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Chainsaw Man: The Mega CRT

ElajRuengies said:
The two immediate examples I think of are-
  • Typhoon's City-Spanning Storm, despite its physicals being worse than Reze / The Bomb Hybrid
Click to expand...
Was the typhoon devil's storm considered stronger than Reze's bombs ? If it can surpass Reze's durability then check what I got to say about that next
ElajRuengies said:
  • Blood Devil Power's Blood Manipulation shredding Makima, despite her then getting mauled by zombies and slashed by the Mantis Devil (which couldn't do shit against friggin' Yuko, that weakened Hybrid Denji could kill)
Click to expand...
Makima's durability is known to be extremely dogwater yet she is capable of being strong enough to contend with Primals regardless with Power even conceding inferiority to Makima right after Makima revives, regardless of the amount of abilities Power had that outscaled her. the Mantis/Zombie Devils being able to maul Power would fit in the same category tbh

Scaling these devils' durability to their AP will be a whole can of worms imo so I would agree on just not doing that at all (glass cannon ass verse 😭). But I still stand firm on a higher feared devil's (normal/maximum) AP > a lesser feared devil's maximum AP via narrative portrayal about fear scaling
 
Saqphire said:
Was the typhoon devil's storm considered stronger than Reze's bombs ? If it can surpass Reze's durability then check what I got to say about that next
Click to expand...
It's a freaking storm- those are Town level bare minimum Environmental Destruction. Typhoon's specifically is listed as Small City level+.

Typhoon can't actually punch that hard, but Reze confirmed that Typhoon was causing it with its power. If we just scaled more feared Devils' physicals above less feared Devils' special powers, then Post-Fear Boost Denji, Post-Fear Boost Yoru, and Makima would be listed as capable of punching with the force of Hydrogen Bombs, which is stupid.
Saqphire said:
Makima's durability is known to be extremely dogwater yet she is capable of being strong enough to contend with Primals regardless with Power even conceding inferiority to Makima right after Makima revives, regardless of the amount of abilities Power had that outscaled her. the Mantis/Zombie Devils being able to maul Power would fit in the same category tbh
Click to expand...
Makima got one(1) hax-based hit off on Darkness and then her arm dissolved the second time she tried it. Makima's durable enough to take a kick to the groin from weakened Pochita, and the instances of her getting shredded are from bullets, which make no sense in Chainsaw Man anyway, and Pochita's chainsaws, which are stupid sharp.

Also the Zombies being able to harm Blood Devil Power don't count as an Anti-Feat when they were also able to stop Weakened Pochita as a group for longer than 5 Hybrids could, somehow, despite how Beginning Hybrid Denji and Fiend Power could take on crowds of them at the start of the story. The zombies are just absurdly more effective under Makima for some reason.
 
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ElajRuengies said:
It's a freaking storm- those are Town level bare minimum Environmental Destruction. Typhoon's specifically is listed as Small City level+.

Typhoon can't actually punch that hard, but Reze confirmed that Typhoon was causing it with its power. If we just scaled more feared Devils' physicals above less feared Devils' special powers, then Post-Fear Boost Denji, Post-Fear Boost Yoru, and Makima would be listed as capable of punching with the force of Hydrogen Bombs, which is stupid.
Click to expand...
I mean yeah ofc, DC wise it's far superior to anything Makima/Denji/Yoru showcased with their physicals alone but at that point you can just consider AP not being DC in this case which has been done for a multitude of verses before, Naruto being one of the biggest examples of this with Naruto himself not exerting any real DC feats at Moon Level+ but he still has AP scaling above people who do like Toneri, it's not considered stupid that Naruto can punch with forces capable of destroying literal Small Stars with his AP yet he is Small Star Level+ thanks to multipliers and upscaling from people who do
ElajRuengies said:
Makima got one(1) hax-based hit off on Darkness and then her arm dissolved the second time she tried it. Makima's durable enough to take a kick to the groin from weakened Pochita, and the instances of her getting shredded are from bullets, which make no sense in Chainsaw Man anyway, and Pochita's chainsaws, which are stupid sharp.

