Kazuma_kuwabara
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Boruto Uzumaki (manga) vs Kaidou (One Piece) [ kaidou vote 6] [boruto vote 2]
- Thread starter Dragongod224
- Start date
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Kaidou copied Luffy's Snakeman ability, so he should be able to just culverin his dragon body around any portals.
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Boruto's got some relevant stuff here, I'll only bring up the significant bits. I don't necessarily think he'd win, but these would certainly help him:
-AP advantage: As mentioned
-Ninja Gear: Not especially good vs Buso, but still relevant for stuff like smoke bombs(those don't typically work vs Kenbun, but I'll explain why they might later on), and Chakra-Style-infused attacks
-Body Flicker: Luffy used Soru vs Kaidou at one point, showing this would work against him, but Kenbun allows him to react
-Substitution: Good, but Kaidou can see through it
-Shadow Clones: An Early Base Boruto can make 4, and creating the clones consumes no chakra iirc.
-Rasengan: Big AP amp, not especially significant to mention.
-Vanishing Rasengan: Infused with Lightning chakra, it's kinda like the Rasengan version of Kaidou's invisible Kaifu. Kenbun can still see it.
-High Compression Rasengan: A massively compressed Rasengan designed to punch through strong defenses and still knock out the opponent.
-Wind Style:
-Gale palm: Shoots wind out of his hands, can amp the speed of attacks and projectiles.
-Boruto Stream: He shoots a clone forward or the clone does the same for him. It's a huge amp to speed and AP, and sent him from 8-B to 8-A+ earlier on, though it's not gonna be doing nearly a 30x amp here, lol.
-Water Style:
-Wave Surge: He shoots out a wave of water. Not necessarily good for DF users, but as long as it's not too much, Kaidou can get out of the way.
-Water Formation Wall: He surrounds himself in a massive wall of water. This can easily block an attack, and creates, as mentioned, a lot fo water.
-Lightning Style: Boruto's Chakra Affinity
-Purple Lightning: This is a technique Kakashi also uses. It provides a huge amp to the user.
-Thunderbolt/Thunderclap Arrow: Kinda just tosses a bolt of electricity. Only relevant here because he uses it on his wave surge to electrocute the target.
-Jogan: Lets the user see invisible things, and gives a bit of precog iirc.
-Karma: Enhances the user's skill, slowly increases their power over a long period. Boruto starts with this active.
-Absorption: It allows him to absorb Ninjutsu, which I think means, by verse equalization rules, he can absorb specific Haki attacks? Kaidou doesn't really use any comparable techniques that could be absorbed, except maybe Hakai? To my knowledge, it also works on chakra constructs, but I'm not gonna claim he can slurp up Buso.
-Portals: Boruto makes portals and then pushes people through the portals. He opens them from his hand, so he can Angstrom Levy his opponent if necessary.
-Signature erasure: Boruto can completely erase his chakra signature.
-Byakugan: This allows him to see and sense chakra, analyze and predict movements, and use the Gentle Fist to strike someone's organs with every hit, even blocking off the chakra flowing through their body, which would essentially paralyze them. Now, Kaidou may not necessarily have Tenketsu, but the attacks still damage the internal organs.
-Borushiki: Momoshiki takes over when Boruto's knocked out, and he's even stronger, greatly so, even if Boruto's body has gone through a massive reduction in Chakra level, or even if Boruto's suppressing his power with meds
-Flight
-Resurrection: Momoshiki can resurrect Boruto, completely healed, if he's killed, but only once. This doesn't mean he can't still control him, so Boruto actually has to get beaten 4 times. Momoshiki resurrecting him also turns him into a full Otsutsuki.
-Rasengan: He can shoot that shit out like a compressed bullet with Rasendan, or massively increase its scale to be several meters in diameter.
