Castlevania Thing

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Not really, no. We use an extremely specific idiosyncratic sense of "duality" for the purposes of the ability, so, most cosmic dualities you see in fiction aren't gonna qualify, truth be told.

I agree with your sentiments but I find this quite dumb and too specific.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Ultima_Reality Why are we using this specific sense and not the one that a lot of fiction in general goes under by? This doesn’t make any sense and again this comes off as being needlessly strict for the sake of it.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Not really interested in debating foundations here. Point is that Castlevania doesn't qualify for Nonduality, first and foremost.

 

[Theglassman12]

Well you’ve completely lost me because nothing of what you explained about Life and Death and Life and not life makes any sense.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

You don't really seem to have any objections to this specific case, so much as a problem with how the ability in general is handled. That's not really a topic for this thread.

 

[Theglassman12]

I don’t particularly care for the series losing the ability, I care about how the standards even work because none of this makes any sense.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

And as I've said, this is not a place to discuss that. Go make a separate thread if you like, but this one is just plainly correct under current standards.

 

[Theglassman12]

I’ll do it when I get the chance, but for now I’m fine with this thread.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

In a way, death isn't the opposite of life because there are things which are not alive, but not dead either (see: the computer you are using to read this message). So yeah, many series list this wrongly. Agreed btw.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Dope.

Since it's a fairly straightforward thread, and three staff agreed (Four, if you include me), we can probably apply this already.

 

[Theglassman12]

@CrimsonStarFallen if that’s the case then we really need some evaluation on Nonduality as a whole if a lot of series on the site is using it incorrectly.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Given the aforementioned examples of fairly mundane things that are neither dead nor alive, also, most likely the entire "Enhanced Immortality / Nonduality" listing should be removed, instead of just the Nonduality, come to think of it. Especially seeing as the scans on the page are clearly just talking about Vampires being undead.

 

[Theglassman12]

Why would the enhanced immortality stuff be removed too? You’re only tackling nonduality here, not that, and they’re very clearly stated to be an existence beyond life and death.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I already said why. There are three scans in that album: The first two only talk about "hovering between" life and death, which isn't worth much (Just means they don't really classify either as living organisms nor as dead ones, at best). Then there's the third one:

Every time he gets close, the clearer the details become, the more the woman's beauty stands out. He wants to see that smile. But, that was an impossible order. She was able to survive for over 200 years, escaping the spell of time, because she lived in a place that transcends life and death. He wouldn't wish for it himself, eternal beauty. Unwanted, a life no different than that of a doll.

Which can be taken in the exact same way; Vampires aren't dead, and nor are they alive, and so they "transcend life and death." Really just saying they're undead beings.

 

[Theglassman12]

These undead beings cannot die normally, and the one person in the novel that’s consistently stated to be able to kill them on his own Simon, is stated he has the ability to erase them from existence, something that type 5 Immortality is stated to have as a bare minimum to try and kill them.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I mean, okay. "Cannot die normally" is just a feature of Immortality in general, so that doesn't mean much. There is also a difference between "He is stated to be able to erase them from existence" and "Nothing short of existence erasure will kill them." You need a bridge to go from A to B here, and "The only person who's said to be able to kill them is stated to have the power to erase them" isn't it.

 

[Theglassman12]

By cannot die normally, I mean that nothing that any normal human can do is enough to kill them. They even state and show that the good ole stake to the heart isn’t enough to kill them, and Simon as well as virtually any other hunter are stated to have the innate ability to kill creatures of chaos and vampires. Also how exactly is that not a bridge when Simon being stated numerous times that he can kill vampires is also backed up by the fact he’s capable of erasing their entire existence? They’re not separate things and are tied together in the novel.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Also how exactly is that not a bridge when Simon being stated numerous times that he can kill vampires is also backed up by the fact he’s capable of erasing their entire existence? They’re not separate things and are tied together in the novel.

1) Vampires can't be killed normally

2) Simon is the only person stated to be able to kill Vampires

3) Simon is stated to be able to erase Vampires from existence

Therefore, anything short of existence erasure won't kill a Vampire.

If this is the argument being made, then, yeah, it's just a non-sequitur. None of the premises actually lead to the conclusion. All this tells me is that existence erasure kills Vampires, not that anything short of EE wouldn't kill them.

 

[Theglassman12]

It wouldn’t kill them when creatures of chaos are capable of reforming their entire bodies from complete destruction and their soul being destroyed also isn’t enough for them to die but ok.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

It wouldn’t kill them when creatures of chaos are capable of reforming their entire bodies from complete destruction and their soul being destroyed also isn’t enough for them to die but ok.

Then there is really no argument to be done. Type 5 would have to be based around "Nothing short of existence erasure can kill them." But you've said that this is not true, and even Existence Erasure wouldn't kill them. So, what exactly sustains Type 5 now? I've already said why "Neither alive nor dead" is clearly just talking about an undead state of being and isn't necessarily indicative of anything else.

 

[Theglassman12]

The fact that they’re beyond conventional life and death and they’re just unkillable by their very nature unless you have the innate ability to kill them.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Yeah, I've already addressed both of those parts, so if there isn't anything else justifying it, it ought to go, I believe.

 

[Theglassman12]

Ok, by all means remove it given you have the staff approval.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Neat.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Changes have been made.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Closing, then.