Changing Low 2-C to High 3-A

[Eligio_Budde]

The character tiering page says that low 2-C characters are the ones who may create/destroy the space-time of one or few universes, but I notice people reserves low 2-C to characters that creates/destroys the space-time of one universe.

So maybe is neccesary a change?

 

[Antvasima]

No. Definitely not. Destroying the physical matter of a universe is still only a 3-dimensional feat. We need to make a clear distinction between the two concepts.

That said, given that fiction itself recurrently muddles said distinction, several profiles within this wiki likely mix up the two said conepts, despite that they are extremely different. It is an ongoing problem, but not a valid reason to muddle our logical foundation.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, "High 3-A" would be more akin to being able to destroy all physical matter in a 3-Dimensional space much larger than our own universe.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

What tier you would be if you destroyed the physical matter of 10^500 universes?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, to access all of them at once in timelines parallel to each other you would still have to have 4-dimensional power, so likely low 2-A.

However, I am not personally certain. It might be High 3-A, if they were all strung up beside each other in the same 3-Dimensional space.

As I have said before, what we are doing here is not an exact science, and fiction is often not specific enough about sticking to distinctions that fit with our own.

 

[Antvasima]

DarkLK is much more of an expert regarding these issues than I am, but A6colute might be able to help as well.

 

[A6colute]

What tier you would be if you destroyed the physical matter of 10^500 universes?

Low 2-A. Because you need access to all of them.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Ok, thanks

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

btw

isnt the upper limit of 2-B 10^10^10^7 universes, there are at least those many, but the human brain can only distinguish 10^10^16

the upper limit is, of course likely an 11-dimensionnal infinite multiverse (but i hear that it is mathematically possible for it to be infinite-dimensional)- but lets leave the last part for now

 

[Antvasima]

The upper limit of 2-B is 10^500 universes, the theorised number of universes in our multiverse.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

but the theorized lower limit is 10^10^10^7

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The number that I found was 10^500 though, and since all of the pages in this wiki have adjusted for it, I think that it is probably best to stick with it. Nothing is perfect, but this is a fairly good limit, I think.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

thats fine, but i mentioned the bigger number for the record

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that we could change it to 10^700 if you can find a better/more reliable reference than the one that we used previously.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

it really doesnt matter tbh, since fictions are never specific about number of universes in large finite multiverses

the source i used was this

http://www.technologyreview.com/vie...culate-number-of-universes-in-the-multiverse/

the mit tech review

it said that there are at least 10^10^10^7 universes (which means 10^10^ 10 million universes), but the mind can only distinguish 10^10^16

again, fiction is not compatible with cutting edge physics, so a change might not be needed, but i just put this out there for info

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would appreciate if you could find the reference, as it is kind of embarrassing if we unintentionally spread misinformation.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

i added the source


edit: another source

http://www.universetoday.com/42696/if-we-live-in-a-multiverse-how-many-are-there/

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. The source you used was from 2009, and the source that I used was from 2013. Maybe the scientists revised their calculation until then?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

as far as the scietific consensus is considered, many physicists think an 10-D space time dimensions, and another contender, the m-theory has 11-D

so that wud make the multiverse a 1-C/high 1-C

that is as far as the consensus is considered

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that keeping our current system seems most appropriate. It works fine, and starting to thoroughly rethinking and redefining it, to then reformat the entire wiki would be far beyond what can currently be demanded of us.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

i think the current system is okay

i have seen no conflict about it with any fictional multiverse so far

so it seems to be ok

 

[Sheoth]

Keep it the same.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

I think 2-C is too broad of a category and overlaps with 2-B.

2-C should be universe + and 2-B should be multi-universal to multiversal.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I think 2-C is too broad of a category and overlaps with 2-B.
2-C should be universe + and 2-B should be multi-universal to multiversal.

That would just make 2-B even more absurdly broad.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

I think 2-C is too broad of a category and overlaps with 2-B.
2-C should be universe + and 2-B should be multi-universal to multiversal.

That would just make 2-B even more absurdly broad.

Not really since we don't have that many 2-B characters.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I meant the category itself.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Really? We have The Beyonders, Darkseid, Zeedmillenniummon, Getter Emperor, Phoenix, Abraxis, Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal, Alduin, Doctor Doom, Royoko Hakubi, Solaris, Sheogorath, Problem Sleuth, Mobster Kingpin, Post-Super Genesis Wave Sonic, Exdeath (Though his profile needs a little work), Archie Sigma, Dimentio, Champion of Cyrodill, Doctor Fate, The Hist, Y'ffre, Mephala, Boethiah, Azura, Arkay, Sanguine and Meridia. And by "even more absurdly broad", Azathoth meant that it would mean 2-10^500-1 as opposed to 1,001-10^500-1.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Really? We have The Beyonders, Darkseid, Zeedmillenniummon, Getter Emperor, Phoenix, Abraxis, Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal, Alduin, Doctor Doom, Royoko Hakubi, Solaris, Sheogorath, Problem Sleuth, Mobster Kingpin, Post-Super Genesis Wave Sonic, Exdeath (Though his profile needs a little work), Archie Sigma, Dimentio, Champion of Cyrodill, Doctor Fate, The Hist, Y'ffre, Mephala, Boethiah, Azura, Arkay, Sanguine and Meridia.

That was like the damn Pokerap of multiversals.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Yeah, I specifically searched through the Tier 2 category to find all the 2-B characters. And I could've just included the Multi-Universal ones to see how much more absurdly broad it would be, but I decided not to.

 

[Sheoth]

That was like the damn Pokerap of multiversals.

This forced me to read the list as a sick ryhme

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

This forced me to read the list as a sick ryhme

You be startin' some sick fires, bro.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you all know that it is absurdly broad for a good reason. Our own multiverse is theorised to be that large, and we need some form of buffer category between characters that can only destroy 1000 universes, and ones that can destroy an infinite amount.

I am not at all a fan of making a 1000 to Infinite universes category. It would unnecessarily lump together characters of wildly different power levels. Our current system was settled on through a long wiki-wide discussion. I think that it works fine, and definitely don't wish to change it.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Eligio_Budde]

No. Definitely not. Destroying the physical matter of a universe is still only a 3-dimensional feat. We need to make a clear distinction between the two concepts.
That said, given that fiction itself recurrently muddles said distinction, several profiles within this wiki likely mix up the two said conepts, despite that they are extremely different. It is an ongoing problem, but not a valid reason to muddle our logical foundation.

Well so let me understand: Every Tier-2 Character is at least a 4 spatial dimensional being? That's what really makes me confuse since many 3 spatial dimensional characters are able to create/destroy more than one 3-D space-time continuum.

 

[Antvasima]

Logically they should have to be, but many fictions do not follow such conventions, so not necessarily. There are characters that can affect higher-dimensional spacetime without being higher-dimensional themselves.