Changing Hulk and other characters' stats with a Varies

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

1. Isn't Sentry quite consistently significantly more powerful than characters on Thor's level?

2. Are those modified orbital lasers 4-B or what?

3. Comics are inconsistent, Hulk sometimes gets defeated by weak stuff when really angry as well as vice versa, like when he knocked down Zeus when rather calm. But he seems to have quite a number of feats higher than 4-B, and not power scaling, but feats on his own.

4. Thor has 7 universe shaking feats too, although they could be outliers.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Also are we downgrading 5-A to 5-B?

 

[Overlord775]

1. They are severally outmatched, but not completly fodderized iirc

2. That's the max marvel tech usually goes minus when Richard goes bazinga

3, Zeus is on par with Odin, so i don't really have to say why that feat is a clear outlier

The problem is that those feats aren't just anger based, they are based on the wim of the writer

4. That's a 2-C feat

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

1. Almost literally every character is not completely fodderized by another in Marvel Comics.

2. So there's not a rating for them then?

3. Yes it is a clear outlier, that's my point lol. My point is that the relationship between the anger level and power of Hulk is often inconsistent.

4. No, shaking the universe is 4-A. I do not know where you got 2-C from, when 2-C is for 4-dimensional stuff.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Sentry's being capable of shredding planets at subatomic size calculated to be 4-A assuming mass is proportional to strength, although I'm iffy about this too myself.

 

[Overlord775]

1. ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

2. Scaling to Iron's Man top armors

3. Then isn't it just inconsistencies aka not really ratable ?

4. Shaking a universe is 4-A, shaking multiple universes requires the power to bridge the gap between universes and so it's rated 2-C iirc

5. Sentry is also the guy repetedly stated to have the power of 1 million supernovas (4-B)

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

2. Ok

3. Which is why I have doubts about making him varies too tbh.

4. I'm referring to universe-shaking feats, Hellbeast1 says there are 7 of them.

5. Yeah I calculated that too in the same blog, but that wasn't stated as his limit.

 

[Overlord775]

4. 7 to how many 4-B feats ?

5. About the second calc you misscalced, Sentry was sent in the micro-universe, where atoms are the size of planets, so the feat of his destroying Earth would be 3-C

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

7. That's a good question ovo, how many 4-B feats actually are there? Probably need to count lol.

5. Where was it stated that atoms are the size of planets?

 

[Overlord775]

Actually, just by looking at the raw numbers the feat is quite far in to 3-B

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I suppose it should be removed from his profile, but I want a source on the atom-planet thing.

 

[The_Impress]

Well for starters Hulk has numerous statements of "limitless strength" and all his barriers are psychological, I would argue that Green Skar and Worldbreaker personas aren't mentally able to tap into the Hulk's full potential, no one is, so the concept of "Worldbreaker and Green Skar are his peak feats" is straight up wrong.

Honestly I really do believe if we're going to apply this "Varies" crap there's no need to discount the high end feats for our own biases.

TL;DR Either Hulk gets a Variable with 3-B or he doesn't get a Variable, don't cherrypick feats for crucial statistics.

In the absolute best, his tier would be "Varies, Usually 4-B" if folks do want to insist on a variable, otherwise what was that Whis suggestion of a 9-B to Low 1-C Thor? Yeah, that's approximately the same as this.

Also for reference, this makes Hulk near unusable for VS Battles as folks would throw whatever value at him and it would be fair game

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I strongly agree with Zark2099.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I also strongly agree

 

[Antvasima]

I am personally fine with "Varies. Usually 4-B", but we should preferably get input from more of the knowledgeable members that I listed.

 

[Overlord775]

4. That's a good question ovo, how many 4-B feats actually are there? Probably need to count lol.
5. Where was it stated that atoms are the size of planets?

Sowwy i missed this

4. yeah, we probably should

5. It's shown by homeworld, though it's said that the entire dimension is sub-atomic, aka the entirity of the Microverse (which has starry skies and arguably even galaxies) is smaller than an atom, so actually actually the feat would definitelly result in 3-A values

@Zark

Said limiters are arbitrary, as the feats made by Hulk don't match the anger, also Worldbreaker Hulk is him not being filled to the brim with gamma energy, so much so that he starts leaking it iirc

Though, "Varies. Usually 4-B" is fine by me

 

[The_Impress]

"Said limitiers are arbitrary" straight up false there, entire concept of the Hulk is that Banner's psyche is the only true limiter for the Hulk's strength, as is stated and shown over and over and over and over and over again.

"The feats made by Hulk don't match his anger" anger isn't the only factor as shown time and time again, it is a variety of factors based entirely on his A) Emotional state as a whole, B) His personality in control at the time (Usually Savage Hulk has a far varying range of strength) and C) Miscellaneous Environmental factors.

Of course, casual 3-As should be discounted, but otherwise Banner isn't usually just tied by anger for his stats, that's just the most common one

Also, I still do believe that throwing a "Varies" is counterproductive for future scaling and Vs. Matches, this basically makes any scaling off of the Hulk as a weak one, making his Rogue's Gallery suffer immensely, and again, literally anyone can throw any value at Hulk and it would be considered "valid" like I know it's accurate but we're really not considering the repercussions of this decision

 

[00potato]

So you admit that it's accurate? The purpose of this wiki should be accuracy yes? Why are you being lazy by focusing on what you wan want rather then what is true?

