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Chronosapien Timebomb scaling revision

The bomb's getting existence erasure with this revision. Alien X doesn't resist EE at this point. Alien X would die by the CTB at this point. (This is also not my only argument but it completely shuts down the discussion about outlier via Atomic-X)
 
No they were not debunked, which is why Atomic X is rated as Large planet level which is an infinite order of magnitude below even the Anihilaargh.

Prove Maltruent's feat is PIS, being a fusion doesnt always result in a character being near the power of one of its sum, Diamond Matter is a great example. You use the feat of Atomic X being erased as a feat against Alien X while ignoring all the statement and WOG putting him above the timebomb, and then you also ignore Maltruent's feat because Atomic X has a vague statement that implies he is above Maltruent??? You are not making any sense.

And no not "feats"," feat" in singular.
 
Also I will probably downgrade Atomix in the future, so Atomic-X is gonna scale from Maltruant's feats instead of the other way around, that's how good Maltruant's scaling is.
 
They were debunked.

>which is why Atomic X is rated as Large planet level which is an infinite order of magnitude below even the Anihilaargh.

Which is why he needs to be upgraded back like I already pointed out in the earlier thread too. The profile is wrong. Atomic-X's downgrade is unfounded. Simple as that.

>Prove Maltruent's feat is PIS

This was also already pointed out in the thread. Read it to get a refresher. Chronosapiens are universally known as a weak species compared to any other alien and even without factoring in Alien X into this, Atomic X has feats of being superior to Atomix whos superior to aliens far stronger than Maltruent. Such as Way Big.

Even if you exclude Alien X from this, Atomic X being weaker than Maltruent is completely false no matter how you slice it.

>being a fusion doesnt always result in a character being near the power of one of its sum, Diamond Matter is a great example.

See above. This was already debunked in the past thread, stop ignoring it. Fusions made by the original omnitrix =/= all other fusions in the franchise. The former cannot create proper fusions and only creates them when it's functioning is messed with, which is why fusions like Diamond Matter would be weaker than the individual aliens they fuse from. It's not a proper fusion.

Atomic X is formed by the Biomnitrix which IS designed to create proper alien fusions.

>You use the feat of Atomic X being erased as a feat against Alien X while ignoring all the statement and WOG

I am because at the end of the day, feats take priority over statements. Thats how it goes. The latters only used as support, not the leading justification. And the only actual feat of Alien X comparing to the timebomb is his fusion getting completely one shotted by it.
 
Also Atomic-X got downgraded way back (but I think even during your thread) and I didn't even have anything to do with it, literally every Ben 10 supporter agreed with downgrading Atomic-X.
 
More people agreeing with something doesnt make it correct. You should know this by now.

Also, if Alien X is also supposed to be killed by the EE, then there's literally nothing suggesting he's supposed to be stronger than it in the first place. You can't be killed by something your supposed to be superior to.
 
Yeah but if everyone agrees and there are good arguments and without extra context Atomic-X being on Alien X's level is a 50/50 then the majority wins, or you could argue for possibly in the best case scenario if you want to, heck you can do that now too, Atomic-X being on Alien X's level is not contradicted by the time bomb killing him because it would kill alien X too.

Oh so Alien X and Jiren have higher AP than Dragon Ball Super Beerus so they can not be hakai'd ok noted.
 
Chronosapiens are universally known as a weak species compared to any other alien and even without factoring in Alien X into this, Atomic X has feats of being superior to Atomix whos superior to aliens far stronger than Maltruent. Such as Way Big.

Maltruent is unlike any other Chronosapien, as he was capable of harming adult Gwen, dodging and tanking one of her energy blast. She is at least tier 7-B, 2 tiers above Clockwork who is 9-B, and he easily defeated a fusion between Clockwork and Techno-Bubble( the same alien species as Upgrade, Upgrade is at least tier 7-A). The fusion between ClockWork and TechnoBubble easily defeated 7-A Maltruent's henchman Exo-Skull, who is above Rath and Four Arms. Both aliens are notorious for being very powerful aliens.

So clearly Maltruent isnt like other Chronosapien, as all of his feats and portrayal put him way above them.Maltruent has 0 feats or statement that puts him below Atomic X, and all of his feats puts him way above regular Chronosapiens. So yea, not seeing how Atomic X cant be weaker than Maltruent.