-Ninja Gear: Not especially good vs Buso, but still relevant for stuff like smoke bombs(those don't typically work vs Kenbun, but I'll explain why they might later on), and Chakra-Style-infused attacks
-Body Flicker: Luffy used Soru vs Kaidou at one point, showing this would work against him, but Kenbun allows him to react
-Substitution: Good, but Kaidou can see through it
-Shadow Clones: An Early Base Boruto can make 4, and creating the clones consumes no chakra iirc.
-Rasengan: Big AP amp, not especially significant to mention.
-Vanishing Rasengan: Infused with Lightning chakra, it's kinda like the Rasengan version of Kaidou's invisible Kaifu. Kenbun can still see it.
-High Compression Rasengan: A massively compressed Rasengan designed to punch through strong defenses and still knock out the opponent.
-Wind Style:
-Gale palm: Shoots wind out of his hands, can amp the speed of attacks and projectiles.
-Boruto Stream: He shoots a clone forward or the clone does the same for him. It's a huge amp to speed and AP, and sent him from 8-B to 8-A+ earlier on, though it's not gonna be doing nearly a 30x amp here, lol.
-Water Style:
-Wave Surge: He shoots out a wave of water. Not necessarily good for DF users, but as long as it's not too much, Kaidou can get out of the way.
-Water Formation Wall: He surrounds himself in a massive wall of water. This can easily block an attack, and creates, as mentioned, a lot fo water.
-Lightning Style: Boruto's Chakra Affinity
-Purple Lightning: This is a technique Kakashi also uses. It provides a huge amp to the user.
-Thunderbolt/Thunderclap Arrow: Kinda just tosses a bolt of electricity. Only relevant here because he uses it on his wave surge to electrocute the target.
-Jogan: Lets the user see invisible things, and gives a bit of precog iirc.
-Karma: Enhances the user's skill, slowly increases their power over a long period. Boruto starts with this active.
-Absorption: It allows him to absorb Ninjutsu, which I think means, by verse equalization rules, he can absorb specific Haki attacks? Kaidou doesn't really use any comparable techniques that could be absorbed, except maybe Hakai? To my knowledge, it also works on chakra constructs, but I'm not gonna claim he can slurp up Buso.
-Portals: Boruto makes portals and then pushes people through the portals. He opens them from his hand, so he can Angstrom Levy his opponent if necessary.
-Signature erasure: Boruto can completely erase his chakra signature.
-Byakugan: This allows him to see and sense chakra, analyze and predict movements, and use the Gentle Fist to strike someone's organs with every hit, even blocking off the chakra flowing through their body, which would essentially paralyze them. Now, Kaidou may not necessarily have Tenketsu, but the attacks still damage the internal organs.
-Borushiki: Momoshiki takes over when Boruto's knocked out, and he's even stronger, greatly so, even if Boruto's body has gone through a massive reduction in Chakra level, or even if Boruto's suppressing his power with meds
-Flight
-Resurrection: Momoshiki can resurrect Boruto, completely healed, if he's killed, but only once. This doesn't mean he can't still control him, so Boruto actually has to get beaten 4 times. Momoshiki resurrecting him also turns him into a full Otsutsuki.
-Rasengan: He can shoot that shit out like a compressed bullet with Rasendan, or massively increase its scale to be several meters in diameter.
Kazuma_kuwabara
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except Shuron Hakke doesn't do that, his speed doesn't get boosted, and although his Haki does get stronger, it already has a set calculation on his profile
The issue with this is that 1. that's just incorrect as far as Luffy's profile says, and 2. we already know Kaido's upper limit. Luffy's Overkong Gun is 1.08 Zettatons, and Kaidou was knocked the f*ck out by the Bajrang gun, which on Luffy's profile is listed as 1.38 Zettatons, and Boruto's stronger than that. Kaido isn't exactly going to be able to no sell Boruto's attacks even at full stamina simply because Boruto's stronger than anything he's ever taken before
The image you provided is just Drunk Kaido standing still and taking hits from Luffy for free. That doesn't seem like a good Kenbun feat to me
Also, Kaido's Kenbun being hard isn't durability negation. First of all, I'm pretty sure a person punching a brick wall is gonna hurt their hand. Second of all, you're using examples of far weaker characters hitting far stronger characters, so ofc their gonna hurt themselves if they punched something harder and more durable than themselves. That's not durability negation
The surprise element doesn't matter since Kaido still needs to hit Boruto to win, and he can't 1 shot him without activating Borushiki. Not to mention, he doesn't have infinitely increasing stats, that's not how Shuron Hakke works
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It doesn’t really matter if Kaidou can see through Substitution. It doesn’t stop his attacks from not having hit Boruto.
