Cell (DBZ) lifting strenght upgrade.

[God900]

Cell should have lifting strenght class G:

He made the Cell games's arena through TK lifting up a mountain/hill, in both, anime and manga:



Scan from the manga here

Now, few characters should upscale from this feat, but only the ones with TK, such as Moro, Granolah, DBS Frieza, Chou Zamasu, etc...

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The feat was calculated at only Class G, I kinda doubt that is anywhere to close to Class T.

 

[God900]

The feat was calculated at only Class G, I kinda doubt that is anywhere to close to Class T.

He lifted a hill/mountain which should be class T. Also, seems like the Calc wasn't made by an official Calc member.

And, in Dragon Ball, things are visually small, but in reality big, when we see a chunk of mountain ranges, for us could be small, but they are bigger than we thought.
Cases like Super Dragon Balls, which seem to as big as Moon, or even smaller, but in reality are the size of a planet

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

He lifted a hill/mountain which should be class T. Also, seems like the Calc wasn't made by an official Calc member.

Calcs don't need to be made by an official calc member, they just need to be approved by them. And if you have a problem with it, go make a calculation for it. We don't assume random ratings like that unless we have no option.

Plus that hill thing is nowhere enough to qualify for Class T afaik.

 

[God900]

Calcs don't need to be made by an official calc member, they just need to be approved by them. And if you have a problem with it, go make a calculation for it. We don't assume random ratings like that unless we have no option.

Plus that hill thing is nowhere enough to qualify for Class T afaik.

We even see mountains behind which are as big. I could just change the proporsal of the OP to class G, but anyway, let's wait for more input.

 

[Catzlaflame]

He lifted a hill/mountain which should be class T.

No it wouldent, it says
“The weight of the heaviest mountains”

emphasis on the word heaviest, theyres a big difference between say a hill and Mount Everest. But in this specific case, and I’m just eyeballing it, I don’t think this qualifies for “heaviest of mountains”

Also, seems like the Calc wasn't made by an official Calc member.

that really doesn’t matter
And besides for calcs to get approved they need to get accepted by a calc member

And, in Dragon Ball, things are visually small, but in reality big, when we see a chunk of mountain ranges, for us could be small, but they are bigger than we thought.

That should be saved for an entirely different thread all together,

 

[God900]

Ok, I'm changing the proporsal to class G

 

[God900]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems okay

 

[StrymULTRA]

If it's calculated and accepted to Class G why should we assume Class T from nowhere?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I love it; "Class 100, Class G with Telekinesis". /srs

 

[sanicspood]

I love it; "Class 100, Class G with Telekinesis". /srs

can i see a scan oif the daizenchu saying that big rock was bedrock?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I can't access the link itself because I'm in class, but it's in the Psycho Crash entry of the Daizenshuu 7's Special Skill Dictionary, which you can find here.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

isn't TK an application of ki? Why should it be seperate from physicals? Also iirc, equivalently strong fighters can wrestle each other's TK.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

isn't TK an application of ki? Why should it be seperate from physicals? Also iirc, equivalently strong fighters can wrestle each other's TK.

Yes. Should scale to all physicals, not just TK.

 

[God900]

isn't TK an application of ki? Why should it be seperate from physicals? Also iirc, equivalently strong fighters can wrestle each

Well, then people like Moro should have It through TK, as Moro's TK is Magic based.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well, then people like Moro should have It through TK, as Moro's TK is Magic based.

isn't Moro already way past Cell is scaling in physicals? So whats the point of only giving it to TK?
Also question.....doesn't he use Magic to amp himself just like Ki? If so, the difference is only in name, mechanically they are same.

 

[God900]

isn't Moro already way past Cell is scaling in physicals? So whats the point of only giving it to TK?
Also question.....doesn't he use Magic to amp himself just like Ki? If so, the difference is only in name, mechanically they are same.

Yeah, his physicals should grant him way more lifting strenght than Cell.

-To answer your question: No, he uses Magic to absorb Life energy from planets and living beings, and then boost himself, he does this through his Magical Life force drain ability.

And, DB always treated Magic and Ki as separate entities.

