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Chainsaw Man: The Mega CRT

GunshyFever said:
I also have a question about Denji's new key, why is it warranted again?
Click to expand...
ElajRuengies said:
Alright so I finally bit the bullet (pun intended) and reread Ch. 77, 78, and 79, and after tearing my heart out and eating it, I saw that Denji did manage to pierce Aki's Public Safety Uniform. This causes a slight problem with the scaling, in that-
  • Katana Man's piercing damage can break Post-Training Denji's chainsaws
  • Denji's chainsaws can pierce PS Uniforms
  • Katana Man's piercing damage can't break PS Uniforms
There are two(2) solutions to this dilemma.
  1. Denji's chainsaws are just way, way sharper than Katana Man's swords
  2. International Assassins - Gun Devil Arc Hybrid Denji is stronger than Katana Man - Reze Arc Hybrid Denji.
The first one is self explanatory, and Post-Training Denji's piercing damage would just get bumped up. The second needs more evidence and rescaling.
  • Even though they no longer needed daily training, Denji (and Power) still got weekly training from Kishibe, meaning they still should've been improving over time.
  • In Ch. 53, Chainsaw Man's existence was now public knowledge thanks to his fight with Reze, meaning he likely got some amount of Fear Boost from it. Note the headline- "Terror of the Chainsaw Devil!"
  • Hybrid Denji managed to take a hit from a non-weakened Nighttime Santa and didn't die. He also somehow got the sneak on her when she tried to turn Quanxi into a doll.
  • We can't say for sure that 20% Gun is stronger than Street/Crime Violence, but it's pretty likely, so the Gun Fiend should be at least comparable to Unmasked Violence, and while it (he?) was definitely stronger than Denji, Denji still managed to kinda hold his own.
What this would mean is something like-

This would also mean stuff like the foot-saw wall-run would get moved to another Powers and Abilities tab.
Click to expand...
TL;DR: It makes his performance against Nighttime Santa and the Gun Fiend make more sense, and there's evidence for it.
 
ElajRuengies said:
Praying for Dalesean, he's been at work for three days straight. 😭🙏
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Nah I just needed time because the weird snoots or it whatever it is measurements but otherwise I've been out if state the last 2 days to attend a family funeral and won't return home until sometime tomorrow
 
Alright, this Calc blog got evaluated (thank you @Dalesean027), so now 100% Gun's Body Shearing KE has been added to the scaling. It's worth noting that given how it was shredding itself running into air at this speed, it's not a combat viable option as it would probably just die if it ran into something solid with that much energy.

Whether or not Snake's Dive Bomb Calc ends up being relevant depends on whether I'm absolutely coping about how Yuko works or if I'm cooking.
 
How many years do y'all think Angel kept on his person? Because considering how many people Makima chained herself to while making the Millenium Spear, I doubt he's got 1,000 stockpiled normally.

Saying this because I'm not sure whether Angel should have access to the Century Sword or not. We do see him drain a woman who seemed to be a young adult because she was dying, so that's like 50 right there.
 
ElajRuengies said:
How many years do y'all think Angel kept on his person? Because considering how many people Makima chained herself to while making the Millenium Spear, I doubt he's got 1,000 stockpiled normally.

Saying this because I'm not sure whether Angel should have access to the Century Sword or not. We do see him drain a woman who seemed to be a young adult because she was dying, so that's like 50 right there.
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Most likely in the hundreds, he's constantly making weapons for public saftey and he killed multiple of his caretakers prior, meaning he should be having a decent amount of years on him.
 
GunshyFever said:
Any updates on the Snake Devil 8-A scaling?
Click to expand...
Alright, there are two ways to go about this, and regardless of which one's used, understand (not talking to just you, but anyone who reads this) that 2nd Form Yuko makes Post-Weakening Denji too strong.

What I mean by that is forgetting all the numbers and just looking at feats and who fought who, accepting a basic Post-Weakening Denji > Yuko > PS Uniforms chain gets us this situation.
  • Post-Training Denji: Can't break uniforms at all (Comparable to Katana Man, who explicitly couldn't break uniforms despite his piercing damage. Both can destroy each other's blades)
  • Post-Weakening Denji: Can at least break uniforms w/ chainsaws (Gored 2nd Form Yuko, who bisected an agent and his uniform)
  • Post-Reze Fight Denji: Can break uniforms purely physically (Comparable to the Gun Fiend, who should be at least as strong as Unmasked Violence physically)
This just is not enough of a nerf, especially since most of the argument for Post-Reze Fight Denji being stronger than before was a Fear-Boost thanks to Reze leaking news of his existence. So he should be robbed of that buff, and then weakened even more due to everyone's praise of him. However, there is a way of rationalizing this that isn't entirely just powerscaler brainrot.

