[Classic FF] General Revisions

[Rutæhh]

Removing Durability, Forcefield and Intangibility Shenanigans from Classic Profiles​

So this is what I'm referring to:

• Limited Durability Negation, Forcefield Negation, and Intangibility (Magic negates conventional physical durability, barriers, and armor, requiring specific defense against magic which is powered by the Mind and Spirit) - Cecil
• Durability Reduction (Magic ignores durability to physical attacks requiring specific resistances to reduce the damage of), Forcefield Negation and Intangibility (Magic negates conventional physical durability, barriers, and armor, requiring specific defense against magic which is powered by the mind and spirit) - Luneth

I ask for these to be removed as:

1. Peep the page lil bro. Haxes by their very nature ignore durability.
2. No ingame explanations for it, so it is an ability not even acknowledged by the writers. Purely game mechanics.

---

The Four Fiends, Garland and the Creator - Abstract Existence Removal ​

• Abstract Existence (Type 1; Absorbed the Essence of the Crystals to his being, being one with the Crystal's literal essence)

The first part is true as the Four Fiends/Garland claimed the power of the crystals, the second I have no idea where that comes from even the thread that added this doesn't elaborate on this. Remove it on the basis that it has no scans to support what it is claiming.

---

The Cycle of Wrath - Abilities Additions ​

From this:

• Immortality (Type 4; Is stated that he constantly revives over and over with the timeloop he has created.)

To this:

• Time Manipulation (Time Travel) and Fate Manipulation which grants Immortality (Type 4 and 8) (The Cycle of Wrath allows its participants [Garland and the Four Fiends] to send each other back and forth through time allowing them to come back from the dead. This causes time to warp and spiral, with destiny and the future revolving around this Cycle of wrath.)

---

Other Ability Additions for Classic FF​

• Gravity Manipulation for Meteor - FFIV GBA Manual
• Soul Destruction for the Death spell - FFIV GBA Manual
• Antimatter Manipulation for Flare - FFIV GBA Manual
• Law Manipulation for Time Magic - FFV GBA Manual
• Social Influencing for Faris (Charisma and Leadership) - FFV GBA Manual
• Energy Manipulation for Quake - FFIV GBA Manual

---

Votes

Agree: DarkDragonMedeus, Theglassman12

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[TartaChocholate]

Removing Durability, Forcefield and Intangibility Shenanigans from Classic Profiles​

So this is what I'm referring to:

• Limited Durability Negation, Forcefield Negation, and Intangibility (Magic negates conventional physical durability, barriers, and armor, requiring specific defense against magic which is powered by the Mind and Spirit) - Cecil
• Durability Reduction (Magic ignores durability to physical attacks requiring specific resistances to reduce the damage of), Forcefield Negation and Intangibility (Magic negates conventional physical durability, barriers, and armor, requiring specific defense against magic which is powered by the mind and spirit) - Luneth

I ask for these to be removed as:

1. Peep the page lil bro. Haxes by their very nature ignore durability.
2. No ingame explanations for it, so it is an ability not even acknowledged by the writers. Purely game mechanics.

---

Yeah, I agree on this one. It would be different if there was lore or something saying something. If it was so simple everything with a Magic Defense or Non-Physical Defense stat would have these abilities.

Isekais address this stuff, funnily enough, frequently mentioning how magic or targets the "Astral Body" or some samey stuff.

The Four Fiends, Garland and the Creator - Abstract Existence Removal ​

• Abstract Existence (Type 1; Absorbed the Essence of the Crystals to his being, being one with the Crystal's literal essence)

The first part is true as the Four Fiends/Garland claimed the power of the crystals, the second I have no idea where that comes from even the thread that added this doesn't elaborate on this.

---

So... this is getting removed or just getting a change in justification?

The Cycle of Wrath - Abilities Additions ​

From this:

• Immortality (Type 4; Is stated that he constantly revives over and over with the timeloop he has created.)

To this:

• Time Manipulation (Time Travel) and Fate Manipulation which grants Immortality (Type 4 and 8) (The Cycle of Wrath allows its participants [Garland and the Four Fiends] to send each other back and forth through time allowing them to come back from the dead. This causes time to warp and spiral, with destiny and the future revolving around this Cycle of wrath.)