>Atomic X is formed by the Biomnitrix which IS designed to create proper alien fusions.

Proof that its fusions are proper or superior to the regular omnitrix?
 
Also liger agreed with revising Clockwork to at least low 7-B, likely 7-A and Maltruant outright beats Techno-Bubble amped Clockwork in a time beam struggle + Ben 10000 with Clockwork's power was able to overpower an amped Eon who's unamped time beams were enough to fodderize Ben 23's Eye Guy.
 
Has anybody asked Andytrenom to comment here yet?
 
Thanks.
 
>Maltruent is unlike any other Chronosapie

Based on what? What makes him any special or different from any other Chronosapien? Doing random feats doesn't give you that distinction unless in-universe context supports it.

>as he was capable of harming adult Gwen, dodging and tanking one of her energy blast. She is at least tier 7-B, 2 tiers above Clockwork who is 9-B, and he easily defeated a fusion between Clockwork and Techno-Bubble( the same alien species as Upgrade, Upgrade is at least tier 7-A). The fusion between ClockWork and TechnoBubble easily defeated 7-A Maltruent's henchman Exo-Skull, who is above Rath and Four Arms. Both aliens are notorious for being very powerful aliens.

Uh, if he could only harm a 7-B but then goes on to "easily defeat" a bunch of high level 7-As, how is the latter not an outlier for him? Did he get some notable amp against Clockwork and TechnoBubbles fusion?

>So clearly Maltruent isnt like other Chronosapien, as all of his feats and portrayal put him way above them.Maltruent has 0 feats or statement that puts him below Atomic X, and all of his feats puts him way above regular Chronosapiens. So yea, not seeing how Atomic X cant be weaker than Maltruent.

This is all well and good, but it has nothing to do with what I pointed out before. Being stronger than 7-A aliens? Cool. But those feats are, again, a joke compared to what Atomix and the aliens hes superior to can do.

Even if being superior to normal Chronosapiens, it has nothing to do with being stronger than Atomix.

>Proof that its fusions are proper or superior to the regular omnitrix?

Dude. Are you seriously asking me to prove properly designed fusions are better than ones made by a ******* glitch?
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
@Kukui To be fair all your arguments kinda fall apart with tier 6 revisions + Atomix revisions. Those obviously didn't pass yet and you couldn't know that but still. Also adult Gwen is likely 7-A (and I think we both know that half of Ben's aliens being low 7-B, likely 7-A and the other half being at least 7-A, likely higher is a bit ridiculous in the first place since we can't even figure aliens like NRG out and their rankings are entirely based on how strong we think they are). Also Maltruant is different from any Chronosapien in the way that Vilgax is different from every chimera sui generis.
 
Also we should really be looking at the actual feats of the alien fusion and see what tier they are rather than assume a tier because fusion and then claim them getting defeated by weaker opponents as outliers despite them having only one or 2 appearances.
 
>Based on what? What makes him any special or different from any other Chronosapien? Doing random feats doesn't give you that distinction unless in-universe context supports it

Clearly the fact that Maltruent ***** on Clockwork, proves he isnt as weak as Clockwork, what the hell are you even on about?? How does his feat not prove he is far above regular Chronosapiens?

>Uh, if he could only harm a 7-B but then goes on to "easily defeat" a bunch of high level 7-As, how is the latter not an outlier for him?

Umm because he never used a punch or his energy blast on her, all he did was throw her which did injure her but not by much. also adult Gwen is at least 7-B her teenage version is 7-B, so she is most likely much stronger as an adult. Also, it would be an outlier for her, because Maltruent's servant has stomped 2 7-A characters on several occassions. He got no amp against clockwork fusion.

>This is all well and good, but it has nothing to do with what I pointed out before. Being stronger than 7-A aliens? Cool.

This is merely to showcase that Maltruent is not amongs the weakest aliens in Ben 10, you cant equalize him to other Chronosapiens because clearly his ******* feats prove he is far above them.

Chronosapien being stated to be amongst the weakest aliens is irrelevant to Maltruant, Maltruents feats>>> statements about Chronosapiens.