Also the Zombies being able to harm Blood Devil Power don't count as an Anti-Feat when they were also able to stop Weakened Pochita as a group for longer than 5 Hybrids could, somehow, despite how Beginning Hybrid Denji and Fiend Power could take on crowds of them at the start of the story. The zombies are just absurdly more effective under Makima for some reason.
Click to expand...
Yeah that is true, Makima's zombies and the actual Zombie devil are far different in potency, which could've been explained via stuff like Empowerment but that's not really proven to be the case so ¯\(ツ)/¯
 
Saqphire said:
I mean yeah ofc, DC wise it's far superior to anything Makima/Denji/Yoru showcased with their physicals alone but at that point you can just consider AP not being DC in this case which has been done for a multitude of verses before, Naruto being one of the biggest examples of this with Naruto himself not exerting any real DC feats at Moon Level+ but he still has AP scaling above people who do like Toneri, it's not considered stupid that Naruto can punch with forces capable of destroying literal Small Stars with his AP yet he is Small Star Level+ thanks to multipliers and upscaling from people who do
Click to expand...
Whataboutism. I don't care what other horrendously scaled Verses have, I'm not letting this Verse, where there is an obvious Nuclear Weapons replacement in the Gun Devil pieces, have Mid Tiers be Small City level+.

Neither demonstrably nor thematically are folk like Reze as strong as nukes. And the "AoE/AP Fallacy" isn't a logical fallacy, it's cope. Typhoon's Storm does not scale to anyone's physicals. End of story.
 
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ElajRuengies said:
Whataboutism. I don't care what other horrendously scaled Verses have, I'm not letting this Verse, where there is an obvious Nuclear Weapons replacement in the Gun Devil pieces, have Mid Tiers be Small City level+.
Click to expand...
It's not whataboutism at all, it's an example of a verse that we acknowledge that AP isn't DC because that's literally stated in our guidelines themselves, and saying it's acceptable for Naruto but not for Chainsaw Man with their similar premises would be a double standard/cherry-picking:
  1. Crucially, note that in fiction, a character's Attack Potency (the energy a character can output and how powerful their attacks are) is not always equal to how much one can destroy or the area of effect one's attacks hold. In most fictional works, characters' attacks don't have to destroy a city to output energy equivalent to doing so or harm people with City level durability. For example, characters who can tank planets exploding upon them can get hurt when a more powerful person punches them through a building. Thus, a character possessing City level Attack Potency doesn't always mean their attacks can destroy cities.
Click to expand...
And saying "It's stupid that a god tier's physicals is stronger than a narratively inferior devil's maximum because the god tier doesnt have DC" is an appeal to absurdity
ElajRuengies said:
Neither demonstrably nor thematically are folk like Reze as strong as nukes. And the "AoE/AP Fallacy" isn't a logical fallacy, it's cope. Typhoon's Storm does not scale to anyone's physicals. End of story.
Click to expand...
Thematically? The whole point of fear scaling itself isn't to say "more fear, bigger boom", it's just to demonstrate a strength difference in AP via how much people fear them, and a devil can be massively stronger than their concept, just look at the Tomato Devil bruh 😭

And people like Pochita/The Primals are known to be transcendent of every other Devil which you yourself acknowledge, with them even considering Gun Devil, one of the strongest devils in the verse and thus stronger than Typhoon's power (which we also acknowledge was from his power and not some hax thingy) to be complete fodder. So it would make zero narrative sense for a massively feared devil's physical or maximum attack potency to not scale to the lesser's maximum when it's literally established Fear Scaling works for all stats.

