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Clockwork vs Misogi Kumagawa

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Based on the description in his profile it should be nigh omniscience.
 
Clockwork FRA. Even if he couldn't kill him, the time manipulation/freezing him in time & leaving is all he needs to win. Clockworks ability to think to activate his powers tied with the fact that he'll know how every outcome of this fight can work, he can simply follow the one of potentially many ways ending with his victory.
 
Wait. So Clock work will open up the battle and immediately time stop so nothing can happen to incap Kumagawa?

First off, do we count incapacitation time based off of internal/relative time or external time?

Second, given that the second the battle starts and Clockwork pulls a Diavolo to time stop for eternity, what are Kumagawa's win conditions? From the looks of it, none of his usual win conditions are viable here
 
I don't see why permanently freezing someone in time doesn't count as incap.

@Lapitus

So it's Misogi vs Oracle all over again.
 
This is different from Misogi vs Oracle because Misogi cannot kill Oracle in every timeline because of his lack of range, there is only one Clockwork that Misogi can kill

This is decisive.
 
Misogi can seal, which is a win con

He doesn't have won against the Oracle, which makes that a stomp
 
Permanently freezing someone in time with something like that one dude's ability from Big Order where he makes it so specific people cannot move would be incapacitation, for sure. But if the issue with just stopping time for yourself and winning that way is that, in a sense, no time ever progressed. Unless you are someone like The Stalker, there is nothing to gain from just sitting in time stop. Of course, I just want to be clear on policy here. If it is ruled that incapity is on relative time then it does make matches for someone like Cueball nigh impossible

Basically. But this is more complicated. Is Oracle aware that stopping time and going to get a cup of coffee is a win condition? If he does not see sitting there for 24 hours his time as a win con then he won't work toward those conditions
 
Clockwork can effect single people with his time powers so he can just freeze Misogi and let time flow normally.
 
Schnee One said:
Misogi can seal, which is a win con
He doesn't have won against the Oracle, which makes that a stomp
Click to expand...
Not if he pulls a Diavolo, and uses his precog to time hax Kumagawa into incapacity every time Kumagawa does anything. If Book Maker ever landed, then perhaps, but under these conditions it ever landing is an impossibility
 
I don't think characters are aware of metaphysical win conditions in a match.

Also, have you seen Touhou matches? They win like this all the time
 
Schnee One said:
I don't think characters are aware of metaphysical win conditions in a match.
Also, have you seen Touhou matches? They win like this all the time
Click to expand...
Good to know

Nah, I haven't, but if they win from knowing the metaphysical rules of victory or time stopping and standing there then it sounds like policy needs to be discussed
 
Not being able to do jack shit for 24 hours is the simplest form of incapacitation out there.

There's no need for a policy
 
Schnee One said:
Bookmaker blitz and seal does not work?
Click to expand...
No. Not if every time Clockwork looks into the future and sees Kumagawa doing it he just time stops him. It's like Diavolo with King Crimson and Epitaph, but with time stop instead of erasure and no stamina cap to balance
 
Except Precog doesn't make you act faster except for specific circumstances

Besides, this is no different from Star Wars matches
 
Schnee One said:
Not being able to do jack shit for 24 hours is the simplest form of incapacitation out there.
There's no need for a policy
Click to expand...
But is it 24 hours for me or 24 hours for the rest of the world?

Look at someone like Cueball. Even the time it was take for the Electrical signals to reach your brain is eons for Cueball. So where does the incap timer count? The time of the world, or the time of the individual
 
Faster doesn't matter when you always act first.

I just said he doesn't?

He wins because Misogi uses bookmaker after blitzing, which makes him lose
 
@Gar

Doesn't do what? Act first?

No, because his precog guarantees he will always act first. If Kumagawa does blitz, then he wins, therefore he will never let Kumagawa blitz and will always stop time before he gets the chance. Thus, it is a stomp
 
Errr

Precog doesn't make you act first when both characters lead with thought based attacks at the start of the match?
 
Seeing the future doesn't make you act faster.

I see a person about to shoot me in front of me, does that mean my reactions are randomly faster?
 
No, but put it like this. There isn't some dude that says "start" and then they go for the quick draw. This is a random encounter. When they encounter eachother, Oracle will act first every single time

If there is some point where they start they cannot attack before, in which case you are right and they act at the same time, then all the previous votes are invalid because Kumagawa can also just think and seal as well
 
Oracle acts first because another Oracle manipulates causality to change Kumagawa's actions, bad example

Kumagawa never seals instantly in character, he uses Bookmakerbeill not work on Clockwork, so he blitzes, and gets time stopped afterwards, the votes are not invalid
 
I meant Clockwork, my bad. When they encounter eachother, Clockwork will act first every single time

Yes he does. He has multiple times. If he book maker blitzes, then he won't get time stopped after, since clockwork will be sealed
 
Why when his Precog doesn't increase his reactions?

Not every time however, in the cases where he doesn't seal after blitzing, he gets time stopped

He also usually bookmakers from what I remember, so that's more towards clockwork anyway

Not like it matters since shooting first isn't a stomp or literally all of Kumagawa's wins and Star Wars matches would be stomps
 
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