwork that Misogi can kill
This is decisive.
This is decisive.
- 8,998
- 2,927
It does, that's like every Kaguya Houraisan thread in a nutshell.LordGriffin1000 said:
- 33,408
- 8,430
- 63,529
- 8,507
Misogi can seal, which is a win con
He doesn't have won against the Oracle, which makes that a stomp
He doesn't have won against the Oracle, which makes that a stomp
- 16,606
- 1,791
Permanently freezing someone in time with something like that one dude's ability from Big Order where he makes it so specific people cannot move would be incapacitation, for sure. But if the issue with just stopping time for yourself and winning that way is that, in a sense, no time ever progressed. Unless you are someone like The Stalker, there is nothing to gain from just sitting in time stop. Of course, I just want to be clear on policy here. If it is ruled that incapity is on relative time then it does make matches for someone like Cueball nigh impossible
Basically. But this is more complicated. Is Oracle aware that stopping time and going to get a cup of coffee is a win condition? If he does not see sitting there for 24 hours his time as a win con then he won't work toward those conditions
Basically. But this is more complicated. Is Oracle aware that stopping time and going to get a cup of coffee is a win condition? If he does not see sitting there for 24 hours his time as a win con then he won't work toward those conditions
- 15,950
- 12,359
Clockwork can effect single people with his time powers so he can just freeze Misogi and let time flow normally.
- 16,606
- 1,791
Not if he pulls a Diavolo, and uses his precog to time hax Kumagawa into incapacity every time Kumagawa does anything. If Book Maker ever landed, then perhaps, but under these conditions it ever landing is an impossibilitySchnee One said:
- 63,529
- 8,507
I don't think characters are aware of metaphysical win conditions in a match.
Also, have you seen Touhou matches? They win like this all the time
Also, have you seen Touhou matches? They win like this all the time
- 16,606
- 1,791
Ok, this kind of time incap is valid in my eyes. However, its still a stompLordGriffin1000 said:
- 63,529
- 8,507
Bookmaker blitz and seal does not work?
- 16,606
- 1,791
Good to knowSchnee One said:
Nah, I haven't, but if they win from knowing the metaphysical rules of victory or time stopping and standing there then it sounds like policy needs to be discussed
- 63,529
- 8,507
Not being able to do jack shit for 24 hours is the simplest form of incapacitation out there.
There's no need for a policy
There's no need for a policy
- 16,606
- 1,791
No. Not if every time Clockwork looks into the future and sees Kumagawa doing it he just time stops him. It's like Diavolo with King Crimson and Epitaph, but with time stop instead of erasure and no stamina cap to balanceSchnee One said:
- 63,529
- 8,507
Except Precog doesn't make you act faster except for specific circumstances
Besides, this is no different from Star Wars matches
Besides, this is no different from Star Wars matches
- 16,606
- 1,791
But is it 24 hours for me or 24 hours for the rest of the world?Schnee One said:
Look at someone like Cueball. Even the time it was take for the Electrical signals to reach your brain is eons for Cueball. So where does the incap timer count? The time of the world, or the time of the individual
- 16,606
- 1,791
Faster doesn't matter when you always act first.Schnee One said:
- 63,529
- 8,507
The rest of the world
Yes if they can't do shit for 24 hours
Yes if they can't do shit for 24 hours
- 16,606
- 1,791
Ok, glad we agree. Looks like some matches so Touhou need to be talked about, but that is not my area of expertiseSchnee One said:
- 63,529
- 8,507
Faster doesn't matter when you always act first.
I just said he doesn't?
He wins because Misogi uses bookmaker after blitzing, which makes him lose
I just said he doesn't?
He wins because Misogi uses bookmaker after blitzing, which makes him lose
- 16,606
- 1,791
How would The Stalker vs Clockwork go?
- 16,606
- 1,791
@Gar
Doesn't do what? Act first?
No, because his precog guarantees he will always act first. If Kumagawa does blitz, then he wins, therefore he will never let Kumagawa blitz and will always stop time before he gets the chance. Thus, it is a stomp
Doesn't do what? Act first?
No, because his precog guarantees he will always act first. If Kumagawa does blitz, then he wins, therefore he will never let Kumagawa blitz and will always stop time before he gets the chance. Thus, it is a stomp
- 63,529
- 8,507
Errr
Precog doesn't make you act first when both characters lead with thought based attacks at the start of the match?
Precog doesn't make you act first when both characters lead with thought based attacks at the start of the match?
- 16,606
- 1,791
He sees all of time. He will see 5 seconds into the future or any amount of time and act first
- 63,529
- 8,507
Seeing the future doesn't make you act faster.
I see a person about to shoot me in front of me, does that mean my reactions are randomly faster?
I see a person about to shoot me in front of me, does that mean my reactions are randomly faster?
- 16,606
- 1,791
No, but put it like this. There isn't some dude that says "start" and then they go for the quick draw. This is a random encounter. When they encounter eachother, Oracle will act first every single time
If there is some point where they start they cannot attack before, in which case you are right and they act at the same time, then all the previous votes are invalid because Kumagawa can also just think and seal as well
If there is some point where they start they cannot attack before, in which case you are right and they act at the same time, then all the previous votes are invalid because Kumagawa can also just think and seal as well
- 63,529
- 8,507
Oracle acts first because another Oracle manipulates causality to change Kumagawa's actions, bad example
Kumagawa never seals instantly in character, he uses Bookmakerbeill not work on Clockwork, so he blitzes, and gets time stopped afterwards, the votes are not invalid
Kumagawa never seals instantly in character, he uses Bookmakerbeill not work on Clockwork, so he blitzes, and gets time stopped afterwards, the votes are not invalid
- 16,606
- 1,791
I meant Clockwork, my bad. When they encounter eachother, Clockwork will act first every single time
Yes he does. He has multiple times. If he book maker blitzes, then he won't get time stopped after, since clockwork will be sealed
Yes he does. He has multiple times. If he book maker blitzes, then he won't get time stopped after, since clockwork will be sealed
- 63,529
- 8,507
Why when his Precog doesn't increase his reactions?
Not every time however, in the cases where he doesn't seal after blitzing, he gets time stopped
He also usually bookmakers from what I remember, so that's more towards clockwork anyway
Not like it matters since shooting first isn't a stomp or literally all of Kumagawa's wins and Star Wars matches would be stomps
Not every time however, in the cases where he doesn't seal after blitzing, he gets time stopped
He also usually bookmakers from what I remember, so that's more towards clockwork anyway
Not like it matters since shooting first isn't a stomp or literally all of Kumagawa's wins and Star Wars matches would be stomps
- 214
- 24
Guess I'm voting Clockwork by reasons above.
- Status
Similar threads
