Bravely Revisions

[First_Witch]

Its probably best to wait for Bravely Third before starting anything Tier 1 related.

I don't think we need to wait for a game that's not even confirmed to have a set release date IIRC if we're trying to carry out a revision. If this is remark to Tier 1 though, that's fine.

I think youre a bit confused son.

Again, i didnt say we need to wait for Third for 2A Bravely, because this is blatanley proofen with what we currently have.

The higher planes are currently NOT, so waiting for the game that specificly deals with the planes before trying to force higher dimensional Bravely is wiser.

 

[Doctor_129]

I can say nothing about the verse but the word µ¼íÕàâÒÇé

yes ´╝îwhen we use the word µ¼íÕàâ´╝îit can mean spatial dimension like Ú½ÿµ¼íÕàâ´╝îbut it also can mean world´╝êõ©ûþòî） ÒÇé

give you a example

þò░µ¼íÕàâ´╝êþò░µ¼íÕàâõ©ûþòî）´╝êdifferent world´╝îanother world）

if you can read Japanese´╝îyou can also see

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/次元

And ´╝îabout this verse´╝îdue to i know nothing about it´╝î i wont say anythingÒÇébut if you can give me more original Japanese text about something like Ú½ÿµ¼íÕàâÒÇüõ║öµ¼íÕàâÒÇüþäíÚÖɵ¼íÕàâ´╝îmaybe i can help moreÒÇé

 

[RotofBots]

2-A is legit but 1-B seems to be an extrapolation

 

[KingPin0422]

Using only information from Bravely Default and Bravely Second, I think that 2-A seems reasonable.

1-B/High 1-B may not have enough evidence for it right now, but whether or not we choose to wait for Bravely Third is not up to me.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I agree tier 1 sounds kinda ridiculous, especially since there's very little evidence that the verse has 6D to 11D structures (moreover higher dimensions than 11D) also "where the fAiry fLies" (had to put it in sorry).

"Higher planes of existence" is too vague of a term to upgrade a tier 2 franchise to tier 1 imo but I'll support the 2-A upgrade however myriad =/= infinite.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I was talking to Cal about this thread and he's good with 2-A.

 

[KingPin0422]

I'm bumping this, because I have something to add.

I posted a link to this thread on a Discord server, and someone who happens to be knowledgeable in Japanese told me that µ¼íÕàâ is just as misused in Japanese as "dimension" is in English. Even þò░µ¼íÕàâõ©ûþòî is more like "a different dimension's world" or "a world in a different dimension"; a plain "different world" would be þò░õ©ûþòî.

With this information, my stance on 1-B/High 1-B has changed from neutrality to opposition.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Figured I'd bring this up here, but there are still skills missing from the profiles of the characters that need to be added

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Like what?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I noticed that the stuff from the merchant class isn't on there, but that is just because that is what I was looking for. There is probably other stuff as well

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Medeus seems reasonable.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I agree with him for the most part as well, although the thread that called High 2-A into question was based on it possibly being a situation like xenoverse where the "real world" is not transcendent but parallel, but given just this thread that is obviously not the case

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It was, this thread that questioned his High 2-A rating, but the end result seemed completely mixed. Based on the context of this OP and the sources however, I personally do think High 2-A does make sense if it's transcendent upon an infinite number of Luxendarcs. Luxendarcs does refer to parallel timelines. "Myriad of higher dimensional planes" sounds vague and that sometimes refers to many afterlifes in that context.

But Celestial Realm is different, in which the Providence is described as an entity above the player, and can delete saved data; which all infinite timelines are portrayed as saved data files. And he can basically do similar things to what Mister Mxyzptlk can do based on the context. I'll ask Reppuzan about this thread first, but for now, I think At least 2-A, possibly High 2-A makes the most sense.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Perhaps a possibly higher on the end could be added as well. Either way, it seems like a good middle ground, but any mention of 2-B should be removed from Providence's profile or other celestials

 

[SinsofMan]

Well I want to clarify why I upgraded the verse to 'Possibly High 2-A'

To get into the Celestial Realm you need to have the player, a known celestial 'get you in' the realm.

We already know, and this thread also proved to me that there is a multiverse, which the Celestial Realm is above in every way.

Despite the fact Ouroboros can consume thousands of universes, he still can't just enter the realm as he pleases.

Finally, the final boss of Second is an diety of the Celestial Realm, who can interact with your save files.

None of these break our Reality vs Fiction Interaction. and both Bat Mite and Mr Mxy have been to 'our world' despite being 5-D beings on a 2-D surface.

In short, High 2-A stays. 2-A is definitely fine as a low end for Providence.