They don't need to have "demonstrative" evidence of their physicals destroying cities all the time nor do stronger people need to do that at all even, they just gotta be capable of fighting people who can do so with a singular attack or people who scale to ppl who do so; otherwise that's like saying:
"Future Trunks need to demonstrate that he can destroy a universe with his sword because he can fight people stronger than SSG Goku who can destroy the universe with punches"
or
"Aging Devil need to demonstrate Small City+ Level physical feats otherwise he isn't small city+ level because hasn't shown any DC feats that's superior to the Gun Devil/Goddess nor the Typhoon Devil's DC therefore it's stupid to claim that the Aging Devil is stronger even though he's literally a primal"
 
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Saqphire said:
And people like Pochita/The Primals are known to be transcendent of every other Devil which you yourself acknowledge, with them even considering Gun Devil, one of the strongest devils in the verse and thus stronger than Typhoon's power (which we also acknowledge was from his power and not some hax thingy) to be complete fodder.
Click to expand...
This debate has been had like thrice in the CSM Thread, but it any case, Chainsaw Man has no UES or NPES and therefore no-one scales to Typhoon's creation feat.
 
Zabazab said:
This debate has been had like thrice in the CSM Thread, but it any case, Chainsaw Man has no UES or NPES and therefore no-one scales to Typhoon's creation feat.
Click to expand...
Was it? I could've sworn the calc was from the typhoon's destruction and not creation but if it was creation then I agree with you. My point would still stand in general though
 
Saqphire said:
It's not whataboutism at all, it's an example of a verse that we acknowledge that AP isn't DC because that's literally stated in our guidelines themselves, and saying it's acceptable for Naruto but not for Chainsaw Man with their similar premises would be a double standard/cherry-picking:

And saying "It's stupid that a god tier's physicals is stronger than a narratively inferior devil's maximum because the god tier doesnt have DC" is an appeal to absurdity

Thematically? The whole point of fear scaling itself isn't to say "more fear, bigger boom", it's just to demonstrate a strength difference in AP via how much people fear them, and a devil can be massively stronger than their concept, just look at the Tomato Devil bruh 😭

And people like Pochita/The Primals are known to be transcendent of every other Devil which you yourself acknowledge, with them even considering Gun Devil, one of the strongest devils in the verse and thus stronger than Typhoon's power (which we also acknowledge was from his power and not some hax thingy) to be complete fodder. So it would make zero narrative sense for a massively feared devil's physical or maximum attack potency to not scale to the lesser's maximum when it's literally established Fear Scaling works for all stats.

They don't need to have "demonstrative" evidence of their physicals destroying cities all the time nor do stronger people need to do that at all even, they just gotta be capable of fighting people who can do so with a singular attack or people who scale to ppl who do so; otherwise that's like saying:
"Future Trunks need to demonstrate that he can destroy a universe with his sword because he can fight people stronger than SSG Goku who can destroy the universe with punches"
or
"Aging Devil need to demonstrate Small City+ Level physical feats otherwise he isn't small city+ level because hasn't shown any DC feats that's superior to the Gun Devil/Goddess nor the Typhoon Devil's DC therefore it's stupid to claim that the Aging Devil is stronger even though he's literally a primal"
Click to expand...
Your argument here relies on me referring to God Tiers, who have loads of statements that would put them above what lesser devils can do, and therefore could plausibly scale, when earlier you were suggesting characters like Reze would scale above its power. The Aging Devil has a whole damn world it made, it evidently has feats.

And as @Zabazab mentioned above, Naruto has a Universal Energy System, Chainsaw Man does not.
Saqphire said:
Was it? I could've sworn the calc was from the typhoon's destruction and not creation but if it was creation then I agree with you. My point would still stand in general though
Click to expand...
It's just the Copy n Paste Condensation End of Storm calcs, which goes [Energy emitted when water cools from vapor to liquid * Amount of water in a atorm].
 
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and honestly i was of the opinion that the bat devil should've gotten a profile a while ago but nevertheless it's been made so i'm not gonna complain
Edit: minor spelling error
 
That's two staff agreements, does that mean this can be applied now? (Or applied in general- whenever we get to it.)
 