---

Sounds good I guess. Sorry, pretty bad with this sort of stuff.

Other Ability Additions for Classic FF​

• Gravity Manipulation for Meteor
• Soul Destruction for the Death spell
• Antimatter Manipulation for Flare
  • Everybody that gets hit by this gets a resistance to it
• Law Manipulation for Time Magic
• Social Influencing for Faris (Charisma and Leadership)

---

Check out, yeh. Remember to specify where the scans come from to avoid confusions.

I think you could also add Energy Manip for Quake, given it describes sending waves into the earth and all that.

Votes

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[YmTheSuper]

I think you could also add Energy Manip for Quake, given it describes sending waves into the earth and all that.

I believe that would be more so a case of Vibration Manipulation.

 

[Hypertornado099]

So... this is getting removed or just getting a change in justification?

I think it should be removed, its completely baseless

 

[Rutæhh]

So... this is getting removed or just getting a change in justification?

Im removing it since becoming "one" with the essences doesn't mean anything and also never happened. They Four Fiends and Garland already have power absorption which covers stuff like that. If i ever get the chance, ill update all their profiles

Sounds good I guess. Sorry, pretty bad with this sort of stuff.

Check out, yeh. Remember to specify where the scans come from to avoid confusions.

will do so thanks

I think you could also add Energy Manip for Quake, given it describes sending waves into the earth and all that.

Ill add it to OP

 

[Deonment]

So this is what I'm referring to:

• Limited Durability Negation, Forcefield Negation, and Intangibility (Magic negates conventional physical durability, barriers, and armor, requiring specific defense against magic which is powered by the Mind and Spirit) - Cecil
• Durability Reduction (Magic ignores durability to physical attacks requiring specific resistances to reduce the damage of), Forcefield Negation and Intangibility (Magic negates conventional physical durability, barriers, and armor, requiring specific defense against magic which is powered by the mind and spirit) - Luneth

I ask for these to be removed as:

1. Peep the page lil bro. Haxes by their very nature ignore durability.
2. No ingame explanations for it, so it is an ability not even acknowledged by the writers. Purely game mechanics.

Eeeeh, 50/50 on this, I'm pretty sure it's implied somewhere (And honestly, armors literally increase your MR, what is even on with that segment), and may just be a novel statement, but beyond that, the first point I'm imagining is mostly for the more "natural" aspects of magic (ie, fire, ice, lightning, meteor).

The Four Fiends, Garland and the Creator - Abstract Existence Removal ​

• Abstract Existence (Type 1; Absorbed the Essence of the Crystals to his being, being one with the Crystal's literal essence)

The first part is true as the Four Fiends/Garland claimed the power of the crystals, the second I have no idea where that comes from even the thread that added this doesn't elaborate on this. Remove it on the basis that it has no scans to support what it is claiming.

That's just wack to begin with, what
The FF5 Protags literally do the same thing (that is, fuse with the essences/shards of the crystals) and are very clearly still normal, and they absorbed it to an even more complete degree than the fiends did.

The Cycle of Wrath - Abilities Additions ​

From this:

• Immortality (Type 4; Is stated that he constantly revives over and over with the timeloop he has created.)

To this:

• Time Manipulation (Time Travel) and Fate Manipulation which grants Immortality (Type 4 and 8) (The Cycle of Wrath allows its participants [Garland and the Four Fiends] to send each other back and forth through time allowing them to come back from the dead. This causes time to warp and spiral, with destiny and the future revolving around this Cycle of wrath.)

