Calvin and Hobbles: "Imagination" profile wiping

[Bobsican]

Okay, as we all know, "Imagination" profiles that aren't reocurrent stuff is a no, which affects most of the profiles of this verse.

The question is, which profiles this includes?

Edit: This includes Spaceman Spiff and Stupendous Ma, leaving only Hobbles himself with the page, preventing the series from entering Gray-Audit area out of no profiles.

Can the above be deleted?

This also affects the "Power of the verse" section, so it should also be edited accordingly, among nearly everything indexed on the verse page regarding the cast's profiles

 

[Agnaa]

I agree with those two pages being deleted.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[00potato]

I don't see why characters being fictional in-verse in enough to ban them. They still have clear feats and can be used as any other character in debate. This does nothing but remove profiles without benefit.

If this goes through then I guess I can wipe all of Yume Nikki at least.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, the thing is relevancy.

In heere we are talking about one-time guys that are really just things the actual cast plays with, without not bein real at all.

Now, in Yume Nikki, there's a blatant cosmology and a ton of interaction between reality and the "imagination" stuff beyond just a kid playing with his toys.

See the problem? Basically, profiles for imagination stuff that was made by the cast only for entertainment purposes is a big no.

 

[00potato]

No, I really don't. One off characters should still be able to be debated if they have feats. Same goes for whether they are "real.@ in verse.

This is just you making a problem rather then one already existing. Whether a fictional character exists in another fictional setting is a ridiculous requirement that has no benefit to the wiki at all. What do we even gain from this?

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

All the characters in Calvin and Hobbes are either Calvin's own exaggarated view on the world or actual daydreams.

Yume nikki has reality-fiction for it's cosmology, not really an argument

 

[Bobsican]

It's like how certain sort sort of profiles aren't allowed, they just give an exaggerated view on a verse's capabilities in this case.

 

[00potato]

But this isn't really exaggerated though, the feats can be clearly seen.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

But this isn't really exaggerated though, the feats can be clearly seen.

No.

Calvin is 9-B from Hobbes, who is just a product of Calvin's own imagination of his stuffed Tiger.

Even Watterson confirms as much saying how Hobbes being a real tiger is how Calvin sees him

All the hax in Calvin and Hobbes is just Calvin's own imaginative playings with his cardboard box.

 

[00potato]

So? How does that make the profiles less deserving of existence.

Imaginary Hobbes/Calvin still have feats that can be discussed and character to look at.

None of what you are saying is relevant to the wiki and is just an excuse to remove harmless profiles. We don't benefit from this and it sets a bad precedent.

 

[Bobsican]

It actually sets a bad precedent leaving them being around.

Rules are rules, make a CRT to change the rules themselves if you want to change that.

 

[00potato]

I am sorry Bob, but I cannot find the argument here, can you please find it for me because this just looks like you giving up. Can you actually look at my points Robert?

 

[Bobsican]

Well, I really am not interested enought, but I'm still trying to explain it to you.

From the Reality Equalizatio page, we can see that the "imagination" stuff has to be actually interacted with in a noteworthy way for a good chunk of the series, basically like as a sort of consistent in-universe Reality - Fiction Interaction

Now, I'm going to remind that an entire verse already got deleted out of all the "superhuman" feats being nothing more than two girls playing with their imagination in a fashion that doesn't actually change reality, the same goes here, and so the entire verse is to be nuked as apparently even Hobbes is just a toy that is only sentient in Calvin's perspective by using imagination.

Like, otherwise nearly all profiles would have to be combined into a single one for Calvin, but that also further proves that the setting is exactly the same as that series that got deleted and was essencially in the same sort of problems, so overall, this series is to be nuked,

 

[Imaginym]

I'm curious. What does this mean for show-within-a-show characters?

Both the show, & the show-within-a-show are fiction as far as we're concerned. Both have feats & characterizations, & in many cases, their own discernibles plot, just on different scales.

What? Like, ban Itchy & Scratchy (Not a perfect example of a SWaS with a storyline.) for being fiction to the setting that created them? Because that seems absurd, IMHO.

I think it's a bad precedent for approaching a lot of media that you could find here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowWithinAShow

I'm aware Spaceman Spiff is an imagined character in fiction, but I'd assume SOME people think of imagined character & SWAS profiles all too similarly....

So I'd like to know how this could affect such things, if at all?

 

[00potato]

You still haven't proven that this is worth doing. You just gave up and said "well the rules say so, I win." You haven't explain anything Robert, and I don't get how you think that you did.

Why should we remove these profiles? What problems do they cause? They have clear feats and caused no problems for their whole run of existence before you can along Robert.

 

[Bobsican]

@ Imaginym, well, it depends on the series, characters that simply come out of the show briefly are generally a no as the Reality Equalization page explains, but if the characters in question come in and out fairly often or enought to consider it as an entire setting (Like in SAO), then it's fine.

Now, in here this is more of a gray area, but as the rule has already been applied to another series in the same way that had basically the same issues... yeah, this has to be removed per the rules.

@00potato, I'm Bob, not "Robert", just had to point that out, it's too... uncomfortable to be named like that.

Anyways, .

