Chelshia vs Crystal (3 Left)

[Moritzva]

With every win, with every smacking defeat delivered to 8-Cs, my will grows stronger, the flame within growing, consuming...

Chelshia: 1 (Jacky)

Crystal: 4 (Butters, Go, Zark, Schmuck)

Inconclusive:

Speed Equalized. Battle takes place in The Sanctum of Wrath. 8-C forms used and nothing above 8-C allowed. Gamma Guts/Rad Weapons and Sharp Teeth restricted.

 

[Moritzva]

As one of the few NT supporters, I will argue for Crystal where needed.

 

[Jackythejack]

How tf will chel get past that range.

Also I hate you

 

[Moritzva]

@Jacky


Chelshia's Pla

..also, speed amps, dashes, & buildings.

 

[Jackythejack]

I mean anything stop crystal from continuously teleporting away even if she does get close somehow. And what guns does she have access to.

 

[Moritzva]

You know Chel and her defensive techniques, not me.

Any 8-C non-Rad weapon. Poison weapons exist but their potency is more or less unknown and nothing absurdly impressive on their own, even if they could negate durability.

Triple Machine Gun, Pop Gun, and homing Bolts seems like a good choice.

AP values?

 

[Moritzva]

Checked AP values. Far above 1.18 tons for Crystal (takes a whopping 1 damage from Lil' Hunter's stomp, most durable mutant in the cast) while Chelshia scales above ~0.6 tons, much higher with Berserk Mode, which one-shots people who would otherwise be equal-ish.

 

[Jackythejack]

Does she spam teleportation and how far does she teleport

 

[Moritzva]

It has a short cooldown as per game mechanics, but otherwise, free reign. Teleportation at least goes a dozen meters or so? (I'd have to check, I don't use the mutation often since it's hilariously bad. Same with Gamma Guts and Sharp Teeth, ironically.)

 

[Jackythejack]

If it's only a dozen meters she can actually handle that. She's dealt with those who can teleport.

Let's assume Chelshia does get close. Her chest form is going to make shots just not effect her as nothing in-game with like one special exception can even scratch it so that's going to Be helpful. Berserk mode is also going to be great because it evens the playing field. A lot.

i just don't know if there's in-character shit I should worry about.

 

[Moritzva]

Danmaku, strafing, bombs, and lasers. Plus Stress.

 

[Jackythejack]

Right the main issues here. I'm assuming crystal follows gun logic and reloads yeah? Just curious. How would she respond to getting pummeled up close?

 

[Moritzva]

Whip out my Melee Crystal build with a wrench, probably. That's how I play the game.

('Reloading' only seems present for the largest guns that have long cooldowns between shots. Which Stress reduces. Though, no piercing damage, oddly enough.)

Is there any set number for Chelshia's Berserk Mode amp?

 

[Jackythejack]

In-game it says you deal triple damage but I dunno if we count that as game mechanics or not?

 

[Moritzva]

I mean, if it strictly said triple damage as a description, that's probably fair enough to give as a number.

How long does it last? Are there downsides?

 

[Jackythejack]

It lasts however long she wants it too until d e a t h.

In-game you take double damage so it's a bit of an issue.

 

[Moritzva]

It lasts however long she wants it too until d e a t h.

In-game you take double damage so it's a bit of an issue.

Yea that would be quite bad.

So what are your thoughts?

 

[Jackythejack]

Sorry didn't realize you replied.

I mean it's kinda tough because if things get too bad Chelshia can always just go into her chest and wait for a good opportunity, and her dash attack/speed amp allows her to dodge bullets fairly well so she can probably close that gap? How good is crystal at dodging shit? Specifically like melee atacks?

 

[Moritzva]

The chest is helpful, though I dunno if it would fare well against fire or explosive attacks that would knock her around.

Nuclear Throne (one of the hardest bullethells I've played, mind you) has a Mutant running through a gauntlet of different realms of mutated enemies who all do massive amounts of damage upon hit, with hellishly large amounts of danmaku. Melee feats are hard to quantify (since it's closer to 'stay out of melee in the first place') but she knows how to improvise with various melee weapons, and has Stress to amp firing and reaction speeds by nearly x2 depending on how damaged she is.

As for dodging shit... Well, it's a bullethell, and one that makes Touhou look cheap, so that should answer that.

 

[Jackythejack]

Ew okay, but it seems like if she were to get close then Crystal might begin to struggle a little bit.

 

[Moritzva]

Long Arms plus a wrench would give her a melee range advantage, I imagine.