Looks better yeah

Other Ability Additions for Classic FF​

• Gravity Manipulation for Meteor - FFIV GBA Manual
• Soul Destruction for the Death spell - FFIV GBA Manual
• Antimatter Manipulation for Flare - FFIV GBA Manual
  • Everybody that gets hit by this gets a resistance to it
• Law Manipulation for Time Magic - FFV GBA Manual
• Social Influencing for Faris (Charisma and Leadership) - FFV GBA Manual
• Energy Manipulation for Quake - FFIV GBA Manual

Agree with everything else but the resistance, they don't resist getting hit with antimatter for like because they like, don't actually get hit with them (or experience matter-antimatter annihilation)
If we want to argue the antimatter brought up in that quote qualifies for what would give them a resist, then it'll blow up on the air around them first before hitting the PC, and that's what is going to cause/is causing the explosion we know as flare in FF4
If we want to argue that it a)spawns on them, despite the several animations across 4 versions showing otherwise b)doesn't somehow annihilate on the literal anything else around them and c)is somehow still real antimatter with all that around them and only explodes right on contact, that still doesn't explain the animations showing explosions/energy going off around them, so its either real antimatter that they don't resist the effects of because they never get hit by it, or its fake antimatter that means they don't have antimatter manip or resist that they resist the "effects" (and resist should also be in quotes given its Flare for gods sake, that shit still hits like a semitruck and a half and does damage so it sure as hell aint a full resist)

 

[TartaChocholate]

Eeeeh, 50/50 on this, I'm pretty sure it's implied somewhere (And honestly, armors literally increase your MR, what is even on with that segment), and may just be a novel statement, but beyond that, the first point I'm imagining is mostly for the more "natural" aspects of magic (ie, fire, ice, lightning, meteor).

If there is an explanation somewhere then we can use that and it would work out. But leaving it without one comes as odd given most RPGs have a non-physical defense stat, which can be boosted and all, and aren't given DuraNeg for said reason, and when a spell affects the soul or the mind like Death or Confuse, the games make it more like to be that the spell has that particular properties.

That's just wack to begin with, what
The FF5 Protags literally do the same thing (that is, fuse with the essences/shards of the crystals) and are very clearly still normal, and they absorbed it to an even more complete degree than the fiends did.

So it should be removed then?

Looks better yeah

Agree with everything else but the resistance, they don't resist getting hit with antimatter for like because they like, don't actually get hit with them (or experience matter-antimatter annihilation)
If we want to argue the antimatter brought up in that quote qualifies for what would give them a resist, then it'll blow up on the air around them first before hitting the PC, and that's what is going to cause/is causing the explosion we know as flare in FF4
If we want to argue that it a)spawns on them, despite the several animations across 4 versions showing otherwise b)doesn't somehow annihilate on the literal anything else around them and c)is somehow still real antimatter with all that around them and only explodes right on contact, that still doesn't explain the animations showing explosions/energy going off around them, so its either real antimatter that they don't resist the effects of because they never get hit by it, or its fake antimatter that means they don't have antimatter manip or resist that they resist the "effects" (and resist should also be in quotes given its Flare for gods sake, that shit still hits like a semitruck and a half and does damage so it sure as hell aint a full resist)

Statement vs real physics, eh? What should happen to qualify?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Deonment so far.

 

[Deonment]

Statement vs real physics, eh? What should happen to qualify?

The antimatter should annihilate in contact with the matter, releasing a strong burst of energy. It does this in contact with any matter, including the air surrounding someone, and it could be pretty easily read that the animation is actually the antimatter being released, and the resulting explosions/flares are the energy produced by the matter-antimatter reaction. If it doesn't annihilate on any matter until it reaches the protags, it would either be a)extremely unlikely or b)just not be real antimatter.

So it should be removed then?

Yeah

 

[Theglassman12]

the AE stuff mostly comes from the fact that the Fiends absorbing the essence was directly influencing the world due to how the elements and all forms of nature were in wack due to the fiends essentially syphoning the crystals and the world only returned to normal when they're dead. For the FF5 cast they're not the exact same given they're not directly influencing the world itself, but if it gets removed then it's whatever imo.

 

[Deonment]

the AE stuff mostly comes from the fact that the Fiends absorbing the essence was directly influencing the world due to how the elements and all forms of nature were in wack due to the fiends essentially syphoning the crystals and the world only returned to normal when they're dead. For the FF5 cast they're not the exact same given they're not directly influencing the world itself, but if it gets removed then it's whatever imo.

