Changing Hulk and other characters' stats with a Varies

[00potato]

So now your argument devolved into, "well it just doesn't feel right" If the scans and calcs support something and it is consistent (or in this case inconsistent.) then the Varies makes sense. So what if scaling become difficult, we could always scale them to other characters, marvel is a big verse. By your magneto logic all characters who are just "normal people." wouldn't go above tier 10 even if feats support it, they are just normal guys eh right Zark?

It would not make him unusable with a varied tier anyway, just highlight specific tiers he could be on (Usually 4-B, sometimes tier 5 or 3 etc.)

 

[The_Impress]

At least I have an argument. Your argument is "idfk slap whatever i just want this over with". Like that oversimplification?

Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics

• "Common sense: Common sense will also be necessary to distinguish between outliers and proper feats. As such, certain power-scaling will be accepted only with community consensus."

"We could always scale them to other characters" find me scaling for base Glorian (Marvel Comics) and Xemnu (Marvel Comics). And for the record, no, we can't, if the character's own rogues gallery can't scale to him you're doing it massively wrong. This sets a dangerous precedent for just slapping a variable, being a lazy ****, and calling it a day.

Daredevil (Marvel Comics), Punisher (Marvel Comics) and Spider-Man (Marvel Comics). By this logic, all of them are "9-C to Low 7-C, possibly Low 1-C". Can you like, use simple logic while hamfistingly attempting to dismantle an argument? And for the record, no, they have a consistency for 9-A to the piunt it is unignorable. Hulk gets 6ish iffy feats and people are calling downgrade.

It would, because now his stat amping makes him flux across entire tiers.

 

[Eficiente]

You can't compare Hulk to any of the characters above nor most others in Marvel, those are way, way more consistent in comparison. Even FF characters, which is saying a lot. Hulk having a Varias just shows his character more accurately.

 

[The_Impress]

"You can't compare Hulk to any other character" you are LITERALLY basing this over a single tier interlap between 5-A and 4-B. He isn't more inconsistent than Thor or ANY other 4-Bs, hell his own rogues galleries and related characters have sole scaling to 4-B from other characters as well. He is a CONSISTENT 4-B

"FF characters are more consistent" Reminder this revision of yours came from a Thing revision thread where he showed just how all over the place he is. Also in the light of recent Mister Fantastic downgrades, massively wrong.

"Hulk having Varies shows his character more accurately" Then make him Tier 5 to Tier 3, you're cherrypicking feats AND pretending you're being inclusive of it. And no, it doesn't, either you accept outliers exist or you don't, you can't do literally both at the same time.

 

[00potato]

It unlike the characters you are bringing up, their is a reason for the inconsistency, so it should be part of the profile. It isn't just slapping whatever, it is using what explanations that are given in verse when revising a profile.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

find me scaling for base Glorian (Marvel Comics) and Xemnu (Marvel Comics). And for the record, no, we can't

From eyeballing his profile. Xenmu also scales from Juggernaut who scales from Thor. Glorian scales from Gray Hulk who I don't think is affected by any of this.

 

[Eficiente]

What a mess, there is mostly nothing left but mostly disagreement so either other users come to say something or I predict I would just find myself agreeing with my own proposals in the future when someone else may decide that bring up the same matter.

 

[The_Impress]

When they will, we'll see then.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that Zark's suggestion of "Varies. Usually 4-B" is the most easily workable solution for the time being. I think that Kepekley was planning to revise the Hulk and characters that scale from him at a later date though.

 

[DanielIH15]

The major problem I see here, as I already said, is that the reasoning is "Hulk along Thor is 4-B, alone 5-B" and... What? How do you know that when he fought, I don't know, to those Leaders robots he wasn't 4-B? Or the Abomination? To say that Hulk is not angry enough to be 4-B (in other words, that he's not in high level of anger) when fighting againts his arch enemies, the people he hates the most, is just inaccurate in my opinion.
And I'm with Zark here, Hulk is usually 4-B, or even 4-B in base, weaker than Thor, but not three tiers below, specially because said enemies, and some allies (or frenemies), like Red-Hulk or Red She-Hulk, don't have variable strength.

 

[Proper9]

Hulk without being at World Breaker State busted Umar's shields who is in par if not slightly below her brother Dormammu who is above Odin himself. Hulk's energy burst which was abruptly released when he entered in contact with Red She Hulk incinerated the Mindless Ones which Umar stated were too much for her to stop them in Heart of The Monster. It also worths to note Umar a top villain of Classic Dr. Strange who in classic days was portrayed as a universal force IIRC.

Hulk has always been shown to be the equivalent of a vastly powerful nuclear weapon that could grow in power as needed, making the military might of the entire world look like a joke by comparison. In the years before the Hulk has overpowered force equal to the sun, devastating dimensions, Holding spatial singularities, punching through time-storms, smashing buildings made to withstand massive nuclear assault, withstanding planet devastating assaults, gamma-bombs and other nukes at point blank range, fought universal ++ characters, etc.

Hulk increases power when his body is pressed toward it physical limit, either by the pressure he or others put on him. His power activates in instance that the body is being overtaxed by it's own activity or overtaxed by other outside forces and meets those demands by growing stronger to in order to avoid death. The Hulk doesn't increase in strength just because he wants to. The act of Hulk drawing multiversal atomic energy into himself is only a matter of fulfilling his body's own personal need. He get's his power from TOBA.

 

[The_Impress]

... and the point of this message? We already know he has far greater feats. Umar is horrendous to scale from btw, she's treated as too weak for her own tier and especially far below her own brother by a significant margin.

He's already listed far above military's might and nukes and even suns for that matter, so irrelevant, time storm punching and "devastating dimensions" is unquantifiable in an un-fun way, and having a multiversal source doesn't necessarily imply multiversal power.

Explaining Hulk is unneeded because we already understand how he works. Also not necessarily, as stated before, his emotional state is always a factor in how much strength he possesses, he has shown multiple times the ability to summoun strength without getting overtaxed and being godstomped yet unable to access his full strength, just because Al Ewing decided to make up his own lore, doesn't wipe out decades of how his powers fundamentally work.

Jumping to Low 2-C requires for such a major character to consistently have explicit universe busting stuff, absolute best argument here is 3-A, which we already establish as peak.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we consider High 3-A to be his peak power display, but except for that I agree.