Cell (DBZ) lifting strenght upgrade.

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Ok

Staff Who agreed: DDM, Samanpatu?

 

[Antvasima]

The feat was calculated at only Class G, I kinda doubt that is anywhere to close to Class T.

Calcs don't need to be made by an official calc member, they just need to be approved by them. And if you have a problem with it, go make a calculation for it. We don't assume random ratings like that unless we have no option.

Plus that hill thing is nowhere enough to qualify for Class T afaik.

No it wouldent, it says
“The weight of the heaviest mountains”

emphasis on the word heaviest, theyres a big difference between say a hill and Mount Everest. But in this specific case, and I’m just eyeballing it, I don’t think this qualifies for “heaviest of mountains”

This makes sense to me.

Should I close this thread then, or have there been any further conclusions here?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Calc was accepted but never added to the page. Should I add it? I don't see much problems as I don't think anyone scales to Cell's TK. Put it as:

Lifting Strength: Unknown, Class G with Telekinesis

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine to me, but "at least Glass G with telekinesis" seems better, since he did it effortlessly.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

That seems fine to me, but "at least Glass G with telekinesis" seems better, since he did it effortlessly.

I disagree with Emirp here, an stronger character with TK should also scale, and above.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I disagree with Emirp here, an stronger character with TK should also scale, and above.

I dunno really know who and I don't wanna bother with scaling. Scaling can be decided by someone else.

That seems fine to me, but "at least Glass G with telekinesis" seems better, since he did it effortlessly.

Seems fine. Could you unlock Cell's profile?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I dunno really know who and I don't wanna bother with scaling. Scaling can be decided by someone else.

Yeah I know, but one of the pruporses of my thread was to scale it to other TK users too

 

[Antvasima]

Seems fine. Could you unlock Cell's profile?

Okay. Tell me here when you are done.

Btw: I agree about that we have no good basis to scale telekinesis to other characters, and ones like Moro would most likely vastly exceed just class G anyway.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Done. Page can be relocked

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Okay. Tell me here when you are done.

Btw: I agree about that we have no good basis to scale telekinesis to other characters, and ones like Moro would most likely vastly exceed just class G anyway.

Yeah, but reading above this thread, seems good to scale it to another characters.

I think the scaling needs more discusion

 

[KingTempest]

Disagree with it scaling to physicals

Agree with it being placed on Cell

You need better justifications for others to scale off of it, not just “he should be stronger than Cell”

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Disagree with it scaling to physicals

Agree with it being placed on Cell

You need better justifications for others to scale off of it, not just “he should be stronger than Cell”

There are arguments for it scaling to physicals you can see above. Any character who scales above cell and can use telekinesis automatically scales to this.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Disagree with it scaling to physicals

Agree with it being placed on Cell

You need better justifications for others to scale off of it, not just “he should be stronger than Cell”

Yeah, as Fluffy said, people gave above good reasoning of why It should scale to others.

 

[KingTempest]

There are arguments for it scaling to physicals you can see above. Any character who scales above cell and can use telekinesis automatically scales to this.

Nevermind then my apologies, just skimmed over them. They look good.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Ok

Staff agreements: DDM, KingTempest, SamanPatou??

 

[Antvasima]

What are the arguments for scaling telekinesis to physical lifting strength, and to other characters than Cell?

 

[Antvasima]

Done. Page can be relocked

Thank you. I will do so.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Dragon Ball characters use Ki for telekinesis feats, and they can also use the same amount of Ki to raise their muscular strength.

Edit: Actually, the OP wasn't proposing to fully scale lifting strength. Only characters who are stronger than Cell have higher "Lifting strength via telekinesis". So I retract what I said 1st paragraph; too many iffy assumptions. But still agree those with higher AP and specialize and telekinesis specifically logically have a better TK lifting capability.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Dragon Ball characters use Ki for telekinesis feats, and they can also use the same amount of Ki to raise their muscular strength.