A good example was Babidi's "Wizard Barrier" which enabled him to withstand 4-B attacks from Majin Boo and Majin Vegeta IIRCC. A Ki barrier would've been destroyed instantly, as Babidi's Ki/Battle power was insignificant, Babidi by raw physicals would be hella weaker than Saiyan saga Vegeta, so there is that.

 

[StrymULTRA]

And there we gonna rekt this feat as DBZ lifting strength feats are Unknown because of the sheer inconsistency.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yeah, his physicals should grant him way more lifting strenght than Cell.

-To answer your question: No, he uses Magic to absorb Life energy from planets and living beings, and then boost himself, he does this through his Magical Life force drain ability.

And, DB always treated Magic and Ki as separate entities.

A good example was Babidi's "Wizard Barrier" which enabled him to withstand 4-B attacks from Majin Boo and Majin Vegeta IIRCC. A Ki barrier would've been destroyed instantly, as Babidi's Ki/Battle power was insignificant, Babidi by raw physicals would be hella weaker than Saiyan saga Vegeta, so there is that.

Thanks for the answer.
but heres another take, babidi is more proficient with Magic than with Ki, so obviously his Magic is more stronger. And his own body isn't strong enough to channel it, i.e Babibidi is an exception to the rule. i can name a few examples of such cases in other fiction. We know in DB ki strength and Biological/physiological strength are closely related.
but my point is as different entities as magic and Ki are, wouldn't amp mechanics be similar?
for analogy, like milk and water are different, but both are edible liquids.
Since we see magic is amping various characters in Buu arc, like Vegeta, Dabura, those two grunts who drained Gohan in tournament, or Pui Pui etc.
Clearly their biology allows full usage of magical energies in their body.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

And there we gonna rekt this feat as DBZ lifting strength feats are Unknown because of the sheer inconsistency.

Or as an outlier.
It's definitely an outlier.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

yeah an outlier our fav term.
At this point i must ask are feats of LS done in combat or similar situations where characters are serious less important than gag feats done during training?
Because I believe we are getting our priorities skewed if gag feats are more important than serious feats.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Or as an outlier.
It's definitely an outlier.

Given they consistently struggle with much less, like, the whole gravity rooms which are around x200 or the infamous 40 tons (400 coz King Kai planet but you got the point).

DBZ simply ain't focusing on LS feats, if they have Class G LS they wouldn't call such little gravity increases constantly an huge deal to use it for serious training. It's not even a gag, it's literally part of the lore.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Didn't DDM already explained why Gravity rooms are different deal altogether? That it puts strain on body in a way that large weights can't.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Gravity training doesn't break the LS scale that much because the weight isn't the only factor, literally all the body gets however many times the gravity heavier, so squishy organs like the eyes heart blood and all that needs to work under that immense gravity, they should be able to lift more.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I don't see how you jump from "18 tons + stress from extra gravity", to casually 8,000,000 tons, and then back to "4000 tons + stress from extra gravity + stress from flying".

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm pretty sure we treat LS as a way to break through Gravity Increase/Telekinesis.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Also iirc, equivalently strong fighters can wrestle each other's TK.

Scans please

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Weight not being a factor in Gravity Training is a myth, it’s literally stated to be difficult because it makes characters weigh more.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I don't see how you jump from "18 tons + stress from extra gravity", to casually 8,000,000 tons, and then back to "4000 tons + stress from extra gravity + stress from flying".

Does it matter tho? What they can output during a fight should be more important then something done during training.

Scans please

I only remember instances from anime, cuz thats all i have seen. Gotta wait tho, need to sift through YT.

Weight not being a factor in Gravity Training is a myth, it’s literally stated to be difficult because it makes characters weigh more.

A strawman, nobody here has said that.

 

[God900]

Thanks for the answer.
but heres another take, babidi is more proficient with Magic than with Ki, so obviously his Magic is more stronger. And his own body isn't strong enough to channel it, i.e Babibidi is an exception to the rule. i can name a few examples of such cases in other fiction. We know in DB ki strength and Biological/physiological strength are closely related.
but my point is as different entities as magic and Ki are, wouldn't amp mechanics be similar?
for analogy, like milk and water are different, but both are edible liquids.
Since we see magic is amping various characters in Buu arc, like Vegeta, Dabura, those two grunts who drained Gohan in tournament, or Pui Pui etc.
Clearly their biology allows full usage of magical energies in their body.