And lol at Shadow Clones being useless here. The only way he’s taking them out is via a direct hit, meaning split focus.
And lol at Shadow Clones being useless here. The only way he’s taking them out is via a direct hit, meaning split focus.
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That doesn't help him survive against several other smaller guys who are all vastly superior to him stats wise. Sure Kenbun is a significant advantage but a 5v1 is still a 5v1, Kaido would have to dodge pretty much everything in order to not just lose outright, and that's not really something he's been shown to do. Not to mention, Kaido isn't the only example of Kenbun users being tagged and sometimes even overwhelmed by inferior/non-Kenbun users, such as Queen vs Chopper, Kaido vs Big Mom, Kid and Law vs Big Mom, Crocodile's brief scuffle with Doflamingo, Momonosuke vs Ryokugyu (before you say Momonosuke has Intermediate Kenbun, we're talking about fukin Momonosuke here, he can't control anything in his arsenal). If Boruto didn't have anything in his arsenal to counter this in any way, then yeah Kaido would just dance around him, but the fact is Boruto has the Jogan, which at least helps. Despite Kaidou's lack of Chakra, I'm pretty sure Verse Equalization makes it so that Haki and Chakra, both forms of "spiritual energy" should still be considered similar enough to function when it comes to "energy sensing", meaning Jogan should work as intended
except he's not faster in that form. Check his profile. as for the range issue, there's nothing stopping Boruto from just blasting through the flames with Vanishing Rasengan or Rasen-Dan and knocking him out that way.
that's not hax. If a dragon the size of the island they're fighting on opens his mouth in your direction, I'm pretty sure you don't need to see the attack to know an attack is coming.
Shadow Clones are as strong as the original. Kaido's fighting 5 Borutos at once. AOEing them with an attack isn't working since each of those 5 are much stronger than he is
except Rebecca's fighting Hakiless fodder who don't matter. Rebecca was completely useless in the Dresserosa saga because she couldn't do jack shit even though her Kenbun was better than literally all of Doflamingo's lower officers. Having Kenbun doesn't necessarily mean you insta body people who don't have it, and despite Kaido's advanced Kenbun, he's not just gonna body 5 dudes much stronger and smaller than he is, especially when all 5 of them have Jogan and can track him as well
Fallen_Angelicx
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Not seeing a possible wincon for Boruto personally which might make this a stomp. BFR could potentially be a wincon but even then apparently Kaidou has a counter;
Kaidou also has Perception speed amps among other notable amps. He also likely has a skill advantage. This is honestly a stomp, especially in my eyes.
Update: Not only does Kaidou outgrow the AP difference but he starts with a ASTRONOMICAL LS difference (Class K to Class E and tiers above that with amps). Boruto absolutely cannot win and will most likely die here lol.
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Kaido FRA, seem to be able to overwhelm boruto in many ways and even if boruto finds ways to counter/avoid getting defeated... Kaido turning into Flame Dragon would make it a near insta win for him
this doesn't seem like a stomp also, as kaido doesn't "always" go full out and boruto can do some damage
this doesn't seem like a stomp also, as kaido doesn't "always" go full out and boruto can do some damage
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Wait, this is Kaidou with all the info from his fight with Luffy?
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No one said that though?
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yes, the character would be the most recent/most powerful of their used "Key"
Fallen_Angelicx
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That's not how stomps work. Both characters need a significant wincon the other side cannot counter wholeheartedly, in otherwords, a decisive win. Being able to simply "do damage" isn't a wincon. Kaidou seems to have a counter to everything Boruto has rn and gets out haxed to oblivion.
