Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Super Moderator
Administrator
Calculation Group
Silver Supporter
- 21,589
- 19,050
Premise
Bloodborne has been a mess AP wise for quite some time. This CRT aims to completely remove current tiers (8-C and High 4-C) to replace them with those set below, based on a handful of blogs done by Poesis Element, ChaosTheory, and myself. Speed wise, the verse is fine, MHS+ for dodging anything from meteors to lightning.
Misconceptions
Bloodborne is High 4-C based on A Call Beyond.
No to both of these. A Call Beyond was accepted at the mid-end, at 4-C. Now, granted, that is a baseline version of the Call Beyond and some Great Ones (Ebrietas) show a unique capacity for the magic. But it isn't quantifiably superior. So A Call Beyond is 4-C. I've discussed this with Weekly, who confirmed that we accept the attack at 4-C. So, I asked what the scaling for High 4-C was.
Bloodborne is High 4-C for Amygdala creating the Nightmare Frontier, a sub-dimension with a sun.
This is wrong on several counts. One, Amygdala didn't create the Nightmare Frontier, it just resides there, much like several deceased Amygdalas are within the Hunter's Nightmare. Two, the dimension does not have a sun. In fact, it is unique in the fact that it is the only dimension in Bloodborne without any visible celestial bodies at all.
Bloodborne is High 4-C based on the Moon Presence, who transcends the verse.
Again, blatantly incorrect. The Moon Presence is, while considered stronger than other Great Ones, is not that superior. Oedon is the only arguable case for High 4-C as he does directly transcend the verse. However, we don't know how strong he is comparatively, just that he is utterly above them. We don't scale to Oedon as we never fight him and MP is never implied to be its equal.
Calculations
Bottom Tiers
Verdict: 8-A
Low Tiers
Verdict: 7-C
Mid Tiers
The dimension creation calc needs looking at, as it supports this tier.
Verdict: 5-A (albeit near-baseline)
High Tiers
Verdict: 4-C
God Tiers
Tiering
So, how would these calculations affect the characters of the verse? Let's start. For reference, the Hunter fits into literally every tier at some point in the game.
Bottom Tiers
These characters would adopt an 8-A tiering. Note that a lot of these are placed here for lack of lore-based scaling options, notably late-found Chalice Dungeon bosses. Bloodletting Beast is a terribly difficult boss, but has no lore reason to be above this tier.
7-C, scaling to Living Failures.
These guys would get their current tiers replaced with 5-A (once the calculation is accepted/rejected). If rejected, we default to 5-B based on the supporting feat.
These guys are 4-C, and are the weaker ends of those that can use A Call Beyond. Keep in mind that people like Yurie, the Last Scholar can be fought before Rom, but this is the only showing of 4-C prior to fighting Ebrietas.
These guys are At least 4-C due to being significantly stronger than the characters above.
At least 4-C, likely Higher.
Post Script
Bloodborne is known for inconsistencies in regards to this site. For example, Paarl can feasibly be encountered at the same time as The One Reborn. However, lore takes precedence over this fact, and nothing in lore suggests Paarl should be comparable. Furthermore, every character is lowballed to a fair degree- Paarl is scaled to his lowest possible rating (i.e., 7-C). It is with this in mind that this CRT attempt is made, to give a reliable scaling so we don't have, say, Younger Madaras Twin being "At least 8-A, likely 7-C, possibly 5-A" for fighting one boss in each tier. In fact, probably best we leave him as Unknown.
Bloodborne has been a mess AP wise for quite some time. This CRT aims to completely remove current tiers (8-C and High 4-C) to replace them with those set below, based on a handful of blogs done by Poesis Element, ChaosTheory, and myself. Speed wise, the verse is fine, MHS+ for dodging anything from meteors to lightning.
Misconceptions
Bloodborne is High 4-C based on A Call Beyond.
No to both of these. A Call Beyond was accepted at the mid-end, at 4-C. Now, granted, that is a baseline version of the Call Beyond and some Great Ones (Ebrietas) show a unique capacity for the magic. But it isn't quantifiably superior. So A Call Beyond is 4-C. I've discussed this with Weekly, who confirmed that we accept the attack at 4-C. So, I asked what the scaling for High 4-C was.
Bloodborne is High 4-C for Amygdala creating the Nightmare Frontier, a sub-dimension with a sun.
This is wrong on several counts. One, Amygdala didn't create the Nightmare Frontier, it just resides there, much like several deceased Amygdalas are within the Hunter's Nightmare. Two, the dimension does not have a sun. In fact, it is unique in the fact that it is the only dimension in Bloodborne without any visible celestial bodies at all.
Bloodborne is High 4-C based on the Moon Presence, who transcends the verse.
Again, blatantly incorrect. The Moon Presence is, while considered stronger than other Great Ones, is not that superior. Oedon is the only arguable case for High 4-C as he does directly transcend the verse. However, we don't know how strong he is comparatively, just that he is utterly above them. We don't scale to Oedon as we never fight him and MP is never implied to be its equal.
Calculations
Bottom Tiers
Verdict: 8-A
Low Tiers
Verdict: 7-C
Mid Tiers
The dimension creation calc needs looking at, as it supports this tier.
Verdict: 5-A (albeit near-baseline)
High Tiers
Verdict: 4-C
God Tiers
- No calcs, but some beings are pretty far above A Call Beyond, or at least, in the form that the Hunter is able to manipulate. It is described as a weaker version, so this makes sense.
Tiering
So, how would these calculations affect the characters of the verse? Let's start. For reference, the Hunter fits into literally every tier at some point in the game.