 

[Jackythejack]

Possibly? Dunno on that. Also I was under the impression this person floated for some reason, but anyways, I think that a shockwave is going to knock crystal off balance, and not only that but Chelshia is probably quite a ways better at melee combat considering the more melee focused enemies she has fought, and I think she can easily get within that range.

 

[Moritzva]

The matter is getting in range against a quite skilled guncrystal firing versatile amounts of varying danmaku from a range, and being able to approach through it all.

And getting past Stress, probably.

 

[Jackythejack]

Yeah stress would be an issue, however the buildings would help her maintain cover (can I assume the environment is indestructible-)

Chest form helps a lot though because it means she doesn't take nearly as much damage as she could. Berserk mode...could possibly help but she's gonna get ****** if she's hit even once.

 

[Moritzva]

(no)

Without Berserk, the over x2 gap is going to hurt quite badly. With Berserk Form, she's taking close to 5x damage, so that's no good.

 

[Jackythejack]

Two times AP gap shouldn't be too bad. She's fought those who are stronger than her before, and it's not exactly an insurmountable advantage.

 

[Moritzva]

Perhaps, but Crystal is more than experienced in fighting enemies not only stronger, but even fodder capable of doing a ton of damage. Here, she has quite a sizable AP advantage, one she'll enjoy.

 

[Jackythejack]

Fair enough but the AP advantage isn't insurmountable is the only point I'm trying to make here. I do feel like Chelshia will be able to close the distance due to her pretty damn good mobility, but I think the main question is whether she can beat Crystal at melee combat

 

[Moritzva]

She may be able to close the gap, but at what cost? How many attacks? Will she be able to survive a shotgun/shell attack?

 

[Jackythejack]

Possibly? Depends on how weak the fodder is and if she's more powerful. I think she can arguably survive, and she could avoid a defeat amount of attacks via chest form alone. It'd be slow but she can inch her way along.

 

[Moritzva]

Fodder can die in only a few shots (at the absolute lowest levels) but do sizable damage to the mutants - post-loop and endgame fodder can survive plenty of attacks and can absolutely obliterate, damage-wise.

Seems like Crystal has a skill advantage. Dodging would be hard.

 

[Jackythejack]

How much danmaku is there that crystal can dish out?

 

[Moritzva]

In 8-C, it's not absurd (compared to some High 8-C weapons and the bosses she can face) but firing speeds are incredibly fast and her gun skills are both very good, and honed in with enhanced accuracy. Explosions, fire, homing bolts, and similar are all staples, alongside spraying gunfire.

 

[Jackythejack]

Got any video? Just want to see what I'm working with.

 

[Moritzva]

School wifi blocks videos, so I'll grab a random gameplay video.

Might need to skip through the start, and you definitely won't be seeing everything. I dunno if the gameplay video is of any quality, though, since I haven't watched it.

(That, and Crystal has far more Mutations than the fellow in the video)

It does overall seem like approaching will be difficult, and that she's somewhat outskilled at a range. Melee is difficult to tell, but the AP difference is rough.

 

[Jackythejack]

Okay so I didn't watch much of it but it looks like she deals with Danmaku a lot more than she actually causes danmaku

 

[Moritzva]

Okay so I didn't watch much of it but it looks like she deals with Danmaku a lot more than she actually causes danmaku

As I said, it picks up massively post-loop, where every attack is a massive AoE of death that explodes into more shots or does something else big and explosive.

For here? Mostly rapid fire attacks, homing, AoE with explosives, Triple Machine Gun... Stress will definitely cause some heavy danmaku with the right weapons, and The Minigun is pretty damn dangerous.

 

[Jackythejack]

You do in fact have a fair point. What I saw wasn't that bad and I skipped like halfway through the video (she was fighting a weird chair looking thing with vats in it) but from what I saw...it looks a bit manageable? With speed amps Chelshia should be able to move faster than the bullets and with her chest form she should be able to just not be effected by such an attack.

 

[Moritzva]

Of course, the counterargument is that a more skilled opponent in range with an AP advantage, versatility, plus Stress can overwhelm what Chel could toss at her.

 

[Jackythejack]

Right I gotchu fam. My counter argument is that the AP advantage is very minor (I normally don't see a two times AP advantage matter much in vs threads), Chelshia has pretty good versatility herself, but moreso for when she gets into punching range, and the only thing I could see being a problem is stress but at the same time I'm iffy on it. Using the environment to her advantage is going to help a lot, as well as things like harpy boost and things that cause her to leap across pretty long distances (Khimera speedruns look really ******* fast)

Also it sounds like they're both skilled in their own respective ranges, Crystal being better with guns and Chelshia being better at melee form what I understand