In Ch. 105, Yuko states:
"A contract with the Justice Devil turns your sense of justice into power!"
Click to expand...
-and looking back at both her showings, and other "Justice" contractors, that statement might actually be literal. But this isn't just cope, I have actual reasons to believe this!

First of all, there's the- as the kids would call it- total yap session "Justice" contractors do before showing off which suggests this. From Ch. 144-
"Damn Public Safety dogs! The devil exterminators sell their souls to devils. I'm not like them! I'll become a devil myself! Fight evil with evil... and devils with devils!! I am Justice Incarnate!
Click to expand...
And Ch. 196-
Somebody's calling for help! With a heart that burns to right wrongs!I've come from the depths of Hell! Engine revved and ready! Defeating devils with devil powers! Delivering justice with the power of justice!
Click to expand...
Second of all, there's an enormous difference between the Yuko that thinks that she solved bullying by getting rid of the entire school, and the Yuko that admitted to Asa that she was totally full of shit, and just wanted to be like Chainsaw Man so people would like her. She's blatantly even smaller and weaker than her initial transformation, and for seemingly no reason since there's nothing to suggest that being revived nerfs you.

(Side note but I was reminded that Fami can resurrect devils from their severed heads, so if Nayuta's dead for real I'm calling turbo-BS on Fujimoto.)

Basically what I'm trying to say is that Denji was able to stomp Yuko so hard because Yuko couldn't use her Justice-Cope to support why she was fighting Chainsaw Man.
Omigosh! Chainsaw Man showed up! What am I doing to do now?!
Click to expand...
In other words, in either version of the scaling, Post-Weakening Denji should only scale to be higher than his initial self- his performance against Yuko was due to other things at play.
 
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ElajRuengies said:
Alright, there are two ways to go about this, and regardless of which one's used, understand (not talking to just you, but anyone who reads this) that 2nd Form Yuko makes Post-Weakening Denji too strong.
Click to expand...
Great findings. I'm a little confused on how this affect's 8-A scaling particularly though. But I get the overall premise that Awakened Yuko should be considered more powerful than Post-Weakening Chainsaw Man.
 
GunshyFever said:
Great findings. I'm a little confused on how this affect's 8-A scaling particularly though. But I get the overall premise that Awakened Yuko should be considered more powerful than Post-Weakening Chainsaw Man.
Click to expand...
It's important because City Block level+ Public Safety Uniforms would mean Post-Weakening Denji was City Block level+ if we just scaled him above Yuko, which just doesn't make sense. With that out of the way, here's the two ways we can do this - either leave it how it is and only have Giga-Snake listed under Makima's profile as [higher with], or go full Chainscale Man.
Mid Tiers - Bat Devil's Sonic Attack: 9.14 tons of TNT
High Mid - Hybrid Sandwich Dropkick: 81.53 tons of TNT
High Tiers - Upscaling: 100 tons of TNT
High Top Tiers - Snake's Snoot Droop: 443.66 tons of TNT
Top Tiers - Upscaling: 550 tons of TNT
  • Makima (Fearscaling, punched off Chainsaw Man's limbs, breaking his saws on one occasion)
  • Nighttime Santa (Given "the power to kill Makima," brushed off Quanxi's barrage)
  • Hybrid Quanxi w/ bows (At least, managed to stop Pochita's saws)
  • Pochita Clone's w/ chainsaws Damage (At least, tore through Makima)
  • Blood Devil Power's Blood Manipulation (At least, harmed Makima, pierced a ton of Public Safety uniforms)
  • Denji w/ Power Saw (At least, continuously harmed Makima)
  • Post-Chainsaw Man Church Yoru w/ Room 606 Sword (Upscales from Scalpel Sword given the value of the Room 606 Sword)
  • Angel w/ 100 Years Sword (At least as strong as Makima's physicals given that she bothered to make it at all, should have enough years for this)
The Millenium Spear is 10x this like before.
Pros:
  • Big numbers go weeeee-!
  • Multi-City Block level is a cool looking tier.
  • The Gun Fiend being 8-A makes sense given how much hard to pixel scale destruction he causes, and Post-Fear Boost Denji should be far stronger than he was when they fought.
  • Spear's spears only 4.66 - 23.3x stronger than Millenium Spear, as opposed to 25.63x - 128.18x stronger.
Cons:
  • Big numbers go whaaaaa-???
  • Approaching egregious differences between in-story DC and AP rating. [8-B+ car crash?] (I know I said it's piercing not physicals but still)
  • Miri f*cking Sugo.
AKA: "Agenda-Saw Man;" there's no way to slice this- while scaling them to Snake's AP isn't wank (thank Aki-47 for that one- without him leveling a neighborhood as evidence it absolutely would be wank) it's solidly into high-ball territory.