1: They break the rules

2: They break the rules

3: They break the rules

For real, similar stuff was said about Composite Human and he got removed, it not being something that causes problems by itself isn't a reason for it to stay, you could bring up that the "imagination" stuff is basically the main setting of the series, however, the problem resides in there being no actual "characters" for it, as for some reason someone thought that it was a good idea to separate Calvin's sudden imagination outbursts in different profiles, and that's like as if you decomposited a character that's already a single incarnation of itself, which is bad.

Now, the problem could be fixed if all of them were merged into a single one, but then the problem of, you guessed it, all powers being from "normal" imagination stuff turns even more blatant, they simply don't qualify for Reality Equalizatio, so you end up with a haxless tier 10 that is to be deleted out of lack of powers and stuff like that.

Under the same logic I could legit make profiles for the Backyardigans, to say the least.

 

[00potato]

Ok, Bob.

It not causing problems is a reason for it to stay. You don't just remove things for no beneficial reason, like you suggest. You have no case for removing them I'm sorry buddy but " lol rules." that ain't enough. I need an actual reason, an argument with substance. What problem does this cause, guess what Bobby Nothing, this is all a waste of time that benefits nobody. So why are you doing this?

The characters in Calvin's mind aren't any less worthy of profile making then any other character.

How is merging them a problem? We have Kirito, (who you brought up actually) and each profile worked individually. You are just looking for an excuse rather then giving a solid reason to remove these. Again answer my question Bobby boy

Why remove it?

 

[Bobsican]

Well, to keep consistency as this rule has been applied before to another verse that already got deleted.

Now, I'm really not against the pages staying, but I still think that there's something off.

 

[00potato]

Is that really it? Consistency? Ok..? Why is that a priority when all that we are keeping consistent is less options and our policy deleting things just because someone doesn't like it. (Let's be honest that is why.)

That doesn't really justify removing harmless pages people worked to make. Their is no harm to keeping them, so keep them.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

CH was "harmless", but yet it still got deleted for breaking the rules. Calvin and Hobbes fall under the same problem.

If you see an issue, make a CRT about this and reality equalization for these characters as a whole, because for now they "break the rules"

 

[00potato]

Blue, can you actually answer the question? Or are you admitting that the profiles are harmless, proving me correct?

If the profile causes no harm then there is no reason to delete it. It is just a waste of our and the profile maker's time for no benefit.

So begins blue or I will rally the fate fans at you.

 

[Bobsican]

It being harmless is not an actual reason for it staying, the exact same idea was used for Composite Human and he ended up being gone in the end.

 

[The_Smashor]

Calvin and Hobbes should be a special case. Almost the entireity of the comic mostly uses Calvin's imagination. Otherwise, you might as well make Hobbes a 10-C doll.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Blue, can you actually answer the question? Or are you admitting that the profiles are harmless, proving me correct?
If the profile causes no harm then there is no reason to delete it. It is just a waste of our and the profile maker's time for no benefit.

So begins blue or I will rally the fate fans at you.

1. Yes, it is a "harmless" profile. But being "harmless", doesn't mean it doesn't violate the rules of VS Battles.

2. It doesn't need to be deleted if it doesn't violate the rules, but it does violate them since it is unnoteworthy since the superhuman and haxy feats are just his imagination

 

[00potato]

Blue, why do rules exist, come on buddy I know you can get this one.

 

[The_Smashor]

@00potato

The rules exist, even if there's seemingly no reason for them.

However, Calvin and Hobbes should be considered a special case, since almost the entire story is either Calvin's imagination, or reality mixed with Calvin's imagination.

 

[00potato]

If their are no reason or benefit to the rules, then why follow them? I can bet you that in many places their are plenty of outdated laws that nobody follows, but are technically their. This is no different.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, if that's the case, you'll have to do a CRT so they change in a way that let this get a pass, because with the current stuff, well, they simply can't.

 

[00potato]

Bob, you still haven't told me, what benefit does this bring. If you can't then just concede.

 

[The_Smashor]

Well, we could make that CRT here. What a CRT is is a discussion as to wether or not something should be applied.

To put it simply, should Calvin and Hobbes be considered a special case?

Also, you keep mentoining our rules for Reality-Fiction Interaction, but that page has nothing for something like this.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that it seems best to delete these pages.

 

[The_Smashor]

Doing so would also nerf Hobbes (Calvin and Hobbes) to 10-C due to being a toy. Not using imagination in Calvin and Hobbes defeats the point of even having the verse.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that The Smashor has a point.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

When you delete it, please save it's source code so I can put it on Joke Battles

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure. Maybe we could give them separate statistics for the real world and imagination?

 

[Wokistan]

I think the fact that the entire series is viewed through the lens of a rather precocious 6 year old and heavily uses magical realism type stuff through Calvin's imagination would make it rather difficult to index for.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

If we give the feats from Calvin in the real world,

Everyone is 10-B and haxless.

We either index the imagination feats or we just put them on JBW if imagination is downright disallowed

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure. It is a very prominent fiction, but may not be suitable for this particular wiki.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah I think the answer really just ends up being that we accept that not every verse is best suited to a vs debating/indexing context, even if it's good and well known./