Chainsaw Man: The Mega CRT

[GodEarh206]

Damn..... This is so long....

 

[ElajRuengies]

Damn..... This is so long....

Yeah, hoping this calc gets evaluated before staff vote, so at least I'll get all the AP updates done in one swoop and we won't have to go through this again.

 

[GodEarh206]

Yeah, hoping this calc gets evaluated before staff vote, so at least I'll get all the AP updates done in one swoop and we won't have to go through this again.

Good work bro

 

[GodEarh206]

Where the mod

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Alright, long write-up here, but i think the verse scales way higher and needs to be looked at. Here is my reasoning:

First the Falling Devil has a Gravity aura feat that i don't see here which is a lot more impressive than anything Yoru did. The Falling Devil (Just by appearing and in a very weakened starved puppet form) caused global destruction so high that multiple wars broke out as a result and it was stated to have negatively affected every single country.

If you think about how much destruction would be needed to affect a country as big as Russia or the US, i feel like that by itself would already have to be multiple cities /(at least) hence way higher than the Gun Goddess feat or whatever else was mentioned. The only thing you can argue is circumstancial variance, f.e what if the landslides just happened to hit the Central Bank of Moscow instead of actually flattening as much land and people as is implied, but this happening for every country would be obscure and would kinda feel like arguing from incredulity. This is only possible to say since we dont see the destruction; but the next few things i mention are all on panel.

So before i go into the next feat, i have to establish how CSM's power works for it to be valid. When Chainsaw Man (or more specifically Pochita) erases something, he PHYSICALLY REMOVES the thing from the universe. Like in Chapter 172 when he erased all ears from existence, across the entire universe, they disappeared instantly along with anyone's memories, without any consequence like everyone bleeding out of their heads, like they never existed. Its not memory-deletion or travelling into some timeline where ears don't exist we see that he can just snap, or rather eat, things out of existence both conceptually and physically.

Makima says in Chapter 84 that there used to be a star whose light makes children sick, and CSM deleted that fear (along with Nazis and other fears). Panel here.

Now even if you disregard this completely as an outlier, we have another CSM feat that completely negs even the Falling Devil aura feat. In the Aging Devil arc, CSM deletes the Snow Devil and later (Chapter 182) Denji vomits the snow devil back up. Now just like we saw with the ears it can be assumed he deleted all snow in the world, a quick calculation done by Chatgpt estimates this to have deleted 3.45 trillion metric tons of snow, that is on earth. We could high ball this higher if we assume all snow in the universe ceased existing, as suggested by the fact CSM's power reached outside the Solar System with the starlight feat.

And its not like the Gravity feat where you need to speculate as to how valid it is, the Snow feat is literally on panel.

Theres other, more speculative stuff too i could go into, like Asa's Aquarium spear either compressing an infinitely long corridor into a spear or outright destroying the dimension, but point is, i think the verse just needs to be looked at if the general consensus is that Yoru blasting a couple of buildings is the verse's god-tier feat. These are just the best on-panel feats that i can recall off the top of my head, there's probably more im forgetting about.

 

[Apotheosis69]

ChatGPT, that alone speaks more than enough...


Use DeepSeek, Unfathomably superior AI

 

[YeahhBoyee]

ChatGPT, that alone speaks more than enough...


Use DeepSeek, Unfathomably superior AI

I literally only used it as a rough baseline. Here is the image. You don't need to even calculate to understand that deleting all snow from the planet would require 100000x more force than all of the feats listed here combined. Could you address the actual arguments please?

 

[ElajRuengies]

First the Falling Devil has a Gravity aura feat that i don't see here which is a lot more impressive than anything Yoru did. The Falling Devil (Just by appearing and in a very weakened starved puppet form) caused global destruction so high that multiple wars broke out as a result and it was stated to have negatively affected every single country.

No wars ever broke out, Yoru just said that wars would break out because countries go to war when they need money, since the cave-ins and landslides would make them poorer. Because the damage was done with gravitational waves, and it wasn't shown, it's not calcable.

If you think about how much destruction would be needed to affect a country as big as Russia or the US, i feel like that by itself would already have to be multiple cities /(at least) hence way higher than the Gun Goddess feat or whatever else was mentioned. The only thing you can argue is circumstancial variance, f.e what if the landslides just happened to hit the Central Bank of Moscow instead of actually flattening as much land and people as is implied, but this happening for every country would be obscure and would kinda feel like arguing from incredulity. This is only possible to say since we dont see the destruction; but the next few things i mention are all on panel.

You said it yourself- no damage was ever shown, so there's nothing to actually base a calc on.

So before i go into the next feat, i have to establish how CSM's power works for it to be valid.

This is The Chainsaw Man Mega CRT, genius. You sound like the guy in The Martian who was trying to explain what an orbital assist was to the Goddamn Head of NASA.

When Chainsaw Man (or more specifically Pochita) erases something, he PHYSICALLY REMOVES the thing from the universe.

"Physically" removes is inaccurate. Pochita doesn't step outside the panel and start plucking out all instances of whatever he ate and store it off to the side.

Like in Chapter 172 when he erased all ears from existence, across the entire universe, they disappeared instantly along with anyone's memories, without any consequence like everyone bleeding out of their heads, like they never existed. Its not memory-deletion or travelling into some timeline where ears don't exist we see that he can just snap, or rather eat, things out of existence both conceptually and physically.

We know. We've read the Manga.

Makima says in Chapter 84 that there used to be a star whose light makes children sick, and CSM deleted that fear (along with Nazis and other fears). Panel here.

Is the Tomato Devil as strong as a tomato? Is the Fox Devil as strong as a fox? No.

The [Reference to Hastur]-Devil isn't gonna be Star level.

Now even if you disregard this completely as an outlier, we have another CSM feat that completely negs even the Falling Devil aura feat. In the Aging Devil arc, CSM deletes the Snow Devil and later (Chapter 182) Denji vomits the snow devil back up. Now just like we saw with the ears it can be assumed he deleted all snow in the world,

Deleting from existence is not moving. No force can be yielded from this, it's just Conceptual Manipulation.

a quick calculation done by Chatgpt

No.

estimates this to have deleted 3.45 trillion metric tons of snow, that is on earth. We could high ball this higher if we assume all snow in the universe ceased existing, as suggested by the fact CSM's power reached outside the Solar System with the starlight feat.

Still not an energy-based feat.

And its not like the Gravity feat where you need to speculate as to how valid it is, the Snow feat is literally on panel.

And it's still not something you can measure the energy of.

Theres other, more speculative stuff too i could go into, like Asa's Aquarium spear either compressing an infinitely long corridor into a spear or outright destroying the dimension,

The Eternity Devil was fine but OK.

but point is, i think the verse just needs to be looked at if the general consensus is that Yoru blasting a couple of buildings is the verse's god-tier feat.

It's the best physical feat, and nice underplaying an Intercontinental Sniper Round from New York to Tokyo, that traveled the long way around the planet in a couple seconds, tops. I'm sure you've successfully convinced one AI bot that it's only Building level.

These are just the best on-panel feats that i can recall off the top of my head, there's probably more im forgetting about.

More you're forgetting to misconstrue.

I literally only used it as a rough baseline. Here is the image. You don't need to even calculate to understand that deleting all snow from the planet would require 100000x more force than all of the feats listed here combined. Could you address the actual arguments please?