ElajRuengies said:
Alright, added the Bat Devil to the list since someone decided he needed a profile for some reason. Scales to Fox physically; does that seem right?
Click to expand...
Looking back at it, Bat actually isn't that much weaker than Denji's physical strength. They both took about the same amount of damage crashing through the roof, and it would've been lights out for Bat if Denji was over 4x stronger than him when he punched him.

All that means is a slight change- doesn't really do anything in the end besides make Masked Violence look slightly better for impressing Reze when Fox's piercing damage/teeth did literally nothing to her.

Speaking of piercing damage, all of the Hybrids besides Quanxi, Denji, Reze, and Miri got their physicals split from their weapon damage, since for some reason I didn't already do that. Since there's nothing to pin them to, they just scale above Katana Man by default.
 
You can go to the CRT Promotion Thread. Or ask Staff on their Message Walls.
 
If absolutely necessary (if Thread is suuuper dead), you can ask a Staff (like Ant) to mass ping other staff for their evaluations.
 
GunshyFever said:
I would, but unfortunately I've been stripped of time lately, but just let me know what should be placed and I'll find time to do it.
Click to expand...
Post-Training:
'''[[Attack Potency]]:''' '''Small Building level'''<ref name="SB2" group="Note">Scales to [[User_blog:ElajRuengies/Chainsaw_Man:_Slight_ReCalcs|0.0555 Tons of TNT]]</ref> (After [https://imgur.com/a/rw60Ebx gruelling daily training] with [[Kishibe (Chainsaw Man)|Kishibe]], [https://imgur.com/a/hsTxNY9 says that he's stronger than before and can take down much more devils easier].<ref name="C32" /> Capable of blooding [[Beam]] with a [https://imgur.com/a/b203sGl punch]<ref>Chainsaw Man Chapter 39</ref>, '''Varies'''; '''Large Building level+''' when transformed<ref name="LB" group="Note">Scales to [[User_blog:TheRustyOne/Chainsaw_Man:_Bat_Devil_Power|9.144 Tons of TNT]]</ref> (Should similarly be stronger than before due to his training; being able to surprise [[Samurai Sword (Chainsaw Man)|Katana Man]] by [https://imgur.com/a/xchMxuT with his improvement]<ref name="C36">Chainsaw Man Chapter 36</ref>), '''higher''' with chainsaws (Able to easily cut through the [https://imgur.com/a/la9ZMmb Typhoon Devil]<ref name="C50" /> who could [[User blog:That moron2/Chainsaw Man: Power of Horny|walk through entire buildings unharmed]], as well as other Hybrids such as [[Samurai Sword (Chainsaw Man)|Katana]] [https://imgur.com/a/QDj6a6p Man]<ref name="C37" /> and [[Reze|Bomb]] [https://imgur.com/a/O7XBpcT Girl]<ref name="C50">Chainsaw Man Chapter 50</ref>)

'''[[Lifting Strength]]:''' '''Class 5'''<ref name="LF" group="Note" /> (Stronger than before due to [https://imgur.com/a/hsTxNY9 his training] with [[Kishibe (Chainsaw Man)|Kishibe]]<ref name="C32" />), '''Varies'''; At least '''Class 100''' when transformed<ref name="LM" group="Note">Scales above [[User_blog:ElajRuengies/Chainsaw_Man:_Slight_ReCalcs_2|95.204 Metric Tons]]</ref> (Should scale to [[Reze]], who easily withstood the [[User_blog:ElajRuengies/Chainsaw_Man:_Slight_ReCalcs_2#Violence%27s_Pothole|the Violence Fiend's stomp]]<ref name="C47" />)

'''[[Striking Strength]]:''' '''Small Building level''', '''Varies'''; '''Large Building level+''' when transformed

