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Charlemagne's Joeyuse Ordre Downgrade

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I can't actually seem to find Gawain tanking it btw, and this is unironically JO's only feat and its a ??? rank so it doesn't really scale to anything, you might be able to argue it can stay

In any case I guess a justification would be like "as a Noble Phantasm which combines both Joyeuse and the weapons of all of Charlemagne's paladins, it should possess power exceeding that of Durandal, an A+ ranked Noble Phantasm"
 
Paul_Frank said:
I can't actually seem to find Gawain tanking it btw, and this is unironically JO's only feat and its a ??? rank so it doesn't really scale to anything, you might be able to argue it can stay
Click to expand...
@God900 said it comes from Mana Point shennanigans
Hmmm, i dunno about that, at best that give Gawain Low 6-B durability
Paul_Frank said:
In any case I guess a justification would be like "as a Noble Phantasm which combines both Joyeuse and the weapons of all of Charlemagne's paladins, it should possess power exceeding that of Durandal, an A+ ranked Noble Phantasm"
Click to expand...
Noted, i'm going to edit it later.....In ThIs HelL caLlEd MoBiLe
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
@TrueKingOfHeroes I swear if you still hold this CRT after Paul gave his input i'm going to doxxing you
Click to expand...
It won't stop me

Paul_Frank said:
In any case I guess a justification would be like "as a Noble Phantasm which combines both Joyeuse and the weapons of all of Charlemagne's paladins, it should possess power exceeding that of Durandal, an A+ ranked Noble Phantasm"
Click to expand...
Doesn't Durandal have a Low 1-C shennanigans?

How about Gawain being able to withstand VS in FoxTail, is that an outlier?
 
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
Doesn't Durandal have a Low 1-C shennanigans?
Click to expand...
It's weird, Mandricardo uses Rêve de Durandal to block a shot from Artemis, but like, Durandal is not low 1-C when Gil uses it, or when Hector uses it, so it seems like it's a thing unique to Mandricardo, likely via a combination of his other NP boosting it, and the wish to save his friends
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
How about Gawain being able to withstand VS in FoxTail, is that an outlier?
Click to expand...
I'd have to check the fight again, but probably, although a lot of stuff in FoxTail has circumstances that allow it, i.e Gawain piercing K&K because it was actually negated by code cast rather than via power or hax, etc
 
Paul_Frank said:
It's weird, Mandricardo uses Rêve de Durandal to block a shot from Artemis, but like, Durandal is not low 1-C when Gil uses it, or when Hector uses it, so it seems like it's a thing unique to Mandricardo, likely via a combination of his other NP boosting it, and the wish to save his friends
Click to expand...
Durandal when used by Hector has tier 1 stuff though.

Paul_Frank said:
I'd have to check the fight again, but probably, although a lot of stuff in FoxTail has circumstances that allow it, i.e Gawain piercing K&K because it was actually negated by code cast rather than via power or hax, etc
Click to expand...
It's because of his Numeral of the Saint skill, but it's still strange to think it can withstand tier 1 attacks.
 
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
Durandal when used by Hector has Low 1-C stuff though.
Click to expand...
Does it? It doesn't when used as the spear at least, but did I forget something it did when he used it as a sword?
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
It's because of his Numeral of the Saint skill, but it's still strange to think it can withstand tier 1 attacks.
Click to expand...
I see, yeah probably an outlier since non tier 1 stuff hurts numeral of the saint Gawain too
 
Paul_Frank said:
Does it? It doesn't when used as the spear at least, but did I forget something it did when he used it as a sword?
Click to expand...
Ah right, it's from the spear, but isn't it the same since he can freely summon one of the two regardless of what class he's summoned to?

So that implies both have the same potential ?
Paul_Frank said:
I see, yeah probably an outlier since non tier 1 stuff hurts numeral of the saint Gawain too
Click to expand...
Holy shit, so many outliers
 
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
Ah right, it's from the spear, but isn't it the same since he can freely summon one of the two regardless of what class he's summoned to?

So that implies both have the same potential ?
Click to expand...
No I meant I can't remember Hector doing anything tier 1 with the spear, and it's possibly weaker than thrown Gae Bolg considering the latter breaks Rho Aias and Durandina doesn't.

The spear and sword should probably have the same potential yeah since Hector can always just turn it from spear to sword, but I think Mandricardo just has it stronger cause of Oath of Durandal possibly, considering he's the only one with a feat on that level using it
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
Holy shit, so many outliers
Click to expand...
Only 2 and only if we say JO is also low 1-C it's fine ez
 
Paul_Frank said:
No I meant I can't remember Hector doing anything tier 1 with the spear, and it's possibly weaker than thrown Gae Bolg considering the latter breaks Rho Aias and Durandina doesn't.