No, they aren't similar in mechanism. As you may have seen, Magic focuses more on Hax, such as Mind control, Corruption, sealing, possesion, Soul manipulation, creation, etc...., Whenever you get a physical increase, such as Power bestobal or statistics amp is thanks to a Magical ability, but not from training or your own strenght.
Rather gaining power from absorbing or being granted by someone else though Hax.

(AKA Dark Magic from DBH, which Towa uses to manipulate some villians, or the power bestobal from Moro, which he used to boost his goons).

Magic was never shown to be applicable for destructive pruporses, unlike Ki, that with enough amounts you can blow up universes lol.

Also, what do you mean about Babidi not handeling It in his body? His Magic Power is heriously above his Ki levels, that's why he could handle Majin Vegeta's and Majin Buu's attacks.
Babidi is not even Comparable to Saiyan saga Vegeta in terms of pure AP.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Does it matter tho? What they can output during a fight should be more important then something done during training.

How would x200 Gravity increase be a somehow a deal to Class G? They wouldn't have any issue about moving in such, and yet they count it as a pretty big deal to the point of consistently use for training.

 

[SamanPatou]

Wasn't telekinesis always treated as something different from ki, to the point that it if often called "special power"? (I remember them saying it to Chiaotzu and then to Moro).
Also, characters always affected stronger ones (to a certain extent) with their power, see Guldo and Moro (although the latter can be argued to be magic-based).
Kaioshins also have it, but it's once again a power of its own (divine powers, mentioned by Zamasu).

For this reason I think Cell's feat might be fine, but I'm iffy on scaling it to physicals as a byproduct of ki.

 

[God900]

(although the latter can be argued to be magic-based).

It is Magic based actually. But Moro's normal lifting strenght thanks to his Ki, should be able to be done through his Magic aswell, as TK is still TK, doesn't matter through what means you achive it, he still needs to use his mind for the TK to work.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Wasn't telekinesis always treated as something different from ki, to the point that it if often called "special power"? (I remember them saying it to Chiaotzu and then to Moro).
Also, characters always affected stronger ones (to a certain extent) with their power, see Guldo and Moro (although the latter can be argued to be magic-based).
Kaioshins also have it, but it's once again a power of its own (divine powers, mentioned by Zamasu).

For this reason I think Cell's feat might be fine, but I'm iffy on scaling it to physicals as a byproduct of ki.

UI Goku can use it and he doesn't use magic or anything, and doesn't have powers that are unique like a kai. Same with freeza, also there was a scene with Goku holding water out of a cup with telekinesis all the way back in Z. I'm pretty sure it's a technique but it's done with regular ki, like how not everyone can use the kienzan but it's still just ki.

 

[God900]

I'm pretty sure it's a technique but it's done with regular ki, like how not everyone can use the kienzan but it's still just ki.

Depends, becouse Moro's one is Magic based. Actually, in DB TK can be done through both means, Magic and Ki.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Depends, becouse Moro's one is Magic based. Actually, in DB TK can be done through both means, Magic and Ki.

What is the basis for moro using TK with magic?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

A strawman, nobody here has said that.

Good, Gravity Training counts as Anti-Feats then.

This blog I’m working on provides direct proof the increase in weight is why Goku struggles when training in high gravity, by the way. When he removed his weighted clothing he was able to move easier.

 

[SamanPatou]

What I meant is that telekinesis is often portrayed and called as something different and out of the ordinary, something not everyone can do, and to use it character had to use magic (Moro, Babidy), godly powers (Zamasu, Shin) or their own unique traits (Frieza, Guldo, Chiaotzu) and them being called "special powers" kinda implies, at least to me, that they are something different from ki.

 

[SirAlex09]

What I meant is that telekinesis is often portrayed and called some something different and out of the ordinary, something not everyone can do, and to use it character had to use magic (Moro, Babidy), godly powers (Zamasu, Shin) or their own unique traits (Frieza, Guldo, Chiaotzu) and them being called "special powers" kinda implies, at least to me, that they are something different from ki.

Goku ( in Z filler, in MUI and arguably in Super) , Piccolo, Granolah, Vegeta , Ginyu can use it though. Even Yamcha uses it in the Baseball episode and explains that he uses the principals of the Spirit ball to move the Baseball. Goku later uses a variation of the Spirit ball