Him stomping Atomic X is absolutely not an outlier for him. You have absolutely 0 proof that Maltruent isnt stronger than Atomic X, wheras actual feats proves Maltruent > Atomic X. It doesnt matter if Atomic X is stated to be a fusion between Alien X and Atomix, or that fusions are stated to always be nearly as strong or stronger than parts of their sums, because Feats>>> Statements.

>Dude. Are you seriously asking me to prove properly designed fusions are better than ones made by a ******* glitch?

Yes I am, not only do you need to prove that the Biomnitrix doesnt work by doing the exact same glitch , but that it is superior. So far, all we have is your word and 0 statements or feats.
 
@Door Ben 10 has no 7-B characters. Only low 7-B and 7-A, adult Gwen should be considered the latter in her fight against Maltruant since she can take an attack from Exo-Skull (if she's not higher than that).
 
What the no he got a 7-A feat of his own look at Liger's blog. Also Kraaho ripping his suit is probably lifting strength or something or they just ripped it open at the weak spot or they're just 7-A themselves.
 
>Clearly the fact that Maltruent ***** on Clockwork, proves he isnt as weak as Clockwork, what the hell are you even on about?? How does his feat not prove he is far above regular Chronosapiens?

My point is that those feats can simply be outliers for him if Maltruent isnt acknowledged or established as a special chronosapien compared to the rest of his species in-universe that seperates him from them. If he is, then the feats are fine.

>Umm because he never used a punch or his energy blast on her, all he did was throw her which did injure her but not by much. also adult Gwen is at least 7-B her teenage version is 7-B, so she is most likely much stronger as an adult.

The difference between 7-B and 7-A is bigger than your making it out to be here. Like, a difference of 16x . Casually stomping a high level 7-B doesn't mean casually stomping high level 7-A's isn't an outlier. Don't think it cant be one just because it's only a single tier difference.

>He got no amp against clockwork fusion.

Then yeah, if he got no amp to justify him performing those 7-A feats, then it convinces even more that those are outliers for him.

>Him stomping Atomic X is absolutely not an outlier for him. You have absolutely 0 proof that Maltruent isnt stronger than Atomic X, wheras actual feats proves Maltruent > Atomic X. It doesnt matter if Atomic X is stated to be a fusion between Alien X and Atomix, or that fusions are nearly as strong or stronger than parts of their sums, because Feats>>> Statements.

Lol

Atomic X is superior to Atomix whos superior to High 5-A aliens. And Maltruent casually stomping 7-A's (even if they aren't outliers for him) means him even remotely harming Atomic-X isn't an outlier?

Look up High 5-A and 7-A and come back to say that to me.

>Yes I am, not only do you need to prove that the Biomnitrix doesnt work by doing the exact same glitch , but that it is superior. So far, all we have is your word.

And this shows me once again how easy it is for common sense to fly right past you.

First, the Biomnitrix is literally a version of the Omnitrix that specifically specializes in fusing aliens and using them. Any basic info of the Biomnitrix you can google yourself in seconds will tell you this. I shouldnt have to explain this for the 10th time.

Second, it's obvious on why the Biomntrix doesn't fuse aliens like how the old Omnitrix did. Ben fused aliens with the old Omnitrix by removing it's casing, therefore messing with its functions to have the Omnitrix do what it wasn't designed to do. The Biomnitrix fuses aliens by using 2 Omnitrixes and combining them together to fuse the aliens. 100% not the same thing as each other.

At this point, your literally nitpicking and asking for evidence for the most basic information.
 
>My point is that those feats can simply be outliers for him if Maltruent isnt acknowledged or established as a special chronosapien compared to the rest of his species in-universe that seperates him from them.

Your point is irrelvant, because feats>>> statements. You said it yourself. Or does this only apply when downplaying Alien X?? Alien X is established as being above the Timebomb several times, so by your logic Atomic X being erased by the Timebomb is an outlier for the timebomb, because the timebomb is never established or acknowledged as being above Alien X.

You are cherry-picking when to apply your "feats>>> statements" logic.

>The difference between 7-B and 7-A is bigger than your making it out to be here. Like, a difference of 16x . Casually stomping a high level 7-B doesn't mean casually stomping high level 7-A's isn't an outlier. Don't think it cant be one just because it's only a single tier difference.

