Bloons Tower Defense Profiles

[Robot972]

Okay. That's what I suspected, but thought I'd double check. I'll make a post on the wiki later.

 

[Robot972]

Here's why BSM Super Monkey needs to be its own profile, separate of BTD Super Monkey

 

[Robot972]

I updated the Monkey Engineer page finally

 

[Robot972]

Before I post the Monkey Buccaneer, I want to see what you guys think of what I'm putting for the sizes.

• Unupgraded: A bit over 1 meter
• Tier 1 and 2 upgrades: Large Size (Type 0) (The Off the Coat track shows the Crow's Nest ship at this size, and it's likely all Tier 2 (and possibly 1) upgraded ships are about this size)
• Path 1: Large Size (Types 0 and 1) (Destroyer should be the same size as the Cannon Ship, Aircraft Carrier should be bigger, Carrier Flagship, as its interior is meant for Monkeys, should be Size 1)
• Path 2: Large Size (Types 0 and 1) (The Shipwreck track shows the Cannon Ship at this size, Pirate Lord's ship should be Size 1)
• Path 3: Large Size (Types 0 and 1) (Merchantship should be the same size as the Cannon Ship, Favored Trades and Trade Empire are cargo ships and should be Size 1)

 

[Qawsedf234]

Looks fine to me. I guess if you to get a better number try and see if BMC has a comparison size image.

 

[Robot972]

I looked at the BMC stuff, but the only advanced ships the Ship's Foundry shows is Monkey Pirates and Destroyer

 

[Robot972]

Okay, what are we doing for the size of characters in BATTD?


Are we scaling them to BTD? Are we scaling them to AT? Are we scaling the characters to their original verses?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Anything from Adventure Time likely cannot be used as a justifcation since it's not canon to the core universe. In other words Bloons Finn is different from Adventure Time Finn.

 

[Robot972]

Yeah, I'm making separate profiles for them based off their BATTD selves, but all the power scaling follows the same scaling as everything else in Bloons (Lead, MOABs, etc.). Sorry, I realize the wording for the question was shitty and VERY easy to misunderstand..

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Robot972/Bloons_Adventure_Time

I'm just not sure what to do for the size.

 

[Qawsedf234]

As long as the ability descriptions are similar-ish it's probably okay to cross scale.

 

[Robot972]

There's no difference between the Bloons in BTD and the Bloons in BATTD physically, though the later MOABs are quite a bit more hax resistant in BATTD

Still want to know what I'm doing for size though

 

[Robot972]

Uploaded Max (BATTD) and Finn (BATTD), Still working on stats for BSM Super Monkey.

 

[Robot972]

Now that I've finished the AP stats for BSM Super Monkey, can I get opinions? Any needed changes?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

What happened to being able to hit Camo Bloons being non-physical interaction? I saw it on earlier drafts but it just disappeared after a while it seems.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Hmmm. Dunno really. Their description does mention that towers need to defect them in order to actually hit. But that may be more of a sight bases tjing canonically rather than phasing, aimce spikea and stuff can pop them.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I'd say that there's more instances of things that should be able to harm them if it was just a sense-based thing than not, like basically every tower in the game.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also true. I'm fine with a likely tag if nothing else. But if others are good with it, just straight up NPI is fine with me.

 

[The_Smashor]

Likely works for me. This applies to Dart, Super, Ace, Buccaneer, Wizard (This also applies to Shimmer's powernull), Dartling, Sniper, Ninja, Spike, Engie's Cleansing Foam, Heli Pilot, Sub when it gets a profile, Wizard Lord, Quincy (Who's profile isn't on the verse page) and I think Max.

 

[Robot972]

On the topic of Sub, are we doing High 6-C First Strike? I never finished the profile because I wanted to ask that.

It can completely destroy ZOMGs and can destroy BADs if they're damaged enough, putting it at comparable level to Sun Avatar

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm good with a "likely High 6-C" rating.

 

[Robot972]

I think we can scale ZOMGs to the Sun Avatar's AP in terms of durability, as a Sun Avatar cannot defeat a ZOMG by themselves.

Are we still going to follow this? If so, does that mean BAD and the comparable Boss MOABs should also have "likely High 6-C" since they're sort of comparable to the Sun God?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Are we still going to follow this? If so, does that mean BAD and the comparable Boss MOABs should also have "likely High 6-C" since they're sort of comparable to the Sun God?

ZOMGs should also count, since in BTD5 (and possibly in BTD6 as well but i didn't tried it there) a single sun avatar can barely finish a ZOMG, so they should also be comparable.