And @DarkDragonMedeus.

I have been trying to get a hold of Rep on skype for weeks now. He is busy, and stressed irl. I doubt he would respond.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ah, I see. I do know he's busy with school and stuff like that. I do hope he's safe though; same with Azathoth who's been inactive for weeks.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Difference is Mxy and Bat-Mite are outright stated to be 5D though.

 

[SinsofMan]

Difference is Mxy and Bat-Mite are outright stated to be 5D though.

That is why the word 'Possibly' is on the page.

@Medeus. I talk to Azzy in discord. He is fine.

Rep, I am a little worried about as he is a very close friend.

But enough derailing.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I've called over Ultima to comment on the High 2-A stuff. What he says is what I'll go with regarding the rating.

 

[Ercosore]

Likely/possibly High 2-A seems resonable.

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

So what are the conclusions here?

@SinsofMan

I would appreciate if you ask Azathoth if he can respond to my fanfiction.net PMs. One of them is very important.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Antvasima, I think we're waiting on Ultima Reality since he's knowledgeable on the High 2-A above tierings. But so far, "At least 2-A, possibly High 2-A" seems to be reasonable for Providence and the protagonists who scale from him.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I'm bumping this, because I have something to add.
I posted a link to this thread on a Discord server, and someone who happens to be knowledgeable in Japanese told me that µ¼íÕàâ is just as misused in Japanese as "dimension" is in English. Even þò░µ¼íÕàâõ©ûþòî is more like "a different dimension's world" or "a world in a different dimension"; a plain "different world" would be þò░õ©ûþòî.

With this information, my stance on 1-B/High 1-B has changed from neutrality to opposition.

I am against High 1-B for this same reason too.

I don't see proof that the "Layer" mentioned in the second scan is one of the myriads of planes of existence mentioned in the first one, either.

The only thing even hinting at this is the fact that it is referred as a "Higher Plane", which in this context seems to be more of a descriptive term than a reference to the verse's overall Cosmology. The planes of existence mentioned in the first scan aren't even described the same way, they are just called "Planes".

There is also the fact that we don't even give automatic High 2-A to higher planes of existence which exist outside of a 2-A Multiverse. At most a "possibly / likely higher" rating can be given to the characters which scale to it, while straight-up High 2-A requires a bit more context to it.

So, yeah, I don't see no one bee

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Providence still needs void manipulation by the way

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

Okay. Thanks.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Ultima, in this portrayal, it's the entire 2-A multiverses are perceived as saved data files in which Providence can delete them at will. Still unsure if that's enough qualification, but I'm fine either way.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Ah, that seems fine then.

 

[SinsofMan]

So the only thing that really needs to be changed is 2-B to 2-A, right? @Medeus Who wants to do the changes then? Also @Ultima You are partially correct, but a few verses do give ratings for higher dimensions outside a 2-A multiverse. Not just BD. But Magic the Gathering follows this rule. And this verse doesnt have a 'straight up' High 2-A. I gave it a possibly rating after talking with Repp, as we both agreed it was inconclusive until Bravely Third came out, but there was enough evidence to give it a 'possibly' rating.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I meant that just a mention of a higher plane of existence outside of the Multiverse isn't enough for being above 2-A, for that you need a bit more context to it. BD's case seems solid enough for a "possibly High 2-A" though.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

If Ultima says the High 2-A is ok, I suppose it can stay.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Alright, so High 2-A Providence and Bravely Second cast?

 

[SinsofMan]

Basically yes. At least 2-A, possibly High 2-A is fine.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I think just High 2-A is fine but it doesn't make much of a difference

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I agree with High 2-A then

 

[Antvasima]

So have you reached a consensus here then?

 

[SinsofMan]

So have you reached a consensus here then?

Yes, the consesus is we get an upgrade for pretty much everyones Bravely Second key to 'At Least 2-A, possibly High 2-A'. Sadly, I do not have time to do the changes (finals suck..) Perhaps DDM and Iapitus can do the changes?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that should hopefully be fine then.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'll need them unlocked before I take care of the edits, but Tiz Arrior, Ringabel, Edea Lee, Magnolia Arch, Yew Geneologia, and Providence (Bravely Default) would be the profiles in need of the changes. Oh yeah, I noticed that the 2-A stuff came from the first game, so the Bravely Default keys would also need to be updated to strait up 2-A? This would also include Agnès Oblige and Ouroboros (Bravely Default).

Oh wait, nvm; Airy simply said Infinite universes exist, not that she or Ouroboros can erase all infinite of them. It was simply Providence who could destroy all of them including the Celestial Realm. I think Default cast are fine where they are.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

They should also remain unlocked after