Chou Goku Ability Removal

[Rez]

Disagree Belmond's Hakai from chapter 28 is also portrayed in the same way toyotaro just decided to change how he portrays Hakai later on

 

[BOEGVELD]

Disagreed FRA.

 

[Vietthai96]

Energy of Destruction is Anime thing only, don't bring it into this thread. Also because he said he failed to do it that why we list the ability as Possibly EE on his profile.

 

[Jayden_Garrison]

Energy of Destruction is Anime thing only, don't bring it into this thread. Also because he said he failed to do it that why we list the ability as Possibly EE on his profile.

This would suggest otherwise in the debut of Vegeta's Ultra Ego Form, unless you think this has some separate meaning?

 

[Vietthai96]

This would suggest otherwise in the debut of Vegeta's Ultra Ego Form, unless you think this has some separate meaning?

Again that your Headcanon, until futher confirmation it still God Ki

 

[Jayden_Garrison]

Again that your Headcanon, until futher confirmation it still God Ki

What do you mean headcannon? Vegeta's training and Ultra Ego is entirely centered around Hakai. And Goku comments on how his forms Ki is different from Regular God Ki. I don't see how this could be more explicit aside from Goku saying "Wow, Vegeta must be using Energy of Destruction."

 

[Vietthai96]

What do you mean headcannon? Vegeta's training and Ultra Ego is entirely centered around Hakai. And Goku comments on how his forms Ki is different from Regular God Ki. I don't see how this could be more explicit aside from Goku saying "Wow, Vegeta must be using Energy of Destruction."

Again, that your headcanon until futher confirmation, we start going back and forth now

 

[Tarang123]

Again, that your headcanon until futher confirmation, we start going back and forth now

Well, it should be Hakai energy, but we do need some kind of direct confirmation from the manga.

 

[Vietthai96]

Well, it should be Hakai energy, but we do need some kind of direct confirmation from the manga.

We all have that kind of thinking because of Anime.
But let me say, in a hypothetical scenario where Anime doesn't exist. What did we do???, claim that only Hakai energy user can use Hakai??

So the entire premise of this crt is using two thing to downgrade:
1. Goku stated he failed at Hakai Zamasu which really vague in term of meaning and the fight scene did so Goki actually perform Hakai with visual back-up
2. Using Anime logic which established GoD can use Hakai cuz they have Energy of Destruction, which is bad argument because using different continuity to debunk other

Now come to this scene

Goku said God Ki in a general way, thus can also be assume that anyone with God Ki can potentially perform Hakai. So again, i don't see the reason to downgrade cuz Goku profile only listed as possibly EE via Hakai, as it is in a gray area, as Goku said he failed to perform it in a vague way, and the feat say otherwise. End of story

 

[Jayden_Garrison]

We all have that kind of thinking because of Anime.
But let me say, in a hypothetical scenario where Anime doesn't exist. What did we do???, claim that only Hakai energy user can use Hakai??

So the entire premise of this crt is using two thing to downgrade:
1. Goku stated he failed at Hakai Zamasu which really vague in term of meaning and the fight scene did so Goki actually perform Hakai with visual back-up
2. Using Anime logic which established GoD can use Hakai cuz they have Energy of Destruction, which is bad argument because using different continuity to debunk other

This is very disingenuous as I had far more backing it than just those two.

1. Vegeta destroying a rock in the sand way and Beerus saying he didn't erase it from existence because he used his own Ki to do it.
2. The Fact that Goku DID use his own Ki to do it as shown by Him Gathering his Own God Ki to perform the attack as Stated by Vegeta.
3. The Fact that that Vegeta in his Hakai Oriented Form Uses Ki that Different from the Regular God Ki that Goku uses.

Even if you disregard Vegeta's Destroyer form having a different kind of God Ki, the fact that Beerus said that using your own Ki doesn't erase it from Existence and the fact that Goku did exactly that should be enough to say it isn't true existence erasure. This seems pretty cut and dry.

 

[Tarang123]

We all have that kind of thinking because of Anime.
But let me say, in a hypothetical scenario where Anime doesn't exist. What did we do???, claim that only Hakai energy user can use Hakai??

