Cell (DBZ) lifting strenght upgrade.

[AKM sama]

Ideally, they should. If someone can lift a mountain with their TK and then use the same force to restrict someone's movements, but the other character can break out of it, they should scale to that level imo.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Has Cell ever used his TK on anyone?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Ideally, they should. If someone can lift a mountain with their TK and then use the same force to restrict someone's movements, but the other character can break out of it, they should scale to that level imo.

Then that proves the point of my CRT.

 

[Antvasima]

Ideally, they should. If someone can lift a mountain with their TK and then use the same force to restrict someone's movements, but the other character can break out of it, they should scale to that level imo.

I agree about that.

 

[AKM sama]

Then that proves the point of my CRT.

I don't remember Cell ever using his TK on anybody?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I don't remember Cell ever using his TK on anybody?

His TK scales to his stats as it's an application of ki. And if he himself didn't scale to his own tk then why didn't he use it against anybody to win? Bcause it wouldn't work since it's already scales to his stats. Arguing that it's plot induced stupidity is not good when there's a fine explanation.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Also, characters stronger than Chiaotzu being susceptible to paralysis could also be a possibility and trope of Dragon Ball characters having less durability, lifting strength, and reactions when they're distracted; just saying.

 

[AKM sama]

Being an application of ki doesn't mean anything. There are several applications of ki that don't have any AP linked to them, like Taiyoken. And several of them have AP linked to them that far outclasses their own physicals, like Kienzan.

"He didn't use it because he knows it wouldn't work" is conjecture. We don't give ratings and abilities based on such logic. He probably thought it wouldn't work and he was probably wrong. Or he probably just didn't want to use it because he always had better alternatives.

 

[Antvasima]

AKM makes sense to me above. Should we close this thread?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Being an application of ki doesn't mean anything. There are several applications of ki that don't have any AP linked to them, like Taiyoken. And several of them have AP linked to them that far outclasses their own physicals, like Kienzan.

"He didn't use it because he knows it wouldn't work" is conjecture. We don't give ratings and abilities based on such logic. He probably thought it wouldn't work and he was probably wrong. Or he probably just didn't want to use it because he always had better alternatives.

Telekinesis is not one of those abilities. Comparable fighters can wrestle each others TK, you can see with SSG goku vs broly.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Telekinesis is not one of those abilities. Comparable fighters can wrestle each others TK, you can see with SSG goku vs broly.

Yeah, that literally happened.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Psychokinesis and Ki are completely unrelated—the former is a mental power. The God Bind is not Psychokinesis, Goku was just restraining him with his Ki. Along with that, time and time again, Psychokinesis has been shown to be capable of affecting people stronger than oneself; for example, Guldo managed to restrain and nearly kill Gohan and Krillin, Shin held a Super-Super Saiyan Gohan down; albeit, with great struggle; and Chiaotzu somehow weighed down on a post-Tournament of Destroyers Goku.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The God Bind is not Psychokinesis, Goku was just restraining him with his Ki.

Isn't that just telekinesis then? that's what cell and frieza did.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

that's what cell and frieza did.

The Imprisonment Ball is purportedly a combination of Ki Control and Psychokinesis; he encases the target in a ball of energy, so that they explode when they hit the ground, and he uses his psychokinetic powers to paralyze them, so they cannot escape.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The Imprisonment Ball is purportedly a combination of Ki Control and Psychokinesis; he encases the target in a ball of energy, so that they explode when they hit the ground, and he uses his psychokinetic powers to paralyze them, so they cannot escape.

That's not the same technique, I'm talking about when they chuck rocks or when frieza held krillin and stuff and cells application here.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Frieza and Vegeta hurling boulders at each other is anime-only, but also an application of Psychokinesis, in case that was what you were referring to.

Frieza launching rocks at Goku was also an application of his psychic powers. And, yeah, Frieza psychokinetically picked Krillin up before blowing him up.

Goku enshrouded Broly with his own Ki in an attempt to restrain him, like the Galactic Donuts. But, he was not using his psychic powers in that instance (for some reason, Goku has not practiced his psychic powers since the Android Saga).

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Frieza and Vegeta hurling boulders at each other is anime-only, but also an application of Psychokinesis, in case that was what you were referring to.

Frieza launching rocks at Goku was also an application of his psychic powers. And, yeah, Frieza psychokinetically picked Krillin up before blowing him up.

Goku enshrouded Broly with his own Ki in an attempt to restrain him, like the Galactic Donuts. But, he was not using his psychic powers in that instance (for some reason, Goku has not practiced his psychic powers since the Android Saga).

Hm, well telekinesis does not scale to physical stats then, every time it's used it scales above the users own physical stats, Guldo, moro, chiaozu.
The only argument I have is that every time someone can use it fights someone comparable they don't use it at all directly on their opponent which implies that it doesn't work on comparable opponents such as goku vs frieza, cell vs goku or gohan, majin buu vs everyone, and UI Goku vs UI moro. UI goku even used it before directly on 73 moro but 73 moro is so overwhelmingly weaker than UI Goku that it's not useful, likewise for frieza and krillin.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Goku uses TK on the Granolah Clone as well, but since he stomped him with Perfected UI, then yeah

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Nullflowerblush. Telekinesis and Ki do not automatically scale to each other.

Is there anything left to do here, or can we close this thread?

 

[Elizhaa]

Psychokinesis or psychic powers doesn't seem to be a ki manipulation ability, so I think Antvasima's and AKM points made more sense on the lifting strength.
I think the thread can be closed.

 

[AKM sama]

Also, even if it was an application of ki, we still don't give abilities or resistances on the logic of "he didn't use this ability because he might have known it won't work".

If there is nothing left to do, I will close this then.