Bottom Tiers
These characters would adopt an 8-A tiering. Note that a lot of these are placed here for lack of lore-based scaling options, notably late-found Chalice Dungeon bosses. Bloodletting Beast is a terribly difficult boss, but has no lore reason to be above this tier.
- Vicar Amelia: Can fight an early game Hunter
- Father Gascoigne: Can fight an early game Hunter, superior to Henriette
- Henriette: Uses the Kirkhammer at speeds approaching that of lightning
- Blood-Starved Beast: Can fight an early game Hunter
- The Witch of Hemwick: Can fight an early game Hunter
- Bloodletting Beast: Can fight an early game Hunter
- Undead Giant: Can fight an early game Hunter
- Keeper of the Old Lords: Can fight an early game Hunter
- Retired Hunter Djura: Can fight an early game Hunter, superior to his pupil in the Hunter's Nightmare, who is directly comparable to the Blood Starved Beast it is protecting
- Merciless Watchers and Chieftai: Can fight (albeit barely) with an early game Hunter.
- Watchdog of the Old Lords: Can fight an early game Hunter
- Henryk, the Old Hunter: Can be fought and killed by an early-game Hunter, comparable to Father Gascoigne
- Alfred, Hunter of Vilebloods: Can fight the Blood Starved Beast, can wield the Kirkhammer at speeds approaching that of lightning
- Martyr Logarius: Vastly superior to Alfred, Hunter of Vilebloods
- Shadow of Yharnam: Comparable to the Merciless Watchers and Keepers of the Old Lords as servants of the Pthumerians, can fight an early game Hunter
7-C, scaling to Living Failures.
- Living Failures: Can summon meteors containing such energy
- Yamamura, the Wanderer: Can battle the Living Failures
- Darkbeast Paarl: Can battle Yamamura the Wanderer
- Defector Antal: Can battle Darkbeast Paarl
- Loran Darkbeast: Comparable to Paarl
- Ludwig, the Holy Blade: Comparable to the Living Failures
- Laurence, the First Vicar: Comparable to the Living Failures
- Simon, Seeker of Secrets: Can survive attacks from Brador
- Brador, the Church Assassi: Can battle the Hunter directly after the Living Failures
- Valtr, Master of the League: Can battle Ludwig the Holy Blade
- Abhorrent Beast: Comparable to Darkbeast Paarl, can fodderize an early-game Hunter
These guys would get their current tiers replaced with 5-A (once the calculation is accepted/rejected). If rejected, we default to 5-B based on the supporting feat.
- Amygdala: As a Great One with some standing, should be comparable to Rom and Kosm.
- Rom, the Vacuous Spider: Prevented the Paleblood Moon from descending upon the Nightmare
- Orphan of Kos: Created the Hunter's Nightmare, a sub-dimension containing a "possessed moon". Comparable to Rom.
- Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower: Was one of the Hunters that hunted down and killed Kosm (Note: Brador attacking the Hunter after her, too, is considered outlier-ish, as she is the only such encounter on this level before him)
- Celestial Emissary: Was a successfully created Great One, and should be comparable (although inferior) to Rom, can only be encountered some time after Rom
- The One Rebor: Can only be encountered directly after Rom.
- Eileen the Crow: Survived attacks from the Bloody Crow of Cainhurst, can battle the Hunter on equal ground sometime after Rom (Note: Eileen being encountered in early game is largely game mechanics, as she A. is not meant to be attacked, and B. does not die to Henryk without the Hunter's interference, meaning her potentially dying is entirely a result of gameplay balancing)
- Bloody Crow of Cainhurst: Fodderized Eileen at this time, and is significantly stronger than the Hunter after defeating Rom
These guys are 4-C, and are the weaker ends of those that can use A Call Beyond. Keep in mind that people like Yurie, the Last Scholar can be fought before Rom, but this is the only showing of 4-C prior to fighting Ebrietas.
- Micolash, Host of the Nightmare: Can use A Call Beyond
- Forgotten Madman and Madman's Escort: Can use A Call Beyond
- Yurie, the Last Scholar: Can use A Call Beyond
- Imposter Iosefka: Can use A Call Beyond
- Pthumerian Elder: Comparable to those capable of manipulating A Call Beyond, high-ranking Pthumerians should rank here
- Pthumerian Descendant: Comparable to those capable of manipulating A Call Beyond, high-ranking Pthumerians should rank here
These guys are At least 4-C due to being significantly stronger than the characters above.
- Yharnam, Pthumerian Quee: Vastly superior to other Pthumerians
- Ebrietas, Daughter of the Cosmos: Can manipulate a much stronger and more pure version of A Call Beyond
- Mergo's Wet Nurse: Superior to Micolash, should be comparable to Ebrietas
- Gehrman, the First Hunter: The strongest Hunter, somewhat comparable to Great Ones inferior to the Moon Presence
- Moon Presence: Superior to Gehrman, should be superior to Ebrietas and Mergo to an unknown degree
At least 4-C, likely Higher.
- Formless Oedo: Transcends the reality of the verse to an unknown degree to the point where he abandoned his physical form, becoming a formless voice. Laughably superior to all other Great Ones to an unknown degree.
Post Script
Bloodborne is known for inconsistencies in regards to this site. For example, Paarl can feasibly be encountered at the same time as The One Reborn. However, lore takes precedence over this fact, and nothing in lore suggests Paarl should be comparable. Furthermore, every character is lowballed to a fair degree- Paarl is scaled to his lowest possible rating (i.e., 7-C). It is with this in mind that this CRT attempt is made, to give a reliable scaling so we don't have, say, Younger Madaras Twin being "At least 8-A, likely 7-C, possibly 5-A" for fighting one boss in each tier. In fact, probably best we leave him as Unknown.