'''[[Durability]]:''' '''Small Building level'''<ref name="SB2" group="Note" /> (Should be more durable than before due to his training. Was able to [[User blog:EmeraldBR/Chainsaw Man: Denji tanks an explosion|withstand being in close proximity to a small explosion]] created by [[Reze]] with little injury<ref>Chainsaw Man Chapter 45</ref> and later [https://imgur.com/a/D7JIe36 his body was shown to be undamaged from being near a direct hit from rocket launcher]<ref name="C83">Chainsaw Man Chapter 83</ref>), '''Varies'''; '''Large Building level+''' when transformed<ref name="LB" group="Note" /> (Similarly, should be more durable than before. Survived [https://imgur.com/a/xchMxuT being launched through concrete walls] by [[Samurai Sword (Chainsaw Man)|Katana Man]] and<ref name="C36" />, '''higher''' with chainsaws ([[User blog:TheRustyOne/Chainsaw Man: Explosions|Blocked a massive explosion]] from [[Reze|Bomb Girl]],<ref name="C48" />)

Post-Reze Fight:
'''[[Attack Potency]]:''' '''Small Building level'''<ref name="SB2" group="Note">Scales to [[User_blog:ElajRuengies/Chainsaw_Man:_Slight_ReCalcs|0.0555 Tons of TNT]]</ref> (Still recieved [https://imgur.com/a/rw60Ebx weekly training] with [[Kishibe (Chainsaw Man)|Kishibe]], can easily take out [[Santa Claus (Chainsaw Man)|Santa Claus' Dolls]] with [https://imgur.com/a/AAQJVNv a kick]<ref>Chainsaw Man Chapter 59</ref>), '''Varies'''; '''City Block level+''' when transformed<ref name="LB" group="Note">Scales to [[User_blog:ElajRuengies/Chainsaw_Man:_Slight_ReCalcs#Pochita%27s_Dropkick|81.53 Tons of TNT]]</ref> (Should be much stronger than before thanks to [https://imgur.com/a/chainsaw-man-ch-53-vL6VO2M news of his existence being leaked], warranting other nations to send assassins after him<ref>Chainsaw Man Chapter 53</ref>, fought Daytime Santa<ref>Chainsaw Man Chapter 67</ref>, and the [[Aki Hayakawa|Gun]] [https://imgur.com/a/S8dwSCd Fiend], albiet was weaker than the latter<ref name="C79" />), '''Multi-City Block level''' with chainsaws<ref name="LB" group="Note">Upscales to 100 Tons of TNT</ref> (Easily cut off Daytime Santa's limbs<ref name="C67" />, could stab through the Gun Fiend and his Public Safety Uniform<ref name="C79" />)

'''[[Striking Strength]]:''' '''Small Building level''', '''Varies'''; '''City Block level+''' when transformed

'''[[Lifting Strength]]:''' '''Class 5'''<ref name="LF" group="Note" /> (Should be a bit stronger due to [https://imgur.com/a/hsTxNY9 weekly training] with [[Kishibe (Chainsaw Man)|Kishibe]]<ref name="C32" />), '''Varies'''; At least '''Class K''' when transformed<ref name="LM" group="Note">Upscales to 100 Metric Tons</ref> (Should be much stronger than before, pulled a weakened Nighttime Santa towards him<ref>Chainsaw Man Chapter 69</ref>)

'''[[Durability]]:''' '''Small Building level''', '''Varies'''; '''City Block level+''' when transformed (Took [[User blog:That moron2/Chainsaw Man: Power of Horny|being plummeted through multiple floors of a building]] by [[Daytime Santa Claus (Chainsaw Man)|Santa Claus]]<ref name="C67" />, survived being swatted by Nighttime Santa<ref>Chainsaw Man Chapter 69</ref>), '''Multi-City Block level''' with chainsaws ([https://imgur.com/a/0GL7oqe blocked a shot] from the [[Aki Hayakawa|Gun Fiend]] with his chainsaws, which could easily [https://imgur.com/a/gZ5wkyk tear through multiple houses]<ref name="C78" />)
 
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