There's also the problem that this is a big change to the OP, and I doubt I can just have 99% of people agree to a premise of a CRT, and then change the premise of the OP right before the last Mod Vote comes in.
 
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ElajRuengies said:
Pros:
  • Multi-City Block level is a cool looking tier.
Cons:
  • The chance of Multi-City Block level not being accepted.
AKA: "Agenda-Saw Man;" there's no way to slice this- while scaling them to Snake's AP isn't wank (thank Aki-47 "Aka: the savior of Multi-City Block level scaling" for that one- without him leveling a neighborhood as evidence it absolutely would be wank) it's solidly into high-ball territory.
Click to expand...
There's also the problem that this is a big change to the OP, and I doubt I can just have 99% of people agree to a premise of a CRT, and then change the premise of the OP right before the last Mod Vote comes in.
Click to expand...
Best thing to do is make the changes, alert them, and write (unaware of Snake's Snoot Droop and it's Upscaling) beside their names.
 
GunshyFever said:
Best thing to do is make the changes, alert them, and write (unaware of Snake's Snoot Droop and it's Upscaling) beside their names.
Click to expand...
I think those votes just wouldn't count then.

I'll update the OP once I get to my computer to have both scaling chains and settle this via democracy. And like democracy, the people's votes won't actually matter because of Mods.
 
It's worth noting that if the original scaling is accepted, we're gonna need to pivot from upscaling to something else (like Barem's Calc) for the High-Mids, since the new V. Frag values of Reinforced Concrete will nerf Bat's Calc outside of upscaling range.

Speaking of the new values, I fixed Fox and the Dropkick's calc to be inline with the new fragging value of Reinforced Concrete, and also the heights per floor value that should've been used. The two effects canceled each other out so there's basically no change.
 
ElajRuengies said:
I mean, all I did was six calcs, six recalcs, reformatted the Verse Page's gallery with actual face-shots of the characters, and rescaled the entire cast like five times, I dunno if I can take too much credit...
Click to expand...
Fujiodour doesn't deserve youhttps://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1112893577257832572/1353426962080727050/image0.gif?ex=67e19c95&is=67e04b15&hm=fcc168329d2beba0cda826674aa2c89bbf405843a64e0fd892fe91c04d7f0b06&
 
ElajRuengies said:
...It's over an hour since YeahhBoyee saw the 8-A scaling and I've been mentally preparing for the worst.
​
Click to expand...

Loooooooool

On a serious note this sounds very logical to me.
Alright, there are two ways to go about this, and regardless of which one's used, understand (not talking to just you, but anyone who reads this) that 2nd Form Yuko makes Post-Weakening Denji too strong.

What I mean by that is forgetting all the numbers and just looking at feats and who fought who, accepting a basic Post-Weakening Denji > Yuko > PS Uniforms chain gets us this situation.
  • Post-Training Denji: Can't break uniforms at all (Comparable to Katana Man, who explicitly couldn't break uniforms despite his piercing damage. Both can destroy each other's blades)
  • Post-Weakening Denji: Can at least break uniforms w/ chainsaws (Gored 2nd Form Yuko, who bisected an agent and his uniform)
  • Post-Reze Fight Denji: Can break uniforms purely physically (Comparable to the Gun Fiend, who should be at least as strong as Unmasked Violence physically)
This just is not enough of a nerf, especially since most of the argument for Post-Reze Fight Denji being stronger than before was a Fear-Boost thanks to Reze leaking news of his existence. So he should be robbed of that buff, and then weakened even more due to everyone's praise of him. However, there is a way of rationalizing this that isn't entirely just powerscaler brainrot.
Click to expand...
If anything i'd have to add to your point, Yuko's strength was majorly dependent on her sense of justice. She was getting beaten up by high school students when she was holding back, and then instantly killed most of them the moment she classified them as "bad guys". And CSM she could not classify that way because 1) he's a hero in her mind who also saved her life, not a bad guy and 2) when Yuko tried to read his mind, she came up empty.

PS: Im online because i was scrolling through some Elbaph threads/OP spoiler discussion, i just checked in ur CRT occasionally because i get a ping every time someone types here but wasnt planning on typing anything again until i was mentioned. I've already made all my points and anyone interested in them can read em in this thread, i wouldn't keep harping about the same things. Good job doing most of the work, like calcs and research by yourself btw!
 