The spear and sword should probably have the same potential yeah since Hector can always just turn it from spear to sword, but I think Mandricardo just has it stronger cause of Oath of Durandal possibly, considering he's the only one with a feat on that level using it
Click to expand...
That feat happened in the Atlantis Lostbelt when Hector blocked Artemis' beam of light with his spear.

Only 2 and only if we say JO is also low 1-C it's fine ez
Click to expand...
Right, we just need to play pretend just for one person's happiness.
 
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TrueKingOfHeroes said:
That feat happened back in the Atlantis Lostbelt when Hector blocked Artemis' beam with his spear.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah I remember now. I feel like you could try to argue that Hector was stronger, he was counter summoned by Achilles using himself as a catalyst, and was summoned only to block the single shot from Artemis so you could try to say he might have been buffed

Otherwise Durandal might just be Low 1-C, which would give more reasons for JO to also keep its rating, idk
 
Paul_Frank said:
Oh yeah I remember now. I feel like you could try to argue that Hector was stronger, he was counter summoned by Achilles using himself as a catalyst, and was summoned only to block the single shot from Artemis so you could try to say he might have been buffed

Otherwise Durandal might just be Low 1-C, which would give more reasons for JO to also keep its rating, idk
Click to expand...
Well, there's no explicit sentence stating that Hector is much stronger than normal summons so JO should stay at tier 1 for valid reasons, i guess.
 
The series of events is that dead Achilles summons Hector, Hector throws Durandina so hard it blows his arm off or something, it blocks the laser, then as he's fading away since his mission was complete, he gives the spear to Mandricardo who then uses Durandal
 
It's a weak argument as Paul said earlier. The fact that he was actually able to blocked Artemis's beam of light so that Chaldeans wouldn't be hit, was still impressive, and deserved tier 1 stuff.
 
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And if he's under circuminates like Herc get buffed to oblivion by Sitonai to block Surtr attack for a moment then i'm buying it, however the fact he just randomly summoned and all of the sudden the spear can block Artemis laser isn't making any sense at all
 
Indestructible, huh? Now thats something
But not sure if that warranted enough to be Low 1-C, because at least from what i thinking it would be NLF
But then this isn't my best to explain, also the fact that imgur isn't working here lel
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
@God900 said it comes from Mana Point shennanigans
Hmmm, i dunno about that, at best that give Gawain Low 6-B durability
Click to expand...
Not only Mana point can Buff Servants.

Gawain was also amped by "Artoria's morale " in a Extra battle mission.

In which him, along with Lancelot were increasing their power drastically.
It was stated their power was "going rampart ".


After Gawain is amped by Artoria, a red sparky aura sourranded his sword and later on his entire body.

Thought this could give Artoria power granting.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
Indestructible, huh? Now thats something
But not sure if that warranted enough to be Low 1-C, because at least from what i thinking it would be NLF
But then this isn't my best to explain, also the fact that imgur isn't working here lel
Click to expand...
it's just a support feat, no word NLF because it's proven to be capable of blocking Low 1-C attacks.
 
Some of these weapons getting Tier 1 shit is so weird when looking at lore or their general useage, VS makes sense given its lorenis literally of a God Killer and we know how nuts Hindu myth is.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
Indestructible, huh? Now thats something
But not sure if that warranted enough to be Low 1-C, because at least from what i thinking it would be NLF
But then this isn't my best to explain, also the fact that imgur isn't working here lel
Click to expand...
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
it's just a support feat, no word NLF because it's proven to be capable of blocking Low 1-C attacks.
Click to expand...
Wrong, Durandal is Indestructible because of the three miracles of the sword, not because of its durability. Which is on the realm of hax. At best you can list the sword have Low 1-C Invulnerability, but doesn't scale to anyone
 
Vietthai96 said:
Wrong, Durandal is Indestructible because of the three miracles of the sword, not because of its durability. Which is on the realm of hax. At best you can list the sword have Low 1-C Invulnerability, but doesn't scale to anyone
Click to expand...
So a tier 1 invul ability? Thats make more sense
 
PsychoWarper said:
Some of these weapons getting Tier 1 shit is so weird when looking at lore or their general useage, VS makes sense given its lorenis literally of a God Killer and we know how nuts Hindu myth is.
Click to expand...
it was natural since it was a Moon Cell wank.

Anyway, ??? Rank NP still deserves to be in its own league without downscaling to tier 6.
 
For the record, that Durandal only has Low 1-C durability not Low 1-C AP with exactly the same feats as JO. So I think it's better to change JO to Low 1-C durability to be the same as Durandal's reasoning
 
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