It requires no force at all, because it's conceptual manipulation. Until you can give me the Hooke's Constant for the strength of the tie between an object and its True Name, and do an integral over metaphysical distance to calculate work done by Pochita's mouth, it's not a feat that requires any kind of meaningful energy yield.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

No wars ever broke out, Yoru just said that wars would break out because countries go to war when they need money, since the cave-ins and landslides would make them poorer. Because the damage was done with gravitational waves, and it wasn't shown, it's not calcable.

Yoru got a massive power boost in the series in part because of the absurd amount of wars that broke out due to the Falling Incident, a planned by Fami to power Yoru up so she can defeat the Death Devil. So while not shown on-panel we have circumstancial evidence that they did happen.

and it wasn't shown, it's not calcable.

Fair enough.

This is The Chainsaw Man Mega CRT, genius. You sound like the guy in The Martian who was trying to explain what an orbital assist was to the Goddamn Head of NASA.

Not sure why you are so angry, but when i said i have to establish his power i clearly meant that we have to reach a consensus about how to interpret this magic ability, which i thought was obvious to anyone with normal reading comprehension skills.

"Physically" removes is inaccurate. Pochita doesn't step outside the panel and start plucking out all instances of whatever he ate and store it off to the side.

Physically removes ≠ [Pochita] Physically removes. I never said Pochita personally removed it, eating a Devil causes a magical force to manipulate the mortal plane. Similar to how Devils can create contracts that have magically enforced physical effects, like the contract between Pochita and Denji causing Pochita to fuse with him.

We know. We've read the Manga.

Why are you continually mad that i provide context for my points? Taking your logic to the extreme, we might as well not link any images, we read the manga right?

Is the Tomato Devil as strong as a tomato? Is the Fox Devil as strong as a fox? No.

The [Reference to Hastur]-Devil isn't gonna be Star level.

Agreed and obviously not the point. The point is that there's a real life equivalent star out there that was partially or fully deleted out of existence by CSM. And i understand that it wasn't shown just like the Gravity feat, so its probably not calcable but given we are talking about a star here i believe it's worth mentioning.

No [In reference to the chatgpt calc]

Second person to say this, just to be clear, i wasn't trying to get the f-ing chatgpt calc accepted, just showing how massive the feat is. Forget the calc, i can link studies about how much snow falls on the Antarctica, or math it out myself. Point is that deleting all snow on earth on any given day is magnitudes above what we currently credit the verse at.

You can take issue with how i argued the point, sure, but surely you would not deny that deleting all snow from earth is a noteworthy feat we should look at?

The Eternity Devil was fine but OK.

Yes because it left the dimension as to not be attacked by her like what happened with Denji. Im missing your point, she still destroyed and/or transformed an "eternal" aquarium corridor, thats impressive either way no? I also never said she killed the Eternity Devil with that attack but whatever.

It's the best physical feat, and nice underplaying an Intercontinental Sniper Round from New York to Tokyo, that traveled the long way around the planet in a couple seconds, tops. I'm sure you've successfully convinced one AI bot that it's only Building level.

I said multiple buildings, and what else would it be than that or Low city at max? The vast majority of Tokyo is still standing, the confirmed death count which im sure you know we got in a recent chapter was literally at 900, so what do you want it to be, country level?

More you're forgetting to misconstrue.

You're just undermining your credibility with these random emotional outbursts inbetween your paragraphs.

It requires no force at all, because it's conceptual manipulation.

Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, i never disagreed with that.

Until you can give me the Hooke's Constant for the strength of the tie between an object and its True Name, and do an integral over metaphysical distance to calculate work done by Pochita's mouth, it's not a feat that requires any kind of meaningful energy yield.

Are you familiar with the Law of Conservation? Energy cannot be created from nothing, if Pochita has the ability to conditionally invoke some magical force, then it doesn't matter that it doesn't follow real life physics. If you saw an UFO move around, would you say it has "no meaningful energy yield" because it doesn't follow the ******* Tsiolkovsky rocket equation?

This is probably more a question of forum rules, im sure there are precedents for this but i disagree with your interpretation.

Im not sure what your issue is with me btw, im pretty sure we've never talked before but calm down a little.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

And it's still not something you can measure the energy of.

Ok so - i wasnt planning to reply again but - i read your post again and thought maybe i saw the point that was honestly eluding me the first time around.

The way i understand your interpretation, correct me if im wrong - is you want these attacks to have a physically calculable speed and force in order for them to be valid?

Ergo, 1) Pochita makes a building sized snow-ball and knocks over the skytree, valid.

2) Pochita makes all snow on earth (or the universe) magically disappear, not valid.

We are both on the same page that the bottom feat is incomparably more impressive, but you cant calc the exact power so you're not interested in even listing it.

If im right then sure forget about everything i mentioned since there's literally 0 context or even a comprehensive power system to explain wtf is going on. I mean Makima killed a guy by looking at him with no further context ever given. I gets that stuff would be difficult to tier. But i have a follow-up question. If this is how it works then how do you calculate any magical being's real power? I mean, for example, Gojo has one of the more complicated powers in recent memory, physically speaking his strongest attack is maybe capable of vaporizing Shibuya, but he could beat characters 99999x stronger and faster than him with his near unbeatable "Infinity -> Domain Expansion -> mindmelt their brains" combo. How do you assign how strong he is, i saw he is 7-B, is that because his strongest physical hit is City level, so we just put him there even though 99% of people in 7-B couldn't even touch him. Is physical AP the only thing that can raise or lower a characters overall Tier?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Yoru got a massive power boost in the series in part because of the absurd amount of wars that broke out due to the Falling Incident, a planned by Fami to power Yoru up so she can defeat the Death Devil. So while not shown on-panel we have circumstancial evidence that they did happen.

If Yoru did get a power-boost from anything offscreen after Falling, it was insignificant. The vast majority of her current strength comes from the Chainsaw Man Zombie Apocalypse and its consequences, and we knows this because we can literally see the effects of the Fear Boost kick in moments after the Pseudo-Chainsaw Men are unleashed, as Asa takes scratch damage from Yoshida, who was previously able to take off her arm with no problem.

Not sure why you are so angry, but when i said i have to establish his power i clearly meant that we have to reach a consensus about how to interpret this magic ability, which i thought was obvious to anyone with normal reading comprehension skills.

Not angry, although admittedly my tone defaulted to the same one I use for some other user who keeps trying to wank the Verse with terrible math and discord screenshots, so I'll concede that was a mistake on my part. Sorry about that.

Physically removes ≠ [Pochita] Physically removes. I never said Pochita personally removed it, eating a Devil causes a magical force to manipulate the mortal plane. Similar to how Devils can create contracts that have magically enforced physical effects, like the contract between Pochita and Denji causing Pochita to fuse with him.

There is no physics equation that covers objects being removed from existence, because that's not a thing that happens.

Why are you continually mad that i provide context for my points? Taking your logic to the extreme, we might as well not link any images, we read the manga right?

Fair enough.

Agreed and obviously not the point. The point is that there's a real life equivalent star out there that was partially or fully deleted out of existence by CSM. And i understand that it wasn't shown just like the Gravity feat, so its probably not calcable but given we are talking about a star here i believe it's worth mentioning.

It's also worth mentioning that since the Cosmos Devil exists, Pochita could hypothetically delete the Universe if he ate it. Again though, can't really be math'd.