I mean we also see that in FF5, with how the crystals being shattered (and the protags having absorbed them) was distinctly causing stuff to go out of wack
The most blatant example would be Karnak, which after the Fire Crystal was destroyed and they took the shards, some fires died down, others still ran but were distinctively called cold, etc
The simple answer is that the fiends aren't abstract because they aren't the essences themselves, they're absorbing and using the essences for power in the same way the cast of 5 are, utilizing it, but not are it directly (otherwise killing them should have had even worse effects, considering what we see from 5).

 

[Hypertornado099]

the AE stuff mostly comes from the fact that the Fiends absorbing the essence was directly influencing the world due to how the elements and all forms of nature were in wack due to the fiends essentially syphoning the crystals and the world only returned to normal when they're dead.

How does this prove AE though? This is explained to be the case because the crystals themselves have lost power

Spoiler: npc near black magic shop

もし　つちのクリスタルの　かがやきが　もどれば　きっとまた　だいちに　いのちが　
やどるでしょう。
もし　土のクリスタルの　輝きが　戻れば　きっと又　大地に　命が　宿るでしょう。
If the radiance of the Earth Crystal returns, certainly also life will dwell in
the earth.

This statement proves that the Lich restricted the power of the crystal

Spoiler: Sarda

バンパイアは　しもべにすぎぬ。だいちを　くさらせ　つちのクリスタルの　かがやき
を　ふうじている　やつは　もっと　おくふかくにいる。この　つえを　もって　バン
パイアの　へやの　うらで　つかえ！
バンパイアは　下部に過ぎぬ。大地を　腐らせ　土のクリスタルの　輝きを　封じてい
る　やつは　もっと　奥深くにいる。この　杖を　以て　バンパイアの　部屋の　裏で　
使え！
The Vampire is no more than a servant. The thing that rots the earth and seals
the Earth Crystal's radiance is deeper. Use this Staff behind the room of the
Vampire!

These statements by NPCs in Melmond prove my point too:

Spoiler: melmond

おおっ　つちのクリスタルに　かがやきが！！
おおっ　土のクリスタルに　輝きが！！
Oh, radiance has returned to the Earth Crystal!!

★Dwarf: E Side (and others)
ひかりのせんしたち……　あなたたちの　おかげです。　つちが　きれいになってきま
した！
光の戦士達……　あなた達の　お蔭です。　土が　きれいになってきました！
Light Warriors.... It is thanks to you. The earth has become beautiful!

Spoiler: temple of onrac mermaid npc

みずのクリスタルの　かがやきを　とりもどして　うみを　すくってください！
水のクリスタルの　輝きを　取り戻して　海を　救って下さい！
Please regain the radiance of the Water Crystal and save the sea!

And here's one more regarding the water crystal

Spoiler: old man in onrac

しんぴなる　みずのちからが　よみがえった！　これでまた　むかしのように　このく
にも　さかえることじゃろうて……！
神秘なる　水の力が　甦った！　これで又　昔の様に　この国も　栄えることじゃろう
て……！
The mysterious power of Water has been revived! With this, even this country
will flourish again as in the old days!

 

[Rutæhh]

the AE stuff mostly comes from the fact that the Fiends absorbing the essence was directly influencing the world due to how the elements and all forms of nature were in wack due to the fiends essentially syphoning the crystals and the world only returned to normal when they're dead.

I dont believe this would qualify for AE1 as they dont become an abstraction themselves nor does the story ever treat them as such but rather them stealing the power of the crystals having tangible effects on their respective elements. This should be added to the CM1 justification

 

[Theglassman12]

@Hypertornado099 Do you have a source on where these texts even came from?

@Deonment Idk if I'd call them influencing the entire world as the same thing the FF5 cast are doing given the latter is gaining job classes and the former is literally influencing how the world works, but I don't particularly care if we remove this ability.

@Rutæhh Fine by me if we decide to use this for more CM 1 reasoning.

 

[Hypertornado099]

@Hypertornado099 Do you have a source on where these texts even came from?

Here

 

[Rutæhh]

@Rutæhh Fine by me if we decide to use this for more CM 1 reasoning.

thank you for your time.

could u give an opinion on the other stuff as well please

 

[Theglassman12]

The other stuff looks fine to me.