Also, shouldn't Plasma Monkey's be around 6-C or so? Since I'm pretty sure that 5-6 of them can finish a ZOMG in long maps, where even billions of 9-As attacking at the same time would do absolutely nothing to a High 6-C

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Camo stuff has been added btw

 

[Qawsedf234]

As a tower defense game we have to limit the scaling since its theoretically possible for a huge amount of any low tier tower to be able to defeat a boss level enemy on some maps. Imo, if a tower can't 1-3 vs 1 a enemy before the round 100+ buffs it shouldn't really scale.

So no to the plasma monkey but yes or probably for some other higher tier towers.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

As a tower defense game we have to limit the scaling since its theoretically possible for a huge amount of any low tier tower to be able to defeat a boss level enemy on some maps. Imo, if a tower can't 1-3 vs 1 a enemy before the round 100+ buffs it shouldn't really scale.
So no to the plasma monkey but yes or probably for some other higher tier towers.

Fair enough. Though shouldn't MOAB Assasin be High 6-C for heavily damaging ZOMGs? And tier 5 moab assasin straight up one shots them

 

[Qawsedf234]

As I've said, if the tower can reasonably 1 vs 1 a ZOMG or BAD (though afaik no single tower without micro can beat a BAD besides a True Sun God) then it should be able to scale to the Sun Avatar.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

As I've said, if the tower can reasonably 1 vs 1 a ZOMG or BAD (though afaik no single tower without micro can beat a BAD besides a True Sun God) then it should be able to scale to the Sun Avatar.

Tier 5 MOAB assasin can one shot the zomg layer and leave only the BFBs left, and tier 4 do 1/4 of the damage to destroy their ZOMG layer.

Also, a maxed temple can defeat a BAD, although it do needs camo detection to deal with the DDTs.

Anothet thing is that it seems kind of weird that ZOMGs are like trillions of times stronger than BFBs, who are like 9-A

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Also, do Robo Monkeys and Dark Knights (With Plasma Upgrades, as the rest are clearly weaker) can scale to a sun avatar? Since 2 of them can defeat a ZOMG in almost easy map

 

[Qawsedf234]

Would probably qualify for a likely rating.

 

[Robot972]

I'll just throw this here since we discussed it.

• M.O.A.B.: 616 damage, 200 hp: 9-A (via size, baseline)
• B.F.B.: 3164 damage, 700 hp, 4 MOABS: 9-A (x4 size, scaling to MOAB)
• Z.O.M.G.: 16,656 damage, 4000 hp, 4 BFBs: At least 9-A (x16 size, scaling to MOAB, or by comparing to Sun Avatar), likely High 6-C (via scaling to Sun Avatar)
• B.A.D.: 55,760 damage, 20,000 hp, 2 ZOMGs and 3 DDTS: At least 9-A (~x35 size, defense scaling to MOAB), likely 8-C (damage scaling to MOAB), possibly 6-B (scaling to Sun God)
• D.D.T.: 927 possibly 16,656 damage, 400 hp 9-A (roughly the size of MOAB, via scaling to MOAB

Does this look accurate?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Looks good to me. Although I should mention that we probably shouldn't scale any other tower to the Temple or True Sun God.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Looks good to me. Although I should mention that we probably shouldn't scale any other tower to the Temple or True Sun God.

I agree. Aside from maybe the other Super Monkey paths, There isn't a single tower comparable to them

 

[Robot972]

Looks good to me. Although I should mention that we probably shouldn't scale any other tower to the Temple or True Sun God.

The only tower aside from other Super Monkeys that potentially would is First Strike Sub, though that's more by completely destroying a ZOMG.


Also, I suppose Pat Fusty's big squeeze should be at least 8-C via popping the outer layer of four ZOMG's, right?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah

 

[Robot972]

So, we know that Pink Bloons can outfly Super Monkey's projectiles. Do we know which Bloons can outfly Boomerang Monkey?

 

[Qawsedf234]

All of them because Boomerang Monkeys always miss

I think yellow and maybe green bloons can consistently outfly them.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

All of them because Boomerang Monkeys always miss
I think yellow and maybe green bloons can consistently outfly them.

What about Bionic Boomer and MOAR glavies? I dealt with yellows and pinks pretty well with those two towers. Also Glavie Lords are insanely powerful too. Perma Charge would consistently deal with pinks easily too

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bionic and glavies hit more consistently due to a higher rate of fire, the attacks being more targetive, or larger projectile size. Actually, realizing it, if anything they're more just outrunning the tower's aim rather than outrunning the projectile.

 

[Robot972]

Well, is there really any way to actually calculate that?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Theoretically, yeah. Just take how long it takes a bloon to cover a certain distance vs how long it takes the boomerang. But that's going to cause major issues of gameplay vs lore statements.