Clearing up Dragon Slayers vs Dragons mechanics

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

The usage of the word makes it seem like it's a one shot, it's more akin to bypassing magic Resistance and damage boost to dragonic foes. For example, Dante from Devil May Cry only has "can negate durability to an extent" for being able to blow the opponent up from the inside which is objectively a better form of Durability negation than the Slayers have.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

"Can only negate durability to an extent"

Does this not fall under Limited? I don't think someone would see this (and the description for it) and then think that a Dragon Slayer would be able to instantly kill a dragon.

 

[Captain_Torch]

"Limited Durability negation" implies that it negates durability only to an extent.

The term is quite broad, and some characters might have more impressive limited durability negation, however the term itself fits.

"Minor Durability Negation" would imply that the effects aren't that noticeable, which doesn't fit this criteria.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

It's also pretty darn inconsistent in it's showings, Natsu and Co vs Atlas and the other Dragons, Natsu and the Slayers fighting against Acnologia, hell Wendy should have been able to defeat Irene by herself theoretically. There's quite a few notable examples of the Slayers failing to negate the durability of Dragons. Even "limited" is quite generous given how inconsistent it is.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Rin

If you would have read the thread you would have noticed why that is the case.

The durability negation isn't inconsistent at all. Dragons have far superior durability compared to their tier via their durable scales - Dragon Slayers pierce(negate) through the scales, hitting the actual body. The thing is though, the actual (w/o scales) body of dragons is durable enough to be on their AP tier, as proven with Igneel vs Acnologia battle.


Imagine it like this. Let's say there is Character A, who is a human. Character B is on the same level as A, but he is a dragon.

Since he's a dragon, he basically has additional "armor". So if A and B fight, B will be able to damage A, but A won't be able to do that due to the armor.

A dragon slayer bypasses the "armor". So if A is a dragon slayer, then this will be an equal fight, since B's additonal armor will be null.

If we take Character C, a Dragon Slayer who is far weaker than B, then even if C negates the "armor" it won't be enough to actually hurt B.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Captain Torch

That's mostly true, but you're missing some details, Natsu, Wendy, and Erza with Dragon Slayer abilities hurt dragons, and they were much weaker than them, yes, Durability of the Dragons is far higher than their AP, however with Dragon Slayer Magic, they bypass their scales, the Dragons Durability without scales is very vulnerable, considering opponents like Wendy can damage them, and Erza who was likely High 7-A when falling to attack Irene, One-shot her Dragon Form, it's probably like attacking a humans muscle tissue, since scales are basically a Dragons Skin, so it doesn't make the fight "equal", it gives you a good advantage against someone who would be stronger than you, but that doesn't mean you'll win

It just means you're super effective, like in Pokemon when you have a type advantage, but a strong enough Pokemon can still easily beat a weaker one

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Aubin The dragon slayers were able to hurt the dragons, sure, but nobody was able to deal any real damage. If Wendy could actually damage a dragon, then the likes of Laxus would one shot one. The dragons feeling pain was just a showcase of Dragon Slayers being able to bypass the scales, not necessarily a showcase of the DS being able to damage them.

If your reasoning would be correct, then both Igneel & Acno could one shot each other with their DS magic.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Hurting a Dragon who is way stronger than you means the attack was super effective, the Dragon Slayers still negate durability of Dragons, the point is, even with that, they weren't strong enough, and Erza was definitely able to do some real damage, and no I don't think Igneel and Acnologia would One-Shot each other, they're just doing some good damage against each other, and they have to be very careful, we didn't fully see that fight either, but they were dodging and avoiding attacks for a while in that battle, and the first time we saw blood in that fight, was right before Acnologia One-shot Igneel, plus Erza who was High 7-A damaged Irene who was Low 6-B, unless we wanna assume Erza was Low 6-B for more than one attack, which could be a fair argument, regardless this Limited Durability Negation if used against a dragon who has Durability equal to a Dragon Slayer would get easily stomped

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Aubin

Irene pretty much confirmed that the Erza that attacked her was the same Erza that destroyed the meteor, and yet all Erza did was wound her, not even fatally.

It doesn't matter how Igneel & Acno fought - their attacks connected, so going by your logic they would instantly kill each other.

Besides, you're ignoring the fact that the GMG dragons took no damage at all. And once again, going by your logic, if Wendy could "damage" a dragon, then Laxus would be one shotting them left and right, seeing as he can one shot opponents far above the likes of Wendy.

The only reason the GMG dragons were "hurting" was to showcase their vulnerability to DS magic. The fact that the dragons were equally "hurting" from all the dragon slayers (and wendy and laxus have a huge difference in stats) proves that there was no real damage dealt.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Captain Torch

I think we're agreeing, we're just saying it differently, basically durability of the dragons is high, and Dragon Slayers negate it by a certain degree that it's equal to their AP

 

[The_Calaca]

So... are we good with deleting Magic Resistance and its Negation from the profiles already?

 

[1997KD]

Isn't erza/gray need dsm crest to hurt merc even they were stronger than wendy? And wendy says now you can hurt him because merc was resistance to magic because of being a dragon?

 

[1997KD]

Dragons only stated to affect by dsm, while have resistance to other magic based attack as we see in gmg arc.

Later in wararc erza was only able to hurt irene because wendy enhance her sword and give her ds attribute.

In 100yq arc while giving them ds attirbute wendy say now you can hurt him showing that even if they get more ap then wendy, erza/gray can bypass their scale.

Dragons should have something like this in their profile Durability: 7-B, higher while with scale or higher against non-dragon slayer weapons/attack Now, Reason why durability negation make sense is character with higher ap can't hurt dragon while character with lower ap can( jura>cobra still jura can do any damage), wendy make zirconis feel pain while mira can't, still nor wendy neither cobra can one shot them.

Magic resistance it's simply because only a dragon and its magic can hurt other dragon(irene basically tell his dragon to stick his magic to her). Dragon never shown to getting hurt by other magic.

 

[1997KD]

Also y'all should check old thread, maybe someone missing a point

 

[The_Calaca]

Erza and Gray being stronger than Wendy means that they are stronger High 7-As while Merc is Low 6-B. It's the same case.

Same with Irene. Erza can't harm her dragon skin because of the scales.

Your suggestion would overcomplicate things. Not to mention it's not like a dragon scales is some kind of special ability. Their durability takes the scales into account already.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We good, just remove Magic Resistance stuff rom the profiles

 

[The_Calaca]

Okay, I'll start with it.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Just change the stuff to this

Limited Durability Negation against Dragons (His Magic is especially effective against those with dragon-like properties, bypassing their defenses)

 

[The_Calaca]

Done.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Good, we done here then

 

[The_Calaca]

Should I close this?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yes, thanks for the help