Yeah I know what the differnce is, Maltruent has stomped 3 7-A characters, his henchman has stomped 2 7-A characters, he is consistently portrayed as being above 7-A characters. What is your point? You have literally 0 prof it's an outlier, saying "outlier" over and over again means nothing. We arent going to dismiss several feats because you think they are outliers.

>He got no amp against clockwork fusion.

It just means he is naturally that strong, not sure how this is so hard to get or why you are being so obtuse. I thought feat outweigh statements after all?

>Atomic X is superior to Atomix whos superior to High 5-A aliens. And Maltruent casually stomping 7-A's (even if they aren't outliers for him) means him even remotely harming Atomic-X isn't an outlier?

I know the differnce between 5-A and 7-A, what is youir point? Are you saying a character who is capable of stomping a 7-A character cant possibly stomp a 5-A character? Like what nonsense are you even spouting? You are getting really desperate. You cant just keep saying its an outlier without actually proving it is. Prove it's an outlier or concede, nobody has to take your word for it. Dismissing all of Maltruents feat with 0 reasoning isnt evidence of anything.

>At this point, your literally nitpicking and asking for evidence for the most basic information.

Yes I am, because nothing you have shown proves using 2 omntrix> using 1. Again, we just have to take your word for it. And even so, why would it matter? Even if Atomic X is stated to be 99% as strong as Alien X, since his feat clearly show otherwise, it doesnt matter since feats outweigh statements, according to you.
 
So here's the deal: We only talk about Existence erasure in this thread and why that means Atomic-X's tier is irrelevant in the first place. If that gets refuted then we put the entire thread on hold because literally all of both sides arguments depend on the tiering of all other characters within Ben 10 which will get revised, once those threads happen and we have a conclusion on those topics then we can recreate this thread and have this discussion again based on those conclusions because right now convincing each other is a waste of time.
 
Example why Existence erasure makes the tier of Atomic-X irrelevant:

Let's take a character with a time stop for example, he can stop time for 9 seconds, let's name him Dio.

Now another character lives in Dio's verse and he's an absolute god tier, he has a lot of hax such as black hole creation, transmutation, reality warping, etc. but we don't ever see him do a time stop, let's name him Giorno

Now a supergenius appears and says that Giorno actually has the strongest hax in the universe and can do anything and is superior to everyone, the supergenius in question lived through time and seen all possible outcomes of events, let's name him Jonathan.

Now according to Jonathan's statement Giorno would have the strongest hax in the universe and can do anything which would include Dio's time stop, which means that at the very least Giorno can time stop for 9 seconds.

Now notice how I have not written resistance to time stop in the above, it's quite simple really, none of the statements have anything to do with resistance to abilities and no-one in Dio's verse has any resistance to time stop in the first place, so we shouldn't randomly assume that Giorno has a resistance to time stop. This also means that Dio can time stop Giorno and that Giorno can time stop Dio and both have a realistic chance at defeating each other if they are within the same tier. (Giorno doesn't have immortality or Regenerationn because no-one else in the verse has it)

You can now perfectly draw the analogy with Alien X and conclude why Alien X would die by the time bomb yet still scale above it regardless. It really boils down to we don't give people who can time stop a resistance to time stop and we don't give people who can EE a resistance to EE.
 
>Your point is irrelvant, because feats>>> statements

But im not talking about statements here. Im talking about acknowledgement. Him being established as being special compared to the random run of the mill Chronosapien.

>Yeah I know what the differnce is, Maltruent has stomped 3 7-A characters, his henchman has stomped 2 7-A characters, he is consistently portrayed as being above 7-A characters.

You do know your only making it an even bigger chance of it being an outlier by giving him more 7-As to stomp right? Doing more of a feat that is already being fishy of being consistent just makes it more inconsistent. Him being above his henchman is irrelevant here. Because we're comparing Maltruent harming a 7-B (Gwen) to him stomping multiple 7-As. Making a random spike in tier like that, with no justification, increases the likelihood of it being an outlier.

You say you're aware of the tier difference but yet you argue for him to be 7-A just after only injuring a 7-B...

>We arent going to dismiss several feats because you think they are outliers.

We will if it goes against his previous feats and overall standing in the verse. We do it all the time for characters here, Maltruents no exception. Since you admit he gets no amp between fighting Gwen and fighting the Clockwork TechnoBubble fusion, that means your admitting his level of strength between doing both feats is the same. And if it's the same, then him only harming a 7-B contradicts him stomping 7-A's, otherwise Gwen wouldve gotten stomped since she wasn't 7-A.

