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Cherish vs Kamen Rider Geats (Tiersetter Tourney R2M1)

Agnaa

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Starting off the second round of my tourney, after they each took out an OPM character last round, will Geats be able to keep Cherish at bay, or will she make him feel something?

Cherish will get one-shot by merely a strong sneeze from Geats.

Kamen Rider Geats will be in his Encounter Arc key, starting in Monster Form, with Boost Buckle restricted.

Speed will be equalised. Other than that, the battle assumptions will be standard; starting range will be 4km from Cherish's emotion-sensing being city-wide.

Cherish: 0

Kamen Rider Geats: 0

Inconclusive: 0
 
Of all the people Cherish has to go up against, it had to be Geats.

To elaborate on what Nice has said, all Geats Riders resist empathic manip thanks to the fact that they're able to regain their original memories and emotions from before they're dropped out of the Desire Grand Prix game, which not only removes their memories of their involvement, but also twist the person to become the opposite of what they have wished for. Take Keiwa for example, who is a hard-working good lad that wished for world peace. But when he was removed from the game, it caused him to become an unmotivated mess and start spending all his money on lottery tickets instead of donating to charity. This also caused him to favour sushi over Tanuki Soba. Another example will be Neon, who keeps running away from her wealthy family to live a mundane life with people that would truly love her. Cue her loss in the game, and now she's relishing in the wealthy lifestyle of her family and contributing to the family business. All this can be turned back to normal by touching the ID Core, which will then restore their original memories and personality.

Does he need to touch some core for that? The description is kinda confusing.
Yea he does have to do that.

Ace's willpower is ultimately the biggest gun he's packing in this fight. This guy was able to stare down and throw hands against an enemy that stole away his strength, intelligence and luck without a second thought knowing he'd most likely lose and die. His willpower to find his mom is also potent enough to have him not only reincarnate five times throughout two millennia but also retain his memories to try and find his mom again in all his subsequent future lives.
One of Cherish's scans specifically stated that her hax isn't immediate depending on the opponent's willpower, so in the event he has to touch the ID Core on his belt again and again, he'll be able to will it through easily. And then he can just keep one hand on the core and then just fight Cherish with just one arm.

I'm inclined to say that he might just be able to stay in the fight long enough to defeat Cherish with just his willpower alone.
 
One of Cherish's scans specifically stated that her hax isn't immediate depending on the opponent's willpower
That's not what it says. You could take the implication, but what it says is that their willpower wasn't enough for the strongest and most visceral emotions being shoved into their mind by force constantly. Strong Master powers in general really don't care about the will of the target, Worm just kinda isn't that setting (the closest guy to supernatural will I can think of is Chevalier, who almost had their cape name be "relentless" instead and walked out of a hospital freshly after having his abdomen stapled back together just to fight an invincible Kaiju that could kill him by pointing)
Personality and raw emotions are different, much less memory being a totally different power to manipulate. Not entirely sure how much it would apply in this case
 
Memories, personality, and desires are completely separate things from emotions. A change in emotional state after a change in one or more these things makes perfect sense because of how strong an influence these things have on emotions; however, this does not automatically mean it also grants resistance to emotional manipulation in the absence of further evidence
Yea he does have to do that.
Cherish can force him to feel doubt and apathy to prevent him from doing that
Ace's willpower is ultimately the biggest gun he's packing in this fight. This guy was able to stare down and throw hands against an enemy that stole away his strength, intelligence and luck without a second thought knowing he'd most likely lose and die. His willpower to find his mom is also potent enough to have him not only reincarnate five times throughout two millennia but also retain his memories to try and find his mom again in all his subsequent future lives.
Supernatural Willpower doesn't automatically give any resistance to Empathic Manipulation unless there are feats of that specifically. His willpower may be strong, but these are the strongest emotions he'll have felt in his entire life; these emotions are strong enough to make highly-trained ex-military soldiers kill themselves in a matter of seconds
One of Cherish's scans specifically stated that her hax isn't immediate depending on the opponent's willpower, so in the event he has to touch the ID Core on his belt again and again, he'll be able to will it through easily.
The scan specifically says their willpower WASN'T enough to stop her power from working. In addition, Wildbow (Parahumans author) has stated that even if you're specifically trained and highly experienced against these powers, it is only possible to semi-effectively delay the onset; for someone with no experience against this kind of thing and no idea what's going on, the chances aren't great regardless of willpower.
And then he can just keep one hand on the core and then just fight Cherish with just one arm.
If he's able to figure out that her power is manipulating emotions before he gets enough depression to commit death then sure, but unless he's had experience with emotion manipulators in the past, I feel like his first thought upon feeling crippling depression, apathy, and self-loathing probably wouldn't be that his emotions were being manipulated, it'd probably be depressing, apathetic, and self-loathing thoughts, especially if he had no idea there was an emotion manipulator in play at all
 
That's not what it says.
The scan specifically says their willpower WASN'T enough to stop her power from working.
My bad, I worded it wrongly, I meant to say that his willpower will be enough to stave off the effect of her hax long enough to reach for the ID core.