Second person to say this, just to be clear, i wasn't trying to get the f-ing chatgpt calc accepted, just showing how massive the feat is. Forget the calc, i can link studies about how much snow falls on the Antarctica, or math it out myself. Point is that deleting all snow on earth on any given day is magnitudes above what we currently credit the verse at.

You can take issue with how i argued the point, sure, but surely you would not deny that deleting all snow from earth is a noteworthy feat we should look at?

It's impressive conceptual manipulation, but it doesn't mean anything in terms of Tons of TNT.

Yes because it left the dimension as to not be attacked by her like what happened with Denji. Im missing your point, she still destroyed and/or transformed an "eternal" aquarium corridor, thats impressive either way no? I also never said she killed the Eternity Devil with that attack but whatever.

Okay so admittedly I was just being contrarian in dismissing the Aquarium Spear. There were genuinely people (myself included) who were wondering if that got Yoru's Weaponizaton Infinite speed, or if that was High 3-A creation, but the general consensus is that it assumes too many things.

I said multiple buildings, and what else would it be than that or Low city at max? The vast majority of Tokyo is still standing, the confirmed death count which im sure you know we got in a recent chapter was literally at 900, so what do you want it to be, country level?

I mean, the calc is literally linked in the OP. Turns out that chucking a fingertip the size of a car at Sub-Relavistic speeds takes a lot of energy. (Not to mention the fact that it would've had to plow through the skyline of anything in its way on route between New York and Tokyo, although again that doesn't really count since we don't see it happen)

You're just undermining your credibility with these random emotional outbursts inbetween your paragraphs.

Less of an outburst and more of an unwarranted snark.

Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, i never disagreed with that.


Are you familiar with the Law of Conservation? Energy cannot be created from nothing, if Pochita has the ability to conditionally invoke some magical force, then it doesn't matter that it doesn't follow real life physics. If you saw an UFO move around, would you say it has "no meaningful energy yield" because it doesn't follow the ******* Tsiolkovsky rocket equation?

Okay, so points for mentioning the Tsiolkovsky Rocket Equation becaused Holy Based, but Devil Contracts absolutely don't need to follow Conservation of Matter or Energy.

This is probably more a question of forum rules, im sure there are precedents for this but i disagree with your interpretation.

In fiction, where laws of physics are broken in various forms, the assumption that it has to have worked in this way doesn't hold and it may just be some other application of fictional science or just working, because it works, without any explanation considered.

Im not sure what your issue is with me btw, im pretty sure we've never talked before but calm down a little.

Wasn't angry but I was kind of a dick so fair.

Ok so - i wasnt planning to reply again but - i read your post again and thought maybe i saw the point that was honestly eluding me the first time around.

The way i understand your interpretation, correct me if im wrong - is you want these attacks to have a physically calculable speed and force in order for them to be valid?

Ergo, 1) Pochita makes a building sized snow-ball and knocks over the skytree, valid.

2) Pochita makes all snow on earth (or the universe) magically disappear, not valid.

It's not something I specifically require, the Wiki does in general, but yeah.

We are both on the same page that the bottom feat is incomparably more impressive, but you cant calc the exact power so you're not interested in even listing it.

It can be listed, just not as a physical stat.

If im right then sure forget about everything i mentioned since there's literally 0 context or even a comprehensive power system to explain wtf is going on. I mean Makima killed a guy by looking at him with no further context ever given. I gets that stuff would be difficult to tier. But i have a follow-up question. If this is how it works then how do you calculate any magical being's real power? I mean, for example, Gojo has one of the more complicated powers in recent memory, physically speaking his strongest attack is maybe capable of vaporizing Shibuya, but he could beat characters 99999x stronger and faster than him with his near unbeatable "Infinity -> Domain Expansion -> mindmelt their brains" combo. How do you assign how strong he is, i saw he is 7-B, is that because his strongest physical hit is City level, so we just put him there even though 99% of people in 7-B couldn't even touch him. Is physical AP the only thing that can raise or lower a characters overall Tier?

From 10-C to High 3-A, the answer is mostly yes.

There's dimensional and metaphysical nonsense if you're going higher or lower, and that can also result in funky stuff like Human level physicals, but their existence is crucial for the wellbeing of Space and Time, so they get Low 2-C stabilization as an aside or something, but when it comes to most Tiering, we're interested Big Joules™.

Complicated Hax is what the Powers and Abilities section is for. That's the list of stuff below Age and above Attack Potency on profiles.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

If Yoru did get a power-boost from anything offscreen after Falling, it was insignificant. The vast majority of her current strength comes from the Chainsaw Man Zombie Apocalypse and its consequences, and we knows this because we can literally see the effects of the Fear Boost kick in moments after the Pseudo-Chainsaw Men are unleashed, as Asa takes scratch damage from Yoshida, who was previously able to take off her arm with no problem.

I'll admit that argument was speculative on my part. Though i still believe the wars happened, the burden of proof is on me so i can only wait for the manga to show it.

Not angry, although admittedly my tone defaulted to the same one I use for some other user who keeps trying to wank the Verse with terrible math and discord screenshots, so I'll admit that was a mistake on my part. Sorry about that.

No problem and im glad i know what was going on, I almost thought i did something to you and forgot about it. And sorry for being a bit snarky in return i couldn't help it.

There is no physics equation that covers objects being removed from existence, because that's not a thing that happens.

You're right, but this did make me think, that despite the official wording, maybe they are stored in a pocket dimension instead (CSM's stomach), since Denji was able to just vomit Snow Devil and Yoshida back up again.

It's also worth mentioning that since the Cosmos Devil exists, Pochita could hypothetically delete the Universe if he ate it. Again though, can't really be math'd.

Okay so that was the underlying issue. I was wondering whether you had some incentive to downplay the verse but somebody doing that wouldn't say this.

Okay so admittedly I was just being contrarian in dismissing the Aquarium Spear. There were genuinely people who were wondering if that got Yoru's Weaponizaton Infinite Speed, or if that was High 3-A creation, but the general consensus is that it assumes too many things.

Yeah i did say it was speculative. The problem with CSM is that it doesn't have a power system, all Devils are basically just doing their own thing so you can't universally assign rules to any ability and just have to kind of guess how they work. I can understand that.

This is supposed to be a debate but im halfway through your comment and not disagreeing on anything yet lol

Okay, so points for mentioning the Ideal Rocket Equation becaused Holy Based, but Devil Contracts absolutely don't need to follow Conservation of Matter or Energy.

Thanks although admittedly i had to look up Hooke's Constant because we call it "Hookesches Gesetz" in my clown language (german). And obviously you are quite the physics expert while i barely got through physics in highschool with a B- .

It's not something I specifically require, the Wiki does in general, but yeah.

That's what i meant but yeah i get it then.

It can be listed, just not as a physical stat.

But it doesn't affect the Tier overall right? For example, if a character has a instant death method, they dont jump a Tier or anything like that, its not an aggregate of calculable physical feats and intangibles like magical abilities and iq; a character can't be Mountain level unless they can physically destroy a mountain using a form of energy in a quantifiable and Wiki-compatible method? Even if they have tools transcending their "Tiering", like a Death Note, instant-kill spell, Infinity, etc.

You answer that 5 seconds later, ignore me.

From 10-C to High 3-A, the answer is mostly yes.

Okay that clears up everything. Gotcha.

Complicated Hax is what the Powers and Abilities section is for. That's the list of stuff below Age and above Attack Potency on profiles.

