Bloodborne vs Dark Souls (Grace)

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Hmmmm, I'm not sure if Gehrma or Maria would be more thematically fitting here but Maria isn't 4-C so my choices are limited.

Speed Equalized for safeties sake, fight takes place in the Hunter's Dream (you'd be dreaming about her too if you were in Gehrman's shoes), both are at opposite ends of the dream, Blackflame Friede and fight to the death.

Gehrman, the First Hunter

Sister Friede

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Why is she 4-C scaling from the High 4-C Ashen One and Soul of Cinder?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Ask Bambu. I talked to him about a few DS pages I wanna make.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. It's downscaling if we're scaling to Ashen One. Ashen One is barely into High 4-C.

2. Scales to Yuria, actually, who harmed the Soul of Cinder (again, who is barely into High 4-C). 4-C is consistent with being inferior.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Anyways.

Gehrman's advantages include resisting fire (though whether that constitutes the abyssal fire of Dark Souls is questionable) and arguably a skill gap, considering he is the most skilled Hunter in existence. He's also no stranger to dealing with enemies that can resurrect or go invisible. That said.

Friede takes my vote as of right now. Despite Gehrman being used to tactics like invisibility and resurrection, he doesn't have a counter to it, so she can do it without detriment. The skill gap is small if it exists at all, same for AP gap.

So Friede takes it for me.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Gehrman should be vastly more skilled than her

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'd argue otherwise.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

If we're refering to time spent alive and combat capable as the measureing stick for skill, which I'd argue is our only metric, then Friede is likely way older then Gehrman. The hunt's been a thing for only a lifetime or two while Friede and her sisters are, what several hunderd years old maybe a few thousand? I mean, if a (probably really bad) theory I have is ture then Yuria was probably around before Gwyn cooked himself way past burnt.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

...

I doubt that. I don't doubt they're roughly equal in lifespan, but there's nothing making the Dark Souls people that old.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

The thing about ages in Souls is that, as with everything else, they are very unclear, it's completely feasible that she is even thousands of years old, considering we've seen other humans live that long, but there just isn't enough information to say that clearly. We do know that Friede is older than Yuria though.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Patches is several millenia old, it's not too far fetched to think others might be similarly anicent.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Patches is several millenia in the ringed city

At the end of time

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Patches is several millenia old, it's not too far fetched to think others might be similarly anicent.

True, but

Friede isn't in the Ringed City.

Gael is, the Priestess from Lothric is, Patches (or Lapp or whatever) is, and many others, but that doesn't mean they are that old and that experienced as when they were before the end of time.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

The point is Patches is still around during and after Friede's time.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Patches is by far one of the oldest humans in the verse though, only surpassed by Gael. We'd need to know how long ago the Sable Church was established to answer how old Friede is, though I would say from everything we see about it in the game that it's been at least several hundred, if not far more, depending on how long we assume the cycles last, since it seems to be a previous civilization.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's a fair point, the Sable Church. It wasn't in the first two (or, if it was, it was never mentioned) but it does seem to be fairly old. I don't doubt Friede is at least a couple hundred years old. But we have no reason to assume she's thousands of years old when we find her.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I'm pretty sure there is evidence that points to the church coming about after new londo was flooded or around there

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

That doesn't give us much to work with though, we don't know how much time has passed since then. That just means it's some time after DS1. Kaathe was almost certainly still around when it was founded, but again, that doesn't tell us much because we don't know when he died.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

after new londo is like

the entire series though

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

bump

 

[Keeweed]

As much as I love Gehrman, and I'm glad he's getting a match after years, being able to resurrect two times and covering the entire screen in fire and ice is pretty op. Friede also probably shouldn't be that far off skill wise since the Ashen One can fight the SoC (but he's probably better intelligence wise). There's a reason Fiede's boss fight is considered to be extremely annoying and being able to nuke the entire screen after killing her multiple times is one of them.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If Friede back scales from a High 4-C then this is a stomp as Gehrman is baseline 4-C, there is almost a 7x gap between them

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Could just show me the calcs that Soul of Cinder have.

Also what? 7.5x is the stomp thing, dude what is happening lol

 

[WeeklyBattles]

no, 5x is a stomp

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, it isn't.

"Assuming a situation in which one character has humanoid physiology and is hit in the torso region, the assailant will normally be treated as needing an attack potency 7.5 times higher than their opponent's durability in order to one-shot them."

That's literally from the One-Shot page, for the love of god please stop spreading these random statements you've concocted, this has been going on since before there even was two threads of you explaining why it should be 5x after I said it literally wasn't that by site standards (that got backed up by the way). You know better dude, come on.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Could just show me the calcs that Soul of Cinder have.

He is bare minimum 9x base star level due to having the combined power of at least 9 Lords of Cinder

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes.

But I want those calcs you mentioned, since he's "well into High 4-C" according to you. 9x baseline Star level isn't even 2x baseline High 4-C.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

5x has been the standard difference for a stomp for years. If you dont like it make a crt

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Cool, I misspoke, stop changing the subject

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Dude

You've gotta be

You made a CRT

You got told you were dead wrong

You were there when 7.5x was decided on

You have the common sense to look at One-Shot lol

Stop it man

Seriously

It's getting old

 

[Keeweed]

What counts as a one shot goes all over the place, but I think a 5 times ap advantage along with the ability to pretty much nuke whereever Gehrman is standing with a gaint wall of dark flames probably makes this a stomp.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Cool, I misspoke, stop changing the subject

Not changing the subject, just bringing up the continuously increasing levels of suspiscion your random claims about Soulsborne are making.

First, High 4-C based on a feat that doesn't exist.

Second, this shit about claiming a calc exists putting him WAY into High 4-C when no calc exists and he's not even 2x baseline

And finally more of this "well if you don't follow my headcannon on what is and isn't a one-shot go make a CRT about it" when this was literally already done the last time you pulled this

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I have not now nor do i never nor will i ever make assumptions about soulsborne. i work going by facts and nothing else.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I have not now nor do i never nor will i ever make assumptions about soulsborne. i work going by facts and nothing else.

Whatever you say pal.

As it stands. You're wrong. The AP gap at most is 6.71x- this is below the gap of 7.5x that is accepted on the official page- not to mention that you literally made the discussion about how it has totally 100$% been 5x to spite me, where it was decided 7.5x should be it.

My vote to Friede. She has AP and versatility.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The ap gap is over 5x. German is unable to harm her in any way shape or form. This is an ap stomp.

 

[Keeweed]

I now want to bring up a match I was in earlier: Thanos (dinosaur) vs Coca-Cola kid. The kid was only 4 times stronger, but he still stomped because he had literally ever other advantage, which while it's not as bad here. How does Gehrman have anyway to win when she's both 5 to 7 times stronger and has a AoE that Gehrman can barely dodge. He has to kill her three times plus constantly avoid being instant nuked. She doesn't one shot, but she might as well.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The ap gap is over 5x. German is unable to harm her in any way shape or form. This is an ap stomp.

Read the damn page dude.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

snip

To note:

Gehrman has a win-con in that he is in fact able to eventually kill her. I've made the argument that he's likely more skilled than her, though not by a large margin, and is much more prone to abusing his own AOE (the air blast thing) and flight.

 

[Keeweed]

"The gap needed to qualify varies from verse to verse, which makes a one-shot from a VS Battles standpoint very hard to determine."

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"The gap needed to qualify varies from verse to verse, which makes a one-shot from a VS Battles standpoint very hard to determine."

Ctrl + F "7.5".

Read it very closely.