You could take the implication, but what it says is that their willpower wasn't enough for the strongest and most visceral emotions being shoved into their mind by force constantly. Strong Master powers in general really don't care about the will of the target, Worm just kinda isn't that setting (the closest guy to supernatural will I can think of is Chevalier, who almost had their cape name be "relentless" instead and walked out of a hospital freshly after having his abdomen stapled back together just to fight an invincible Kaiju that could kill him by pointing)
Supernatural Willpower doesn't automatically give any resistance to Empathic Manipulation unless there are feats of that specifically. His willpower may be strong, but these are the strongest emotions he'll have felt in his entire life; these emotions are strong enough to make highly-trained ex-military soldiers kill themselves in a matter of seconds
Wildbow (Parahumans author) has stated that even if you're specifically trained and highly experienced against these powers, it is only possible to semi-effectively delay the onset; for someone with no experience against this kind of thing and no idea what's going on, the chances aren't great regardless of willpower.
While it doesn't automatically cover that in a straightforward manner, Ace is a completely different beast than anyone you have mentioned here. As I've said, Ace has gone through over 2000 years competing and winning in death games and battle royales to find his mother across different reincarnations. At any point (especially in such a long and arduous length of time) he could've just said "**** this," and give up on his desire, but he pressed onwards till now. Hell, his willpower is supernatural in the fact that it allowed him to not only reincarnate many times within those 2 millennia, but transcend it and still retain his memories. Not to mention, to keep his mum alive, Geats literally willed a new rider form into existence. Geats' willpower completely and utterly tops anything the Parahumans series considers supernatural willpower by kilometres, even those with training. There's no way he won't be able to power through, and it just gives him some trouble at worst.


Personality and raw emotions are different, much less memory being a totally different power to manipulate. Not entirely sure how much it would apply in this case
Memories, personality, and desires are completely separate things from emotions. A change in emotional state after a change in one or more these things makes perfect sense because of how strong an influence these things have on emotions; however, this does not automatically mean it also grants resistance to emotional manipulation in the absence of further evidence
Desires bring drive to a person. Their personality, memories and emotions are determined by their desires, especially if it is dear to them or a matter of life or death for them. They'll do whatever it takes to pursue and eventually make their wishes come true (like Keiwa donating for his desire for world peace and Neon running away from home). Take their desires away, and you're basically ripping away what they are and what they have become. Now Keiwa always feels lazy and unmotivated and Neon, who originally has much disdain for her family, is now enjoying the fixed arrangements her family had made for her. All of that stays permanent till they touch an ID Core (anyone's one is fine, it works the same).
TLDR: It isn't just the emotions that are being manipulated, desires come in packages of it among other things. And the ID Cores cover this up.

Cherish can force him to feel doubt and apathy to prevent him from doing that
An action that is just reaching for the middle of his belt will just be easy pickings for his willpower. And from the scans I've read, the manipulated emotions feel disconnected rather than being derived from the receivers' personal baggages and whatnot. Sure, she has the telepathy to see to it, but her reading seems vague (case in point being that she'll just know that Geats is fighting for his desire to find his mum. It's not like the memories or thoughts would be warped to fit the manipulated emotions. Straightforward emotions based on what Cherish gets from her telepathy can only go so far without being able to completely tap into Geats as a whole.

If he's able to figure out that her power is manipulating emotions before he gets enough depression to commit death then sure, but unless he's had experience with emotion manipulators in the past, I feel like his first thought upon feeling crippling depression, apathy, and self-loathing probably wouldn't be that his emotions were being manipulated, it'd probably be depressing, apathetic, and self-loathing thoughts, especially if he had no idea there was an emotion manipulator in play at all
I think this is just countered by what Geats as a person is. Ace is the kind of guy that always knows what he's doing (no matter how outlandish it may be), planning steps ahead to get closer and closer to his one desire to find his mum. The moment he starts to uncharacteristically falter, or any foreign emotions start to plague him, he's going to sense something amiss about his opponent. In the event that he somehow gets his emotional buttons pushed in the wrong way, it's going to be more detrimental to Cherish rather than Geats because he'd just rage, and either go all out or will a new rider form to deal with Cherish no holds barred.
 
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