Ok so the Hax section is just desynchronized from the overall Tiering which takes the character's highest quantifiable physical feat. It makes sense in hindsight but 20 minutes ago i had no idea what the **** was going on, sorry for that and thanks for clearing everything up.

Given how the Wiki operates you can also put me down in Agree, all these physical feats seem to be calced pretty conservatively if anything. In fact the Gun Goddess calc assumes a travel period of 5 seconds. I mean for one if it took that long, Pochita would have killed Yoru 30 times over, no? And we see in the recent chapter that the hole appears immediately upon Yoru saying bang, like here where she hit a guy mid-swing or here where the hole appears in one panel as well.

 

[VoidGoji]

Sigh. Conceptual erasure bypasses any physics law stuff. It LITERALLY rewrites reality so that mass never even existed in the first place. There isn't any mass to be removed/destroyed.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

bump

 

[GodEarh206]

Bump

 

[ElajRuengies]

No problem and im glad i know what was going on, I almost thought i did something to you and forgot about it. And sorry for being a bit snarky in return i couldn't help it.

Nah you're good.

Yeah i did say it was speculative. The problem with CSM is that it doesn't have a power system, all Devils are basically just doing their own thing so you can't universally assign rules to any ability and just have to kind of guess how they work. I can understand that.

Yeah- it has a Name-Based Magic System, but not a Universal Energy System (Like Ki or something).

Thanks although admittedly i had to look up Hooke's Constant because we call it "Hookesches Gesetz" in my clown language (german). And obviously you are quite the physics expert while i barely got through physics in highschool with a B- .

Actually I totally flunked physics in highschool because I made the mistake of picking AP Physics and then never did any of the labs, so I had to take a remedial normal physics course over the summer (I blame COVID).

But I've also taught a Calculus II lab for the past three semesters, so integrals of work are practically etched into my hands with chalk dust at this point. I can pump water out of conical containers like you wouldn't believe.

Ok so the Hax section is just desynchronized from the overall Tiering which takes the character's highest quantifiable physical feat. It makes sense in hindsight but 20 minutes ago i had no idea what the **** was going on, sorry for that and thanks for clearing everything up.

No problem- I assumed earlier that you already knew and was trying to pass off deleting snow as an AP feat and got overly annoyed, so sorry about that.

Given how the Wiki operates you can also put me down in Agree, all these physical feats seem to be calced pretty conservatively if anything. In fact the Gun Goddess calc assumes a travel period of 5 seconds. I mean for one if it took that long, Pochita would have killed Yoru 30 times over, no?

The most recent version uses two seconds, and no, since he was busy trying to get people to donate to his Blood Drive. I think you're thinking about Yoru summoning Gun and Tank, and that's 84.84 times Faster than Light, but that's not the bullet speed, but rather the weaponizing/summoning speed.

There is a faster version of the Gun Goddess Calc that tries to get the timeframe based on how much/little Yoru's hair moves, but that hasn't been accepted and also the results break the nice order of magnitude increase in Speed and AP since it's results are several orders of magnitude stronger and faster than anything else (besides the above mentioned Weaponization, which is speed only), and aesthetic numbers >>> big numbers.

And we see in the recent chapter that the hole appears immediately upon Yoru saying bang, like here where she hit a guy mid-swing or here where the hole appears in one panel as well.

That's (probably) the Yoru's Fingergun / Gun Gauntlet's power by itself, which scales above Makima's Fingergun Speed (Mach 4,600-ish).

bump

Bump

Y'all calm down it hasn't even been 16 hours yet.

 

[GunshyFever]

aesthetic numbers >>> big numbers.

Truth is the language of the wise.

 

[GodEarh206]

Yoru himself can react and fire a shot at Pochita, I wonder if it should be calc?

 

[YeahhBoyee]

The most recent version uses two seconds, and no, since he was busy trying to get people to donate to his Blood Drive. I think you're thinking about Yoru summoning Gun and Tank, and that's 84.84 times Faster than Light, but that's not the bullet speed, but rather the weaponizing/summoning speed.

Aight i feel like i haven't fully explained my interpretation of those attacks:

I view the Gun Goddess (which i'll call GG for convenience) one as a direct power-up, a bigger and faster version of her "base" attack (that takes effect at least as fast as base even considering it has to travel the pacific ocean), so the fact base takes effect very fast means the same applies to the GG form. When she weaponized Gun & Tank, the "bang" attacks weren't doing that much to CSM. He even parried one of them mid-air (but got blasted backwards from the momentum). Then Yoru made a blood sacrifice of 400k people losing both index fingers in order to have an attack both strong and fast enough for CSM. If the GG bullet takes almost 5 whole seconds longer to hit her target compared to her base attack i think Pochita would kill her 30 times over, thats what i meant with my earlier comment. If he stays close to her than anytime she says "Bang" he just dodges the bullet's projected path, rips Yorus head off and laughs 4 seconds later when the GG bullet hit where he was 5 seconds ago. And Yoru who knows how her powers work wouldnt make that trade-off since she had no way of knowing Pochita who'd just cut her arm off would run away from her. (ignore that last point, i checked the manga she made the blood sacrifice after CSM ran from her).

And CSM has on multiple occasions shown to have enhanced senses and especially a massive presence detection; when he noticed Makima and her goons hiding on some rooftops, when he threw his heart back exactly to Makima from the stratosphere, when he noticed the Public safety squad that was quite far away from the Sushi restaurant he transformed in. So once the GG bullet enters that sphere of detection he'd have much more time to transform, more time than he had for the base attack.

So given;

• CSM can react to the base attack from a very short distance
• the GG bullet would give him much more time to react once it enters his massive presence detection radius
• Yoru was forced to make a large blood sacrifice in order to use the GG at all, and she already had a cost-free projectile attack that takes way less than 5 seconds

I think it crosses near instantly, or at least in less time than 5 seconds. Furthermore you can see CSM turn his head here, when its still MASSIVELY far away from him (in my interpretation, which could be wrong, he is sensing it while its still crossing the ocean), but it has such a speed that he still could not dodge.

Also, i think one way to tell them apart is the radius. When Yoru blasts people in half, since they don't get vaporized we can assume its base. When she blasts buildings and massive holes appear, i know you said these are (probably) her fingerguns, but they cannot create craters of that radius (we saw how small the actual AoE was here). And when she blasted her way out of the restaurant the hole- which in my opinion is also way too big for base - seemed to appear instantly.

Last point is that when she shot the Aging Devil with the GG projectile, the primal only reacts after he stops the bullet. It seems unlikely to me that they would stare at each other for 5 seconds, then Aging waits until the attack finally arrives to sigh and start talking.
I concede that i have no proof that isnt what happened, it just subjectively makes less sense to me than the GG bullet being very fast.

Tl;dr i still disagree with the 5 second travel time FRA

aesthetic numbers >>> big numbers.

kinda based but Yoru got two huge power-boosts in a row (the arms and the GG upgrade) so imo it would make sense for the numbers to jump up. Also this is the first time we've ever seen someone clown Pochita like this, Makima had to heavily nerf him to even have a chance (and thats with Pochita refusing to finish her off).