So the entire premise of this crt is using two thing to downgrade:
1. Goku stated he failed at Hakai Zamasu which really vague in term of meaning and the fight scene did so Goki actually perform Hakai with visual back-up
2. Using Anime logic which established GoD can use Hakai cuz they have Energy of Destruction, which is bad argument because using different continuity to debunk other

Now come to this scene

Issue is, it should still be treated as Hakai energy just going by context. It can't be called headcanon if we have direct implication of it.

 

[Tarang123]

1. Vegeta destroying a rock in the sand way and Beerus saying he didn't erase it from existence because he used his own Ki to do it.
2. The Fact that Goku DID use his own Ki to do it as shown by Him Gathering his Own God Ki to perform the attack as Stated by Vegeta.
3. The Fact that that Vegeta in his Hakai Oriented Form Uses Ki that Different from the Regular God Ki that Goku uses.

1. What Vegeta and Goku did was completely different to each other. Vegeta just disintegrated something. Goku erased it, there's a difference.
2. Goku used his own ki cause he hadn't trained to use the Hakai and merely copied it after seeing Beerus using it, it was pretty much explained in the manga.
3. Goku says that it's different from regular god ki, not that it's different than the energy he used against Zamasu, which wouldn't work cause he directly confirms that he does actually use Hakai against Zamasu, but not correctly.

 

[Jayden_Garrison]

1. What Vegeta and Goku did was completely different to each other. Vegeta just disintegrated something. Goku erased it, there's a difference.
2. Goku used his own ki cause he hadn't trained to use the Hakai and merely copied it after seeing Beerus using it, it was pretty much explained in the manga.
3. Goku says that it's different from regular god ki, not that it's different than the energy he used against Zamasu, which wouldn't work cause he directly confirms that he does actually use Hakai against Zamasu, but not correctly.

1. We don't know that, and we won't know that until the Volume 16 Color Pages come out.
2. Irrelevant
3. We know it is different because Goku used his Ki from Blue. And we know he only tried to copy it and failed. We don't know if he succeded in Erasing Half of Zamasu from Existence.

 

[Tarang123]

1. We don't know that, and we won't know that until the Volume 16 Color Pages come out.
2. Irrelevant
3. We know it is different because Goku used his Ki from Blue. And we know he only tried to copy it and failed. We don't know if he succeded in Erasing Half of Zamasu from Existence.

1. Makes literally no sense.
2. How is it irrelevant? That's literally what happened, it's explaining context over what you clearly misinterpreted.
3. So...you're saying that he's in ssb, so he's just using his own ki, just completely getting rid of context again? Cool. Goku was using his own ki to use the hakai because he didn't know how to actually use it. Vegeta didn't even use Hakai, he just obliterated something with a basic ki blast. Using mere visuals isn't merely enough to get rid of this kind of ability.

 

[SirAlex09]

My headcanon: God Ki becomes Hakai God energy if you have the destroy mindset. And the more pure the mindset about Destruction is , the powerful the technique becomes.

(It's clear at this point that Toyotaro is referencing Toppo's GoD Mode with Ultra Ego albeit with a different desgin.)


This current chapter explains this well: Vegeta failed to master his Hakai mode / Ultra Ego because he failed to regress to his old mind that was all about destroying. That's exactly what he said. So we can assume that only the power of Hakaishin techniques scale with the mindset. Not the EE part.

This also explains why Goku's technique was so much more inferior to Beerus' because while he wanted to destroy Zamasu he doesn't have the mindset of a destroyer due to his compassionate nature.


Still in both cases the techniques were refered to as Hakai / Ki of a Hakaishin. So Goku's statement about messing up is refering to its power and Ki effectiveness because he was totally drained and left Zamasu enough time to react.

+ don't forget. Mimicry is part of Goku's powerset since Original Dragonball. It makes sense for him to copy the general mechanics of a technique. ( The only canon examples where he couldn't pull that off are Soul hax abilities like Spirit fission or Matter Manipulation bs / Magic from Buu)

 

[BetterThanYou]

Goku was actually going to erase zamasu completely but he was interupted due to zamasu holding mai as hostage.

 

[Rez]

Goku was actually going to erase zamasu completely but he was interupted due to zamasu holding mai as hostage.

Also his hakai is portrayed to be identical to the ones used by Beerus (on Zamasu) and Belmond (on some random Alien girl)

 

[BetterThanYou]

Also his hakai is portrayed to be identical to the ones used by Beerus (on Zamasu) and Belmond (on some random Alien girl)

Yeah vegeta did compare it with beerus

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]