So Kaidou can oneshot Boruto at any point in time?
. This match is even more of a stomp lol.
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So Kaidou can oneshot Boruto at any point?
People have literally made arguments for his few wincons that he has, making it not a stomp
Kaido having options to counter them does not make it a stomp, just a majority decision for him
Fallen_Angelicx
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And people have made arguments that counter the wincon Boruto has. I don't know where you get "few wincons" from, The only present one is BFR.
Kaidou is acknowledged here to have capabilities of warping himself around portals which is a counter to Boruto's BFR by @Kachon123.
Kaidou's endurance and stamina has been argued here to make it impossible for Boruto to take down Kaidou before he can outgrow the AP difference by @Kachon123.
There's now nothing Boruto can do to win this match and loses all scenarios when using his standard tactics. Making this match a stomp. Feel free to convince me on some possible ways Boruto can bypass slow motion perception speed to relative characters and outgrowing AP differences to oneshots for a decisive win.
Fallen_Angelicx
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Counterarguments have been proposed. However Counterarguments againt what a character has are not wincons. Wincons are decisive wins. Kaidou has like 4+ active wincons rn Boruto can't do anything about while Boruto is struggling to keep a BFR wincon due to Kaidou's own counters.
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You can literally say this for every match... Being able to counter something does not make it a stomp
Boruto has the slightly higher ap value, a stomp would be kaido blitzing and one shotting Boruto instantly and then winning...
If people are still arguing for the character then it's simply not a stomp... Viewing clones and BFR as wincons for boruto
Fallen_Angelicx
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Even if he can hold his own, how can he defeat Kaidou in battle? That's the point im trying to make, when Kaidou's endurance is insane;
Even if he can hold his own, He can't put Kaidou down for good while Kaidou can easily do such in turn while tanking everything Boruto throws.
What?
Kaidou has a 100% counter to BFR as argued above twice. It's not a decisive win, at least in my eyes.
Fallen_Angelicx
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Having a counter means a wincon has lessened to likely no chances of working. Effectively making it a stomp if the opposition has limited amounts of wincons. Kaidou's is direct counter to the ONE wincon Boruto has. He has no other, not a single one so he gets defeated 99% of the times and the one percent if where Kaidou somehow doesn't use the one counter he actually has for BFR. Kaidou has the advantage in everything else.
Doesn't matter. Kaidou tanks 1.7 Zettaton attacks without flincing according to @Kachon123 and has heart destroying endurance on that level. Boruto's 1.6 Zettaton AP advantage will mean jack in the beginnings of the fight as Kaidou has crazy endurance and durability aswell as overtime when he grows past that 5 minutes in. This all means that Boruto has no chance of defeating Kaidou in CQC.
Again wincons are decisive wins, not a way in which a character can oppose another in battle. Clones do not give Boruto a decisive win and I've already addressed BFR. If you all think this isn't a stomp then that's fine. I'll just spectate the rest of the match instead. I commented to state a thought anyway
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I meant 1.08 Zettatons, but the point still remains since the attacks Kaidou could facetank without defending himself are still 75% as strong as Boruto's attacks.
Fallen_Angelicx
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Indeed. The AP advantage Boruto has isn't nearly enough to cause significant or even life threatening damage to what Kaidou has dealt with before. He'd just tank, adapt/get stronger and oneshot Boruto overtime due to this. Even if we ignore Kaidou's endurance, He has Precognition & speed amps to avoid damage if needed, so potent that he can see relative characters in a standstill;
Boruto is cooked beyond belief here. In no realm could he overwhelm Kaidou into defeat. His Buso seemingly covers the slightest "AP Advantage" Boruto has aswell. I personally upon gathering all this info can't see how this wouldn't be considered a stomp match. Please do inquire me on what Boruto would accomplish with his clones yall as even those could be flung to another continent seeing the sheer LS difference between Kaidou and Boruto.