 

[The_Impress]

Because otherwise we're ******* our ratings down the oblivion and making every damn scaling for the character as wrong alongside making him unusable for Vs Battles uses add to that this leads to half the Gamma Mutates getting a varies.

There are factors to consider other than "aCcUrATe", which in fact it isn't likely that accurate anyhow if we're cherrypicking feats as stated above.

Also quit the "lazy" talk, I revised hundreds of pages and made 50 new ones in less than an year, even right now I have 3 reworks and a revision ready to be posted once my Justice League additions get resolved so hold that right to call me lazy when you get to half as that, k?

 

[Overlord775]

ah, i thought you were proposing the thing

Well, just plain 4-B was what i preferred anyway

 

[Antvasima]

Well, scaling every repeated opponent for the Hulk to 4-B has likely created some problems, given how extremely inconsistent his power level is from story to story.

 

[The_Impress]

But then that implies said characters have no solid scaling otherwise, especially those characters who primarily scale to the Hulk.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

It's probably best to scale them based on how they usually match up to characters other than Hulk

 

[The_Impress]

Harder than it sounds mate... you don't understand "usually" is across decades of contradictions and fuckery.

 

[DanielIH15]

I've said my opinion about this, but I want to say that I like the Zark idea: "Varies, usually 4-B". Besides of that, what defeated Hulk in World War Hulk wasn't Tony's tech, but Samson and Leader's tech, specifically the Cathexis ray Generator, something that absorbs and transfers psionic and gamma energy, as you can see here. And said ray, even in his first appearance, forces Hulk to transform back into Banner, possibly due to mental effects of the ray, as the machine is only capable of absorbing just a part of Hulk gamma energy.

 

[00potato]

Harder than it sounds mate... you don't understand "usually" is across decades of contradictions and fuckery.

Harder, yes, but probably doable with a bit of searching.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Harder than it sounds mate... you don't understand "usually" is across decades of contradictions and fuckery.

Understandable, though tbf it looks like a few of the Hulk villains have like Abomination and Xenmu have justification for 4-B beyond fighting Hulk

 

[The_Impress]

Harder, yes, but probably doable with a bit of searching.

Feel free to do that searching for every character that scales.

 

[Overlord775]

Besides of that, what defeated Hulk in World War Hulk wasn't Tony's tech, but Samson and Leader's tech, specifically the Cathexis ray Generator, something that absorbs and transfers psionic and gamma energy, as you can see here. And said ray, even in his first appearance, forces Hulk to transform back into Banner, possibly due to mental effects of the ray, as the machine is only capable of absorbing just a part of Hulk gamma energy.

Ah right, sorry i legitly had forgot about that stuff

 

[DanielIH15]

No problem.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we apply Zark's suggestion?

 

[Eficiente]

Can someone point me out which one is it? Preferably before we get another profile like 4-B Gamora.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I'm fairly certain Zark thinks we should leave Hulk has 4-B.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

@Eficiente We are discussing Gamora here btw.

 

[Antvasima]

In the absolute best, his tier would be "Varies, Usually 4-B"

@Eficiente

This.

 

[Eficiente]

I find the wording misdealing. How about "Varies depending on his anger, up to 4-B"?

"Usually 4-B" makes it seem as if he could get any batter than it, and I also doubt him to be mostly on Thor's level.

 

[Antvasima]

I am mostly fine with that, but it would likely lead us to have to update other characters scaled from him as well. We need more input from other knowledgeable members regarding how to do that.

 

[The_Impress]

He can get any better than it, he has the feats which you conveniently dismiss as outliers rather than properly acknowledge them without more than a face value understanding of his dynamics ("oh he wasnt so angery in those feats")

This is still a horrendous idea btw, literally making a core character with an entire section of the verse dependent on him unscaleable to prove a frankly self-evident logic of Thing being considerably weaker than Hulk. Like, understanding the repercussions of this is massively crucial...

 

[Eficiente]

As if, Hulk's not consistent, that's the whole point of everything. He has troubles fighting and has lost to guys below Thor more times than what any of you can count. Stuff like that doesn't happen to Thor, if someone beats him then said someone is on Thor's level. Clear as that. If someone beats Hulk then who cares, that other someone being on Thor's level is wank. Clear as that. Notable users who take this seriously are tired AF of average users aiming to scale characters to 4-B via messing with Hulk and Hulk-like characters, those instances are as much of 4-B feats as Hulk deserves to not have a Variable tier.

 

[The_Impress]

I can show you more than enough scans of a 4-B base Spider-Man and Captain America, means nothing. Scans. Aren't. Everything. It has to show basic logical comprehension to scale, we know base Magneto is not above 9-A because he's literally a normal person, even if he takes a bajillion hits from Colossus and survives. If fucky scans and logicless calcs were everything we'd still have Low 7-C Street tiers and 4-B Base Gamora happening.

Then just make a note to not scale any character thoughtlessly to the Hulk on the profile itself. Don't ruin actual, fundamental statistics for characters willy-nilly to show filthy bluenames uninitiated folks and make one of the most notable characters in the verse literally unusable for Versus Battles.

Legitimately, we all know clear as day the Thing =/= The Hulk and neither is base feckin Doom. Throwing a "Varies" on the second most major protagonist within Marvel Comics is insane