Bloodborne Hunter Resistance to Soul Manipulation

[Monarch_Laciel]

The Hunter currently has resistance for soul manipulation for the reason that he is "Able to wield the Chikage without having his soul instantly absorbed"

The description of the Chikage is:

"Foreign-made weapon wielded by the royal guards who protect Annalise, Queen of the Vilebloods at Cainhurst Castle. When the intricate, rippled engraving that spans the Chikage's blade is imbrued with blood, the sword sings in scarlet hues. However, the rite eats away at the wielder's very essence."

The item does bloodtinge damage when transformed, and constantly drains the user's HP.

I'll just quote what I've said elsewhere on this:

Chikage only says it drains the wielder's "essence", and given the context I'm pretty sure that's refering to blood, not the soul.
It's also not really resistance seeing as it continually drains them. Saying that they resist it because they don't instantly die isn't a valid reason if it doesn't have proof of instantly killing anyone else with its drain. It's more likely that's just its basic drain rate.

It was argued against me that:


No actually it is referring to the soul in this case, its the only weapon in the game that refers to it as such whereas weapons like the Bloodletter which works the same way (Damaging the Hunter to make the weapon stronger) states that it uses blood

My response:

If the only reason it's the soul is because it uses the word "essence", that's a pretty flimsy justification, even without context saying otherwise.

"When the intricate, rippled engraving that spans the Chikage's blade is imbued with blood, the sword sings in scarlet hues."

It's pretty clear that it's also using blood.

The context that I keep referring to is that Bloodborne is a game very heavily geared towards blood. Souls are practically never mentioned in as much significane.

I am in favour of removing this resistance from the Hunter. What are other people's thoughts?

 

[Wokistan]

Souls are kinda replaced in Bloodborne with "Blood Echoes", which can represent blood or eldritch, forbidden knowledge. Souls are for Dark Souls.

I'd agree that "essence" is too vague.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It drains the Hunter's soul, if it were blood it would actually say blood like it does for literally everything else that has to do with blood

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

"Essence" can also refer to blood, and in the context of bloodborne, would make a lot more sense.

"We are born of the blood, made men by the blood, undone by the blood"

Sounds like they consider blood their essence to me.

One of the possible definitions of "essence" is "an extract or concentrate obtained from a plant or other matter and used for flavouring or scent"

If you applied that to a human to determine what their "essence" is, that sounds a lot like blood to me.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except it doesnt refer to blood. Not once. Blood is referred to as blood in Bloodborne.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It doesn't refer to the soul either.

"The wielder's very essence"

In bloodborne, where everything and everything is focused on blood, the blood church, the blood ministration, old blood, pale blood, blood as alcohol, blood as implied prostitution, what do you think people would consider their essence?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Their soul, because thats what it is

Plus the Hunter also has access to armor that grants him the power of the Keepers of the Old Lords who had their souls removed and destroyed

As well as taking hits from beings that are disembodied souls with no issue

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

"Because that's what it is" is not evidence. "Essence" does not automatically refer to the soul, and the entire theme and context of Bloodborne points to what it actually does refer to.

I assume you're referring to the Bone Ash Set?

" Armor made of bone ash,worn by the oldest keepers.The keepers, who mind the slumbering Great Ones, gained eternal life, preserved in ashen form in a ceremony of flame that cremated body and soul"

"Now, their frail armor is white and sinewy, a window into an arcane lost art."

"The long, pointed hat is a symbol of the old keepers and is considered evidence of their companionship, forged in a certain sin." Nothing about him gaining their powers, and they don't resist soul manipulation either, it's just the nature of the ritual preserved their "body and soul" "in ashen form"

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It didnt preserve their body or soul, it destroyed them

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It "cremated their body and soul". Cremation turns things to ash. It then "preserved them in ashen form".

It's obviously saying that it turned their body and soul to ash, but preserved them in that form.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Regardless, there is nothing saying the armour gives the Hunter the Keeper's powers, and even if it did, this thing about their souls being preserved was from a keeper specific ritual that the hunter has not undergone, and even then, this is still a ritual that preserved their souls in ashen form, they didn't continue to exist without their souls or resist having their souls turned to ash through their own power.

So everything involving the Keepers is irrelevant, which brings us back to the chikage.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bloodbump

 

[Poiesis_Element]

Not sure if this is enough to count, but the Bloodletter has this description:

"The demented hunter weapon brandished by Brador, the Healing Church assassin. The Bloodletter assumes its true and terrifying form after it draws upon blood from the inner reaches of one's body and soul. This is the only effective means of expelling tainted blood, or so Brador, isolated in his cell, continued to believe."

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

That's definitely something, but it wouldn't give resistance to soul manipulation, seeing as the hunter is not resisting anything, he's still drawing his blood with it. Hence the damage.

 

[Wokistan]

It would count as a minor resistance due to not dying from it since we seem to consider any form of soulhax an instakill. Jace Belere has minor soul manip resistance for that reason. He was hurt by a manablade as if it were, well, a blade, but he didn't die from his soul and mana being cut.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

That really should not be. I'm pretty sure we had a discussion a while back on how soul hax does not automatically equate to a one hit kill.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

bumping this because I forgot about it

 

[Abstractions]

I think you make a lot of sense, so I see no issues with it.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Agree with this.

 

[Poiesis_Element]

Just thought to look at the item description for the Tear Blood Gem, as I recall noting something on the subject of life essence as a term. This is what it says:

"A blood gem that fortifies weapons and adds various properties.

Droplet blood gems are special gems that adapt to various weapons and shapes.

Created from a shining silver doll tear, this blood gem is a quiet but unfaltering friend that continually restores HP, the life essence of a hunter. Perhaps the doll's creator had wished for just such a friend, albeit in vain."

So yeah, life essence probably doesn't refer to the soul so much as the physical condition of hunters. Hell, it probably just means it regenerates the amount of blood lost in fights as it heals injuries taken, similar to how various bosses repair bodily damage mid-fight. Granted, that second part is probably just head-canon.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah I agree they wouldn't resist Soul Manip based on Chikage, not sure where that idea even came from tbh. If the references to Bloodborne in DS3 were confirmed to be legitimate shared-universe material, then maybe, but as it stands that's some weak sauce right there.

 

[Poiesis_Element]

Probably also means we should remove the Numbing Mist's soul manipulation from the Powers and Abilities paragraph since it too uses the term "life essence" as well.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Right. Numbing Mist is just Power Null on healing.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Great.

I will make the changes then, unless Weekly or someone else has something more to say about it in the next 12 hours or so

 

[Deadchaos13]

So is this going to be applied?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Yes