Not angry, although admittedly my tone defaulted to the same one I use for some other user who keeps trying to wank the Verse with terrible math and discord screenshots,

Just out of curiosity, who is this user you were mixing me up with?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Aight i feel like i haven't fully explained my interpretation of those attacks:

I view the Gun Goddess (which i'll call GG for convenience) one as a direct power-up, a bigger and faster version of her "base" attack (that takes effect at least as fast as base even considering it has to travel the pacific ocean), so the fact base takes effect very fast means the same applies to the GG form. When she weaponized Gun & Tank, the "bang" attacks weren't doing that much to CSM. He even parried one of them mid-air (but got blasted backwards from the momentum). Then Yoru made a blood sacrifice of 400k people losing both index fingers in order to have an attack both strong and fast enough for CSM. If the GG bullet takes almost 5 whole seconds longer to hit her target compared to her base attack i think Pochita would kill her 30 times over, thats what i meant with my earlier comment.

And I say again- 1) It's two seconds not five, and 2) What opportunity would Pochita have had to do this? She only fired once, because one shot was all she needed to take him out of the fight, and when she fired was when he was asking people to give him blood. It's not like she was using it when a chainsaw was only inches away from her face like with the Call to Arms.

If he stays close to her than anytime she says "Bang" he just dodges the bullet's projected path, rips Yorus head off and laughs 4 seconds later when the GG bullet hit where he was 5 seconds ago. And Yoru who knows how her powers work wouldnt make that trade-off since she had no way of knowing Pochita who'd just cut her arm off would run away from her. (ignore that last point, i checked the manga she made the blood sacrifice after CSM ran from her).

Nevermind then, but I'm leaving the argument above for posterity.

And CSM has on multiple occasions shown to have enhanced senses and especially a massive presence detection; when he noticed Makima and her goons hiding on some rooftops, when he threw his heart back exactly to Makima from the stratosphere, when he noticed the Public safety squad that was quite far away from the Sushi restaurant he transformed in. So once the GG bullet enters that sphere of detection he'd have much more time to transform, more time than he had for the base attack.

So given;

• CSM can react to the base attack from a very short distance
• the GG bullet would give him much more time to react once it enters his massive presence detection radius
• Yoru was forced to make a large blood sacrifice in order to use the GG at all, and she already had a cost-free projectile attack that takes way less than 5 seconds

Pochita was barely able to deflect one, and the Gun Goddess's shots are over nine times faster than the speed Yoru's Fingergun scales to (Mach 42,500 vs. Mach 4,600)

I think it crosses near instantly, or at least in less time than 5 seconds. Furthermore you can see CSM turn his head here, when its still MASSIVELY far away from him (in my interpretation, which could be wrong, he is sensing it while its still crossing the ocean), but it has such a speed that he still could not dodge.

1) It's not clear that he turns his head, Pochita could still be looking forward. 2). Or considering that the POV from the bullet's location, it's literally right behind Pochita and he has no time at all.

Also, i think one way to tell them apart is the radius. When Yoru blasts people in half, since they don't get vaporized we can assume its base. When she blasts buildings and massive holes appear, i know you said these are (probably) her fingerguns, but they cannot create craters of that radius (we saw how small the actual AoE was here). And when she blasted her way out of the restaurant the hole- which in my opinion is also way too big for base - seemed to appear instantly.

Makima's Fingergun varied dramatically in AoE, to the point where she could use it to punch a hole in her hand. No reason to assume why Yoru's doesn't. Also, using the Gun Goddess to put a hole in only one side of the resturant wall while from the inside would be impossible, since the projectile would have to enter one end and come out the other.

Last point is that when she shot the Aging Devil with the GG projectile, the primal only reacts after he stops the bullet. It seems unlikely to me that they would stare at each other for 5 seconds, then Aging waits until the attack finally arrives to sigh and start talking.
I concede that i have no proof that isnt what happened, it just subjectively makes less sense to me than the GG bullet being very fast.

Aging tries talking to Pochita -> The Bullet Arrives -> Aging turns around and freezes time and the bullet. Aging has no reason to turn to Yoru before she shot him.

Tl;dr i still disagree with the 5 second travel time FRA

It's still two seconds.

kinda based but Yoru got two huge power-boosts in a row (the arms and the GG upgrade) so imo it would make sense for the numbers to jump up. Also this is the first time we've ever seen someone clown Pochita like this, Makima had to heavily nerf him to even have a chance (and thats with Pochita refusing to finish her off).

The numbers do jump up; Yoru's at 100 tons of TNT in Base, over 100 kilotons with Call to Arms, and over 100 megatons with the Gun Goddess.

Just out of curiosity, who is this user you were mixing me up with?

Aaaaa11112222

 

[YeahhBoyee]

And I say again- 1) It's two seconds not five

I somehow missed this, this is a much more reasonable timeframe. So i don't disagree with the calc anymore.

I'll still address some of the points here just for the heck of it;

Pochita was barely able to deflect one, and the Gun Goddess's shots are over nine times faster than the speed Yoru's Fingergun scales to (Mach 42,500 vs. Mach 4,600)

Well he was able to do it point-blank and would've detected the bullet while it was still nine times further away from him than Yoru was when he deflected the bullet. That was the thought process. Plus my assumption that he sensed it as soon as it was fired (mostly based on the fact that Makima and Pochita could perceive each other in deep space, but also the panel turning his head). Again, point is moot since its 2 seconds not 5 anyway im just answering this for fun.

1) It's not clear that he turns his head, Pochita could still be looking forward. 2). Or considering that the POV from the bullet's location, it's literally right behind Pochita and he has no time at all.

Yeah i agree that its not clear. Im not gonna beat this dead horse any longer, we have no way of knowing when he reacted and your interpretation is just as possible.

Makima's Fingergun varied dramatically in AoE, to the point where she could use it to punch a hole in her hand. No reason to assume why Yoru's doesn't.

I get the logic but i would not give Makima feats to Yoru in a verse as devoid of power system/unity as CSM. Makima could also Fingergun CSM into space, i don't give Yoru that kind of range just because Makima could do it.

However, i've long since had a theory which would actually fit your interpretation (dont ask me why im arguing against myself); Yoru couldn't do the "bang" until she got the Gun Devil and she uses the GUN GAUNTLET to do it (we've never seen her do a left-armed bang). There's a possibility that Makima and Yoru are both just borrowing the Gun Devils power, the idea is Makima is the one who defeated the Gun Devil in the past and that's how she got the ability. Would also explain why Nayuta was unable (or unwilling) to ever use the ability, even when she was swarmed by a bloodthirsty mob.

Aging has no reason to turn to Yoru before she shot him.

Highly disagree, she screams "BANG!!" in his face while maybe 20 meters away from him, his face is already turned around to Yoru when he stops the GG bullet. To me it seemed a little hard to imagine them just staring at each other for 5 seconds in that timeframe (or him not noticing Yoru for 5 2 seconds) but, like i said, 2 seconds is a much better estimate and since we have no way of knowing just how little time passes i won't contest that at all (i still think it's <0.2 seconds but the anime will prove or disprove that).

The numbers do jump up; Yoru's at 100 tons of TNT in Base, over 100 kilotons with Call to Arms, and over 100 megatons with the Gun Goddess.

I can see why you like the asthetics of this. I can't really say much here, im not about to disagree with mathed out calcs unless i math it myself which would take me a lot longer than somebody who is good at it.

Spoiler

Aaaaa11112222

Lol ok i can see why you were on edge (although i have nothing to do with this xd)

One last thing is, just a question, im confused about not seeing the Tank Devil anywhere? I know it has no feats (yet) but given they're thrown into one category of power when Yoru talks about her children, Tank should (imo) at least scale to 20% Gun Devil feats as the literal and figurative left hand of War. What do you think?