YeahhBoyee said:
Loooooooool

On a serious note this sounds very logical to me.

If anything i'd have to add to your point, Yuko's strength was majorly dependent on her sense of justice. She was getting beaten up by high school students when she was holding back, and then instantly killed most of them the moment she classified them as "bad guys". And CSM she could not classify that way because 1) he's a hero in her mind who also saved her life, not a bad guy and 2) when Yuko tried to read his mind, she came up empty.

PS: Im online because i was scrolling through some Elbaph threads/OP spoiler discussion, i just checked in ur CRT occasionally because i get a ping every time someone types here but wasnt planning on typing anything again until i was mentioned. I've already made all my points and anyone interested in them can read em in this thread, i wouldn't keep harping about the same things. Good job doing most of the work, like calcs and research by yourself btw!
Click to expand...
​
 
Alright, added in Asa/Yoru's weaponry, some other characters who don't have profiles, and also tweaks like nerfing the Scalpel Sword, since I doubt Quanxi was trying 100% given that Nail was also briefly parrying her swords. Changes look like this:

Bottom Tiers - Power Crushes Cucumber: 6.72 kg of TNT
  • Initial Asa/Yoru (Should be comparable to relevant fiends like initial Power)
  • Baseline Yuko (Still able to choke Asa after her sense of justice totally collapsed)
  • (Note that Asa and Yoru's durabilities are the same, given how Yoshida's sword stopped on Asa's skin before she switched to Yoru.)
Low Tiers - Fox Chomps Restaurant: 57.15 kg of TNT
  • Initial Yuko ("Justice" Devil contractors who become devils themselves outright compare themselves to Public Safety's contracts; should be semi-comparable to Fox)
  • Asa/Yoru w/ baseline weapons (At least, even weapons made from things Yoru doesn't care about could block hits from and harm initial Yuko)
  • Eternity normally (Should be stronger than initial Yuko given Asa's reaction to seeing it)
Low Mid - Denji Gets Wrecked Backscaling: 250.0 kg of TNT
  • Eternity w/ Gunflesh (Hurt Initial Hybrid Denji)
  • Asa/Yoru w/ Super Chainsaw Man Bike (At least, harmed the Justice Devil, who was stronger than Post-Weakening Hybrid Denji)
  • Asa/Yoru w/ Aquarium Spear (At least, should be stronger than the S.C.M.B. as Asa notably felt bad about destroying the aquarium)
  • (Note that it's a crime we don't have the Chainsaw Bike listed under Asa's profile)
High Mid - Hybrid Sandwich Dropkick: 83.94 tons of TNT
  • Peak Yuko (Hacked a Public Safety Uniform in two)
  • Asa/Yoru w/ Super-Strong Uniform Sword (Despite witnessing Hybrid Denji beat Yuko, Yoru asked Asa if she had anything else like the S.U.S.)
  • (Hybrid Denji still doesn't scale to Peak Yuko, but Yoru doesn't know that)
High Tiers - Upscaling: 100 tons of TNT
  • Post-Fear Boost Asa/Yoru w/ baseline weapons (At least, could decapitate Human Quanxi. Had a sword fight with her w/ Scalpel Sword, albeit she likely wasn't going all out)
High Top Tiers - Snake's Snoot Droop: 443.66 tons of TNT
  • Post-Fear Boost Asa/Yoru w/ College Fund Turrets (At least, blew open the Tokyo Devil Detention Center, "which would take a war to compromise" and whom no devils had ever escaped from)
Top Tiers - Upscaling: 550 tons of TNT
  • Angel w/ Century Sword (At least as strong as Makima's physicals given that she bothered to make it at all, Angel should have enough years for this)
  • Kishibe's Contracts (Deemed fearsome by Pingtsi, as the strongest Devil Hunter / agent in Division 4 above Angel, he must have options stronger than the Century Sword)
  • Yoshida w/ Full Octopus Devil (Should be many times stronger than a single tentacle, 3rd Rate - 4th Rate Statement)
  • Post-Fear Boost Man Church Yoru w/ Room 606 Sword (Upscales from College Fund Turrets given the value of the Room 606 Sword)
  • (Note that Angel doesn't have enough years to make the Millennium Spear normally, so Knife / Needle / Claw doesn't scale to it. Also it's likely that if Kishibe ever actually used his contracts, he would die given that he lacks the organs, but it's still worth having on the profile.)
Also, since everyone seems to agree on the current method, I just replaced the old scaling with the current and reset the votes.
 
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