>It just means he is naturally that strong, not sure how this is so hard to get or why you are being so obtuse.

No, it doesn't. When characters go through a spike in power with any feat, especially if it's a spike in tier, amps help to justify said spike as it shows they have a clear progression of power and have gotten stronger. Like for instance, if someone is 7-C, goes through training, and does a 6-B feat. The feat is justified by him training to reach that new level of power. But if he just randomly did a 6-B feat without any indication of getting an amp to reach that level, then the 6-B feat is thrown out as an outlier and he's kept at 7-C, which is more consistent.

I'll give you a more specific example. Goku, who was a 4-B in Dragon Ball Z, becomes 3-A in Dragon Ball Super because of his new stronger form, Super Saiyan God.

It's not being obtuse. It's checking for consistency. Something you seem to not be able to grasp.

>Are you saying a character who is capable of stomping a 7-A character cant possibly stomp a 5-A character?

Um, yes? Because High 5-A is literally thousands of times superior to 7-A? 13 whole tiers apart from each other??? You clearly dont know the unbelievable difference in power then if you seriously have to ask this....

>Prove it's an outlier or concede

The tier difference in and of itself is evidence and it's amazing how you still can't grasp this. Stomping a 7-A is absolutely no where near enough to say you can legitimately harm any tier 5, let alone defeat them. Why? Because of the unimaginable difference between 7-A and High 5-A.

Actually understand how our tiering system works before you respond to this please.

>Even if Atomic X is stated to be 99% as strong as Alien X, since his feat clearly show otherwise, it doesnt matter since feats outweigh statements, according to you.

You mean the feat of him losing to Maltruent, which is pure and simple PIS and doesnt matter. So nah.
 
Because its a massive false equivalancy to this. Time stop which isnt an offensive hax being compared to a hax that erases stuff (and in this case, Multiversal erasure)? This isn't even about resistances since if Alien X/Atomic X had something stronger than the timebombs erasure, they would have stopped it with that.

You cant cherry pick Alien X being stronger than an erasure that kills him. It's that simple.
 
It dosn't matter even if Atomic x is as strong as alien x, this won't get you anywhere and won't even affect alien x at all, Atomic x and Alien x dosn't have the same abilityes the only thing you can get from this is that Atomic x dosn't have résistance to EE while Alien x does, Atomic x begin one shot by The CTB dosn't prove anything about Alien x not begin above the time bomb which is a downplay and even if Alien x can got one shot by the CTB this would only mean that Alien x dosn't have résistance to EE (he can be erased from existence by 2-B begins) and he would still scale above the CTB
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Because its a massive false equivalancy to this. Time stop which isnt an offensive hax being compared to a hax that erases stuff (and in this case, Multiversal erasure)? This isn't even about resistances since if Alien X/Atomic X had something stronger than the timebombs erasure, they would have stopped it with that.

You cant cherry pick Alien X being stronger than an erasure that kills him. It's that simple.
Click to expand...
Erasing a multiversal erasure blast with multiversal existence erasure? I don't think it works like that, Heck Ben 10000 probably thought it did work like that and found out the hard way that it didn't.

I could have made the exact same analogy with transmutation which is an offensive hax, the point is that it doesn't matter because being above someone's hax doesn't give you a resistance. If tomorrow Broly would get a statement that he can hakai just like Beerus and also a statement that Beerus wouldn't be able to survive it then he still wouldn't get a resistance to hakai despite being superior to Beerus. If Beerus then comes and hakai's him then you would claim that Broly can't hakai like Beerus even if it where Whis making the (serious) statement.
 
Why my comment always got ignored, @Green that exactly what I've saied,even if Alien x got one shot by the CRT this would only mean that Alien x can be erased from existence by 2-B begins that have EE ability And Alien x would still be above the CTB no matter if he got one shot or not
 
>Atomic x and Alien x dosn't have the same abilityes the only thing you can get from this is that Atomic x dosn't have résistance to EE while Alien x does

This is absolutely unfounded. There is 0 reason for why Atomix would suddenly lose a resistance upon fusion, especially when we've already covered why Biomnitrix fusions being similar to glitched fusions from the OG Omnitrix is bullshit.