Was fun talking with you, im looking forward to how this CRT develops.

 

[GodEarh206]

Bump

 

[GodEarh206]

Bumpppp

 

[ElajRuengies]

I get the logic but i would not give Makima feats to Yoru in a verse as devoid of power system/unity as CSM. Makima could also Fingergun CSM into space, i don't give Yoru that kind of range just because Makima could do it.

However, i've long since had a theory which would actually fit your interpretation (dont ask me why im arguing against myself); Yoru couldn't do the "bang" until she got the Gun Devil and she uses the GUN GAUNTLET to do it (we've never seen her do a left-armed bang). There's a possibility that Makima and Yoru are both just borrowing the Gun Devils power, the idea is Makima is the one who defeated the Gun Devil in the past and that's how she got the ability. Would also explain why Nayuta was unable (or unwilling) to ever use the ability, even when she was swarmed by a bloodthirsty mob.

That's the general consensus here too- similar to how Makima can make an intestine halo and create weapons thanks to "conquering" Angel, she can do the fingergun thanks to "conquering" 20% Gun, as she never uses the fingergun before 20% Gun got sicked on her. (The point off against Darkness was a different hand-gesture, and she doesn't say "Bang.")

Lol ok i can see why you were on edge (although i have nothing to do with this xd)

That's not even the worst of it- but it's true you didn't, so again I apologize.

One last thing is, just a question, im confused about not seeing the Tank Devil anywhere? I know it has no feats (yet) but given they're thrown into one category of power when Yoru talks about her children, Tank should (imo) at least scale to 20% Gun Devil feats as the literal and figurative left hand of War. What do you think?

Gun is a super feared name because the Gun Devil killed 1.3 million people in five minutes a decade or so ago. Tank would most likely be similarly strong to stuff like "Knife, Claw, and Needle," notable fearsome names thanks to their objects, but not anything absurd like Gun.

Was fun talking with you, im looking forward to how this CRT develops.

Badly. As I just noticed something on reread that demolishes the current scaling!

 

[DrGreyman]

Tank would most likely be similarly strong to stuff like "Knife, Claw, and Needle," notable fearsome names thanks to their objects, but not anything absurd like Gun.

Yeah, given the fact that WW2 never happened, 'tank' refers to the shitty ones used in literally just WW1 and nothing else.
No more wars means little reason to actually develop them, unlike how you could argue guns could continue evolving even without large wars.
And there have been so major incidents with tanks, the blitzkrieg wasn't even invented.

So like war, most people fear the concept of tanks rather than weapons like Gun where people would still actually be hurt and in direct contact with guns.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Okay so I have good news for Zabazab and bad news for everyone else. City Block level+ Public Safety Uniforms are dead, long live Large Building level+ Public Safety Uniforms.

In Chainsaw Man Ch. 109 / Part 2 Ch. 12, 2nd Form Yuko bisects a P.S. Devil Hunter after crushing another, after they attack her with the Mantis Devil. She then gets torn apart by Post-Weakening Hybrid Denji. (Granted, it's his chainsaws but the issue's still here)

This is not an outlier, outliers create inconsistencies, while nixing scaling P.S. Uniforms to Pochita's dropkick- which could've survived for reasons I mentioned way back when;

Granted, a piece of paper can survive being run over by a truck due to the strength of the road underneath it, so I dunno if using that scene is valid.

-actually makes things make more sense. Without scaling those to Pochita's kick, Blood Devil Power (among a lot of others) are much weaker, which makes Mantis hurting her less weird.

The new scaling's now reflected in the OP. (Unfortunately, Miri is still 9x stronger than Reze)

 

[Zabazab]

(Unfortunately Miri is still 9x stronger than Reze)

He can't keep getting away with it...

 

[YeahhBoyee]

That's the general consensus here too- similar to how Makima can make an intestine halo and create weapons thanks to "conquering" Angel, she can do the fingergun thanks to "conquering" 20% Gun, as she never uses the fingergun before 20% Gun got sicked on her. (The point off against Darkness was a different hand-gesture, and she doesn't say "Bang.")

We both agree on that then.

That's not even the worst of it- but it's true you didn't, so again I apologize.

Nah don't worry, we all have those days. (Also holy shit what is that guy on )

Gun is a super feared name because the Gun Devil killed 1.3 million people in five minutes a decade or so ago. Tank would most likely be similarly strong to stuff like "Knife, Claw, and Needle," notable fearsome names thanks to their objects, but not anything absurd like Gun.

I have a feeling this will age super badly once we get Tank showcased. Just off basic shounen logic, the unexplored "Hand of War" that is being saved for later chapters will end up being at least as strong as the Hand of War who we already know much about. Plus the way Yoru talks about them here, doesn't give off the appearance they are in different levels of power - similar to how no Primal (other than Death) was ever stated to be on a different level, Aging, Falling and Darkness should all be roughly equal. I make some more arguments below for why Tank is powerful when addressing a different user, wheter you read that part or not is up to you of course.

I can't complain if you absolutely want to wait for feats to scale Tank even to 20% Gun, currently we just have (very strong) portrayal. That being said it is 100% a top tier literally just based off the fact its confirmed far stronger than Asa's creations by Yoru, given the overpowered weapons we've seen Asa create.

Badly. As I just noticed something on reread that demolishes the current scaling!

Oof. Good luck friend. I'll look at it later i have some writing to do now concerning a different user

Yeah, given the fact that WW2 never happened, 'tank' refers to the shitty ones used in literally just WW1 and nothing else.

Hell no I gotta disagree on several points here, especially that there are no modern Tanks;

WW2 being erased doesn't mean that sub-category fears of it are erased. For example, Nazi Devil was a separate Devil from WW2, so is the Nuclear weapons (which would not have been developed w/o WW2), the Tank Devil will use modern Tanks.

Also we have direct proof that inventions aren't erased right here.

I mean just imagine that's how that power worked, erasing WW2 would probably cause a chain-reaction of deletions that would throw us back to the f-cking stone age.

No more wars means little reason to actually develop them, unlike how you could argue guns could continue evolving even without large wars.

This is super speculative and like i said, erasing one Devil doesn't instantly erase every other relevant Devil/concept tied to it. Tanks are used for quite a lot more than World Wars, like Riot Suppression (remember that one super famous Tiananmen Square Picture, that was 44 years after WW2), parades and of course videogames.

Yoru (who doesn't even remember WW2 as she believes WW1 was the last big war) still remembers Nuclear weapons aside from all the proof above that that's not how this works.

And there have been so major incidents with tanks, the blitzkrieg wasn't even invented.

This is a world where the Soviet Union still exists, that is populated by Devils who do things like killing more than 1 million people in 5 minutes, that is before you account for CSM randomly erasing Devils like WORLD WAR 2 - there is no guarantee that there haven't been any incidents, the verse is decoupled from real-life-history. I won't say completely decoupled, it's not like this is the Dragon Quest verse, but decoupled enough for your history-based claims to require proof.

So like war, most people fear the concept of tanks rather than weapons like Gun where people would still actually be hurt and in direct contact with guns.