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Boruto massively upscales off that value, as I previously mentioned, and uses amps and Gentle Fist. Does he win? No. Can he hurt Kaidou? Yes.
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With Kaidou's using Buso Emission to stop Boruto's attacks from even coming in contact with him, I don't know if he really even can.
Fallen_Angelicx
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So does Kaidou, as @Kachon123 previously mentioned;
Checkmate.
If his amps are all unquantifable, It doesn't mean much as Kaidou has his own respective amps aswell that are also unquantifable which both would cancel out each other. Pretty sure he has amps that have respective values aswell. Do make sure these aren't AP amps aswell because AP was never the issue in this matchup nor does the slight advantage change anything.
Two things;
- Is it Dura Neg?
- Is it potent enough to do more damage than what Kaidou has casually survived? E.g. the destruction of his heart.
You forgot the part where doing damage was never a wincon to begin with. Within at least 90% of the matches on here opposing characters can damage each other... But that doesn't result to anything..... Winning does...... Boruto needs ways he can win against Kaidou without them having ways Kaidou can utterly Uno Reverse them..... Aka a decisive win.
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Yee that's a fine stance to haveAgain wincons are decisive wins, not a ways in which a character can oppose another in battle. Clones do not give Boruto a decisive win and I've already addressed BFR. If you all think this isn't a stomp then that's fine. I'll just spectate the rest of the match instead. I commented to state a thought anyway
As people are arguing for boruto, it just isn't a stomp even if you view at as one
I view stomps as the opposing character can literally do nothing, instantly getting one shot or not be able to damage them no matter what
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Kaidou downscales from the Bajrang gun which is 1.38 zettatons
Again, Kaidou downscales from the Bajrang Gun which is 1.38 Zettatons
Why is everyone treating Shuron Hakke like some sort of Saitama reactive evolution? Shuron Hakke makes Kaidou drunk, more unpredictable, and makes his Haki stronger. It's not an omniboost. Read his profile
1. Technically yes, Gentle Fist injects the user's chakra into the opponent's chakra pathway system, which Kaidou should have something similar if Verse Equalization is taken into account
2. No, it's not, unfortunately. The main purpose of Gentle Fist is to prevent the opponent from using chakra by jamming their chakra pathway
except it's not like Kaidou is facetanking Boruto's hits. Boruto is already stronger than the Bajrang Gun that took Kaidou out, and even assuming Kaidou's at full stamina, 5 Boruto's spamming Rasengans and Rasen-Dans stronger than the Bajrang Gun isn't exactly something Kaidou can tank willy nilly
Except we already know that something weaker than Boruto, the Bajrang Gun, can knock Kaidou the **** out. I agree that "hitting someone really hard" isn't normally the main reason why someone wins, but Boruto's hitting Kaidou way above his shown limit here. He also has means of landing those attacks despite Kaidou's Kenbun, plus means of avoiding Kaidou's attacks. Neither of these characters really have any "hax", it's honestly just hitting each other.
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Bajrang Gun is not 1.38 Zettatons.
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It got downgraded a while ago. Currently it only far upscales from 1.08 for oneshotting Kaidou even through his flame clouds were covering him.
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so he far upscales from 1.08
Even if we assume it upscales from the Over Kong gun, that's still upscaling from 1.38 Zettatons
that's still weaker than Boruto
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kaidou fra
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Vote counted
Now
[ kaidou vote 6] [boruto vote 0]
If anyone vote this matchup Inconclusive please we specific
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Kaido FRA although tbh this match would be removed soon after some upgrades 
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Vote countedKaido FRA although tbh this match would be removed soon after some upgrades
[ kaidou vote 7] [boruto vote 0]
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Wait hold on. Doesn't both boruto and Momoshiki odama rasengan get a more than 2x amp? That should change things a bit
noninho
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ahm....yeah, he does
the only stage where he's L5-B is with Shuron Hakke (A state, when he's drunk. He's not on this one as it would be specified.) and Kaen Daiko, and OP states clearly:
so i don't get it
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