>and even if Alien x can got one shot by the CTB this would only mean that Alien x dosn't have résistance to EE

Unless you want to sit here and imply Alien X would stand by and do literally nothing against the CTB's attack, this would mean he's weaker than it because IF he was stronger than the timebombs erasure, then he'd use his own stronger EE to defeat the timebombs. Resistance is completely irrelevant to why the scaling is wrong.

>Erasing a multiversal erasure blast with multiversal existence erasure? I don't think it works like that

If 2 characters get into a struggle of reality warping attacks and one of them wins it, then it means one of them simply has more potent reality warping that trumps the other's reality warping. Why this wouldn't be able to happen makes 0 sense.
 
Just watched the fight scene of End of an Era and Maltruant never even actually fought Gwen he just threw her away during a time stop and every time Gwen tried to fight him he just time shifted through the attacks and the one time she hit him it did pretty much nothing, so Maltruant stomping 7-As isn't an outlier and even if he did actually fight future Gwen that would just upgrade her to 7-A since Maltruant was first shown stomping 7-As unless he suddenly lost some of his AP.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
>Atomic x and Alien x dosn't have the same abilityes the only thing you can get from this is that Atomic x dosn't have résistance to EE while Alien x does

This is absolutely unfounded. There is 0 reason for why Atomix would suddenly lose a resistance upon fusion, especially when we've already covered why Biomnitrix fusions being similar to glitched fusions from the OG Omnitrix is bullshit.

>and even if Alien x can got one shot by the CTB this would only mean that Alien x dosn't have résistance to EE

Unless you want to sit here and imply Alien X would stand by and do literally nothing against the CTB's attack, this would mean he's weaker than it because IF he was stronger than the timebombs erasure, then he'd use his own stronger EE to defeat the timebombs. Resistance is completely irrelevant to why the scaling is wrong.

>Erasing a multiversal erasure blast with multiversal existence erasure? I don't think it works like that

If 2 characters get into a struggle of reality warping attacks and one of them wins it, then it means one of them simply has more potent reality warping that trumps the other's reality warping. Why this wouldn't be able to happen makes 0 sense.
Click to expand...
that's what I'm trying to say, if Alien x was there he would would stop the CTB with his own stronger EE, As for Atomic x he didn't do anything he just punched the CTB and he got wiped out from existence since Alien x and Atomic x dosn't have the same abilityes like EE and ext.. .
2-also alien x has been stated to have the greatest power in the universe so he is above the CTB so it dosn't matter
 
EpicCookie12342 said:
Just watched the fight scene of End of an Era and Maltruant never even actually fought Gwen he just threw her away during a time stop and every time Gwen tried to fight him he just time shifted through the attacks and the one time she hit him it did pretty much nothing, so Maltruant stomping 7-As isn't an outlier and even if he did actually fight future Gwen that would just upgrade her to 7-A since Maltruant was first shown stomping 7-As unless he suddenly lost some of his AP.
Click to expand...
Hmm fair enough. It doesn't really change anything im saying here anyway whether hes 7-B or 7-A.
 
>As for Atomic x he didn't do anything he just punched the CTB and he got wiped out from existence since Alien x or Atomic x dosn't have the same abilityes.

Again, theres 0 evidence that implies they have different abilities. Your speculating Alien X would win against the timebombs erasure when it was never actually used against it. All of which should be clear for why its not enough evidence to be tiered at such a high level here.

>also alien x has been stated to have the greatest power in the universe so he is above the CTB so it dosn't matter

It does since this was debunked in the other thread I made, which you're clearly aware of.
 
I know I just wanted to set it in stone him stomping 7-As isn't an outlier though I do believe him beating Atomic-X is as he didn't really beat him, he got hit by another blast by Maltruant and detransformed where he found out Spanner was his son yada yada which is when he found out Paradox gave Spanner the suit so Ben knew what was going on yada yada, which was only to advance the plot since moments earlier Atomic-X tanked a shot from Maltruant
 
But I do believe Atomic-X doesn't actually have Time-Manipulation since if he did he would have undone the ripples in time Maltruant left since there is still the Sotobro effect plus Atomic-X never demenstrated Time-Manipulation
 
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