Well first of all the world at large has mostly banned Guns so it's highly unlikely for most people to ever go into direct contact with guns. But aside from that, i don't necessarily disagree, it's just too speculative. Do i agree Gun is very likely feared more than Tank? YES. But do i think that it means Gun >>>>> Tank confirmed? Hell No. If Devils were tied to how feared their namesake is, Yoru - even at 0.1% power and with no limbs - could eye-beam Quanxi to dust instead of getting no-diffed by her. Yoshida would be dead 5 times over due to Octopus Devil being about as useful in a fight as Bucky. And CSM and the verse would be vaporized by Aging Devil's aura.

If we had no mention of Tank anywhere and all we had was its name, ok sure we can fear-scale it (loosely) but let's talk about the Tank Devil's portrayal for a second.

• We hear Yoru compare it to Gun in fear AND power. As well as the claim Tank and Gun far stronger than any weapon Asa could make.
• We see Yoru call out for Tank first and then Gun, when she is about to die.
• We see the world has deemed Tank to be worthy of being in a seperate Devil Containment Facility, just like Gun.
• We then see them both weaponize at the same speed and fly to Yoru, turning into identical-looking pairs of Gauntlets.

You could be argumentative and say that their weaponization speed is more Yoru's feat than Tank's (in which case you can't use Gun's either) or how Yoru chose the Gun Devil for her right-hand and Tank for her left. But these arguments could at best get Gun 0.5-1 tier higher than Tank. You are out here saying Tank is like the Needle Devil. Im sorry, but saying this is just wilfully ignoring the manga telling us Tank & Gun are two very powerful Devils, not one God-Tier Devil and one High-Mid-Tier Devil.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Okay so I have good news for Zabazab and bad news for everyone else. City Block level+ Public Safety Uniforms are dead, long live Large Building level+ Public Safety Uniforms.

In Chainsaw Man Ch. 109 / Part 2 Ch. 12, 2nd Form Yuko bisects a P.S. Devil Hunter after crushing another, after they attack her with the Mantis Devil. She then gets torn apart by Post-Weakening Hybrid Denji. (Granted, it's his chainsaws but the issue's still here)

Im not super invested in that specific topic or have any strong opinion on it but i have to ask, what is the issue with this?

I mean i get City Block level+ uniforms are an issue, but i mean why does that specifically disprove that?

A Devil's AP isn't necessarily equal to their Durability, no? I mean just look at Falling being torn apart by regular guns, she is a complete Regen merchant but can lift buildings with one finger. Also, base Hybrid Denji himself has enough AP to slice through those uniforms with ease, seen here, and he blasted the Cockroach Devil into a building so hard that most of it and the Bat Devil were destroyed, even normal Hybrid Denji's got some impressive power.

I also have to ask, how did y'all get to City Block level uniforms? Ik they're meant to be tough but i doubt this guy is City-Block+, i think what makes the Public Safety agents or at least some of them so tough is that they can reach Superhuman levels of strength. Otherwise Yoshida landing a hit on a confirmed Supersonic character or Kishibe taking out 3 Devils while stated to barely have access to Devil abilties anymore makes 0 sense, its not the Uniforms that are broken, its the boys wearing em.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Im not super invested in that specific topic or have any strong opinion on it but i have to ask, what is the issue with this?

I mean i get City Block level+ uniforms are an issue, but i mean why does that specifically disprove that?

Yuko did it with a physical attack, not special powers.

A Devil's AP isn't necessarily equal to their Durability, no? I mean just look at Falling being torn apart by regular guns, she is a complete Regen merchant but can lift buildings with one finger.

Gravity Manipulation isn't physical strength.

Also, base Hybrid Denji himself has enough AP to slice through those uniforms with ease, seen here,

That's Post-Weakening Pochita, who's still much, much stronger than Denji, if him getting a double K.O. with Quanxi didn't give that away. It was a whole big deal how Makima wasn't fighting Denji.

and he blasted the Cockroach Devil into a building so hard that most of it and the Bat Devil were destroyed, even normal Hybrid Denji's got some impressive power.

Building level tops, while Katana Man couldn't get through a uniform, and he scales to Large Building level+.

I also have to ask, how did y'all get to City Block level uniforms? Ik they're meant to be tough but i doubt this guy is City-Block+

The Fire Devil is cracked. Fakesaw Men strength is basically impossible to measure since they're either slaughtering regular civilians, or getting slaughtered by regular civilians with spears, and for some reason spears in Chainsaw Man are made of Wolverine Claws and can let regular civilians draw blood from a Fear-Boosted Hybrid Denji, or let Spear Man pierce through Pochita.

P.S. Uniforms were City Block level+ thanks to the ones Miri and Quanxi were wearing being largely undamaged after Pochita dropkicked them through five buildings.

, i think what makes the Public Safety agents or at least some of them so tough is that they can reach Superhuman levels of strength. Otherwise Yoshida landing a hit on a confirmed Supersonic character or Kishibe taking out 3 Devils while stated to barely have access to Devil abilties anymore makes 0 sense, its not the Uniforms that are broken, its the boys wearing em.

Except for that part where Akane specifically noted how tough Public Safety Uniforms are when Katana Man couldn't kill Aki with his Quick Draw because Aki was wearing one, despite how he was able to cut Hybrid Denji in half with the same move, despite being significantly more tired when compared to when he attacked Aki.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

oh man i did not mean to start a second debate. I was just asking questions xd

But ok let me address some points, or at least my view point.

Yuko did it with a physical attack, not special powers.

I meant whats the issue with Yuko having City block+ AP while being a glass cannon? She talked about destroying the school, so definitely has some destructive power.

Gravity Manipulation isn't physical strength.

Ok, different example, the Weapon Hybrids have a shit-ton of superhuman physical strength feats like throwing cars, buildings, many of them have sliced the City Block+ Large Building uniforms like the Whip Devil but they are paper-frail (in comparison to their attacking power), and can be hurt by ordinary guns, even Quanxi bled from a pistol wound and had her legs broken by a small fall but has enough physical power to make Yoru, who we saw take no damage from a superhuman character swinging a Katana, reel in pain with a simple kick.

That's Post-Weakening Pochita

Well he/it was fighting in Denjis body/using his saws but fair enough. (I would have actually assumed the clone using Pochita's heart is weaker, if anything)

if him getting a double K.O. with Quanxi didn't give that away.

I think Quanxi lost because she was weakened from Makima's control. No way Makima can use her pawns at 100% power or she would have taken over the world easily.

Also Makima literally revived him right after using her own blood. She wanted to finish him by herself and not by Quanxi, i don't think that fight is good scaling material.

Lastly and i know this is not a good argument but honesty compels me to say this, but there was no way Makima was ever going to lose to Post-Weakening Denji without some BS happening. Even with her getting cocky, Denji snuck up on her because "she didn't memorize his scent" when A) she has four other senses and B) we know she controls 100s of animals to see in a 360 area around her and Kishibe thinks "Makima is watching" when hes god knows how far away from her.

Katana Man couldn't get through a uniform, and he scales to Large Building level+

Do you mean that time when Aki survived because of the Devil Hunter suits? Given all the suit did was barely prevent Aki from dying (not like, no-sell the attack) its hard to scale it to Katana Man imo. I wouldnt scale some guy or his suit getting hospitalized by an attack, to that attack, but im guessing there is a calc doing that so valid.

Fakesaw Men strength is basically impossible to measure

Yeah never intended to argue that. Still don't think that guy is City Block+ Large Building but if the math holds up...