Moro uses Magic for his TK, although his LF would still be class G thanks to his Ki tho.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What are the arguments for scaling telekinesis to physical lifting strength, and to other characters than Cell?

isn't TK an application of ki? Why should it be seperate from physicals? Also iirc, equivalently strong fighters can wrestle each other's TK.

UI Goku can use it and he doesn't use magic or anything, and doesn't have powers that are unique like a kai. Same with freeza, also there was a scene with Goku holding water out of a cup with telekinesis all the way back in Z. I'm pretty sure it's a technique but it's done with regular ki, like how not everyone can use the kienzan but it's still just ki.

You can see more details and the debate and stuff above if you want.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is against our usual practices to automatically scale telekinesis to physical power, so I don't think that we should make an exception here.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Well, it is against our usual practices to scale telekinesis to physical power, so I don't think that we should make an exception here.

It's a property of Ki, mental strenght. TK is done through psych power. So these things are evaluated case by case.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally think that physical striking power in Dragon Ball is usually portrayed as far more powerful than telekinesis, but lifting strength and psionic power should logically be different from each other.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I personally think that physical striking power in Dragon Ball is usually portrayed as far more powerful than telekinesis, but lifting strength and psionic power should logically be different from each other.

Yet Mental Power is also a element of your own Ki.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I personally think that physical striking power in Dragon Ball is usually portrayed as far more powerful than telekinesis, but lifting strength and psionic power should logically be different from each other.

They all fall under ki application, which is the same power they use to increase their physical stats. For example guldo's power wouldn't scale to anyone else's since ut's explicitly a spetial power unique to him but any other TK user should scale to each other since their application is ki.

 

[Antvasima]

Has it been explicitly stated that telekinesis is a form of ki in this verse, or is it speculation on your part?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Has it been explicitly stated that telekinesis is a form of ki in this verse, or is it speculation on your part?

Daizenshu, DB wiki, guides, state that one of the elements of Ki is mental strenght.

 

[Antvasima]

That doesn't seem enough.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

That doesn't seem enough.

How? even Daizenshu states that TK is done through your mind, and one of the elements of Ki is mental strenght, this is básico power scaling, obviously a stronger being with the same technique will scale higher, I think that alone works.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Has it been explicitly stated that telekinesis is a form of ki in this verse, or is it speculation on your part?

Yes we discussed it above. Characters who don't use any special powers like goku and unlike guldo use telekinesis through ki. Even cell frieza moro and stuff.

 

[AKM sama]

Chiaotzu's TK was capable of overwhelming kid Goku at the 22nd Budokai but his strength level alone was easily inferior to Krillin.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Chiaotzu's TK was capable of overwhelming kid Goku at the 22nd Budokai but his strength level alone was easily inferior to Krillin.

And yet Nappa resisted it with raw power

 

[Antvasima]

Just because one of the foundations for ki is mental strength, this does not mean that all telekinesis is based on ki. This is self-evident, and the standard we use for all verses.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Just because one of the foundations for ki is mental strength, this does not mean that all telekinesis is based on ki. This is self-evident, and the standard we use for all verses.

I know,in DB TK can Steam from different sources, Moro's TK, for example, is Magic based, but, as he scales massively higher than Cell, his LS should be "at least" class G.
Due to his Ki being higher, in which in his mental strenght is aswell.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I know,in DB TK can Steam from different sources, Moro's TK, for example, is Magic based, but, as he scales massively higher than Cell, his LS should be "at least" class G.
Due to his Ki being higher, in which in his mental strenght is aswell.

Yeah and there are characters who's TK is ki based who their ki scales to their stats.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Yeah and there are characters who's TK is ki based who their ki scales to their stats.

Yeah pretty much.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I have already stated my view about this.

 

[AKM sama]

And yet Nappa resisted it with raw power

Telekinesis is not a hax like matter manipulation or something. It can be overcome by having enough lifting strength.

 

[Antvasima]

AKM is correct.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Telekinesis is not a hax like matter manipulation or something. It can be overcome by having enough lifting strength.

If you say TK can be resisted by LS, wouldn't anyone who can physically overpower TK would scale to that LS?