Except for that part where Akane specifically noted how tough Public Safety Uniforms are when Katana Man couldn't kill Aki with his Quick Draw because Aki was wearing one, despite how he was able to cut Hybrid Denji in half with the same move, while significantly more tired when compared to when he attacked Aki

Already addressed the Aki situation, and Hybrid Denji is not the most durable, yes he sometimes randomly withstands explosions and stuff like that but he (and generally weapon hybrids) have been widely shown to be easily injured, even Quanxi who we can both agree is stronger than Hybrid Denji bled from a little pistol wound. Im not saying these uniforms arent tough. But City Block+ level??

I guess Large Building is valid (mostly given the Aki feat, other than that they've been VERY ass at keeping Public Safety agents alive)

.See how Quanxi and Miri's Public Safety Uniforms aren't damaged besides the part Pochita sawed through? Yeah...

Ok this is why they are City Block+ then? Aight i guess mathematically it makes sense. I will say clothes in animanga have a habit of not being destroyed when they should be or else we would have Universe-level Goku's drip or Country-level Luffy's Straw Hat but i was never trying to invalidate the Uniform calcs, just playing Devil's Advocate for a bit, pun intended, and hoping you or anyone in the thread would explain the logic. Which i guess you did but it turned into a debate, even though im completely fine with it even if i disagree xd. You already recalced them to Large Building level+ anyway so who cares lmao

PS: I may or may not be gone for a while (depends on how fast i get work done) so if i dont reply for some time im not ghosting just busy

 

[ElajRuengies]

I meant whats the issue with Yuko having City block+ AP while being a glass cannon? She talked about destroying the school, so definitely has some destructive power.

Because once the difference between physical AP and Durability is big enough, you can't throw punches without blowing off your hands.

Ok, different example, the Weapon Hybrids have a shit-ton of superhuman physical strength feats like throwing cars, buildings, many of them have sliced the City Block+ Large Building uniforms like the Whip Devil but they are paper-frail (in comparison to their attacking power), and can be hurt by ordinary guns, even Quanxi bled from a pistol wound and had her legs broken by a small fall but has enough physical power to make Yoru, who we saw take no damage from a superhuman character swinging a Katana, reel in pain with a simple kick.

Guns in Chainsaw Man don't make any sense. It's not even like spears where they're supernaturally effective, the amount of damage that bullets do is genuinely just inconsistent. See:

1. Hybrid Denji's metal parts are bullet proof, with Kobeni shielding herself with Denji's headsaw, which bullets bounced off of.
2. Katana's Man's Quick Draw can destroy Denji's headsaw.
3. Katana Man's Quick Draw did no damage to Aki's Public Safety Uniform.
4. Bullets can pierce through Public Safety Uniforms.

Well he/it was fighting in Denjis body/using his saws but fair enough. (I would have actually assumed the clone using Pochita's heart is weaker, if anything)

I think Quanxi lost because she was weakened from Makima's control. No way Makima can use her pawns at 100% power or she would have taken over the world easily.

She absolutely can, and there's nothing to indicate that people she controls are weaker.

Also Makima literally revived him right after using her own blood. She wanted to finish him by herself and not by Quanxi, i don't think that fight is good scaling material.

And yet Quanxi still killed him. How does that prove anything?

Lastly and i know this is not a good argument but honesty compels me to say this, but there was no way Makima was ever going to lose to Post-Weakening Denji without some BS happening. Even with her getting cocky, Denji snuck up on her because "she didn't memorize his scent" when A) she has four other senses and B) we know she controls 100s of animals to see in a 360 area around her and Kishibe thinks "Makima is watching" when hes god knows how far away from her.

As Aki has demonstrated against Reze, playing dead in Chainsaw Man has a 1000% Effectiveness Boost.

Do you mean that time when Aki survived because of the Devil Hunter suits? Given all the suit did was barely prevent Aki from dying (not like, no-sell the attack) its hard to scale it to Katana Man imo. I wouldnt scale some guy or his suit getting hospitalized by an attack, to that attack, but im guessing there is a calc doing that so valid.

The suit-jacket itself wasn't damaged, and it's blatantly not a case of the material under it being tough since Aki was.

Yeah never intended to argue that. Still don't think that guy is City Block+ Large Building but if the math holds up...

Absurd Piercing Damage go brrrrrrr.

Already addressed the Aki situation, and Hybrid Denji is not the most durable, yes he sometimes randomly withstands explosions and stuff like that but he (and generally weapon hybrids) have been widely shown to be easily injured, even Quanxi who we can both agree is stronger than Hybrid Denji bled from a little pistol wound. Im not saying these uniforms arent tough. But City Block+ level??

See above point above guns. Also, if it's something a character consistently survives, then it's not "randomly" surviving.

I guess Large Building is valid (mostly given the Aki feat, other than that they've been VERY ass at keeping Public Safety agents alive)

Shame Public Safety doesn't make helmets, but making PS Agents faceless would probably up their mortality rates even more.

Anywho, with the new Reinforced Concrete Values getting approved of, I'd be nice if someone could contact the person who did the Bat Devil Calc since I think it's slightly nerfed from the new V. Frag range.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Like i said im fine with large building so don't have much to add (plus i dont wanna spam up the CRT). I do agree on the fact that guns and the like seem wildly inconsistent. I only really have one disagreement left anyway.

Because once the difference between physical AP and Durability is big enough, you can't throw punches without blowing off your hands.

Shoutouts to Undead Unluck where this actually happens but there are characters with massive gaps between physical AP and Dura. First guy i thought of is Accelerator, Wall level durability and Multi-Planet ap (im assuming this counts as physical AP and not Hax since you explained to me about the tiering system only uses physical AP)

 

[ElajRuengies]

Like i said im fine with large building so don't have much to add (plus i dont wanna spam up the CRT). I do agree on the fact that guns and the like seem wildly inconsistent. I only really have one disagreement left anyway.

Reasonable, but unfortunately I need to prove my position as the correct one if I'm evenly remotely challenged.

Shoutouts to Undead Unluck where this actually happens but there are characters with massive gaps between physical AP and Dura. First guy i thought of is Accelerator, Wall level durability and Multi-Planet ap

No, you can literally see in the profile that his physical AP is also only Wall level. It's just his Vector Control gets way higher.

(im assuming this counts as physical AP and not Hax since you explained to me about the tiering system only uses physical AP)

Non-Physical and Hax aren't necessarily the same. Hax means that the amount of energy isn't relevant to its effects, while Non-Physical means you can't punch that hard.

Like, a fireball that can destroy a building isn't indicative of the caster's physical strength (assuming no Universal Energy System where magic output = physical output), but it is relevant to AP. This is different from something like a spell that just deletes a building, like removing a line of code.

 

[Dalesean027]

OP seems fine, what are the current discussions

 

[ElajRuengies]

OP seems fine, what are the current discussions

Just finished explaining the Public Safety Uniform Scaling revision, and the previous logic that was used. There's not been much real debate going on.

 

[ElajRuengies]

OP seems fine, what are the current discussions

Side note but you could look at this calc blog? The stuff only scales to like three things, but I'd rather get everything AP related out of the way in this CRT.

 

[Dalesean027]

Side note but you could look at this calc blog? The stuff only scales to like three things, but I'd rather get everything AP related out of the way in this CRT.

I'll look when off work

 

[ElajRuengies]

I'll look when off work

Thank you for your time.

 

[GunshyFever]

I also have a question about Denji's new key, why is it warranted again?