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Bleach's Physiology Blog (All Characters)
- Thread starter Deceived3596
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speedster352
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I agree
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I'm fine with getting rid off of BFR, honestly it just clutters up the page and is kinda redundant since literally every character that has portal creation inherently has a form of BFR (though i believe there's a feat of BFR through portal creation by Azashiro)
Alright.
We don't need a statement of them being capable of that? their power is to deconstruct and manipulate Reishi, which is what constructs Souls within Bleach, but they can't deconstruct those same Souls given they have inherent resistances towards their ability through Reiryoku. No it isn't given the evidence we have on the Quincy's ability to manipulate Reishi and how it interacts with Reishi, you would be assuming more compared to my claim given that evidence.
I believe both make sense given the scan, would something like "Corruption (Type 2: Which causes Death Manipulation/Poision Manipulation/Statistics Reduction)" work as some-sort of a compromise?
"Telepathy"
"Is the ability to transmit one's thoughts and feelings to another person at a distance without using other conventional means of communication. It can also allow for mind reading in certain cases, and is often associated with Mind Manipulation."
Shunsui's statement is the literal text-book definition of what Telepathy is, so i disagree with this assertion.
Would something like "Greater Enhanced Senses/Enhanced Non-Physical Interaction" work?
I don't like this line of logic, your basically saying we shouldn't give this ability out to people who haven't shown it, despite the fact i doubt you would disagree with giving someone like Yamamoto this, given he has way better control over his Reiatsu than Sui-Feng. Maybe a good compromise would be only giving Stealth Mastery to anyone that has better control over their Reiatsu than Sui-Feng?, This should satisfy both parties.
"When you're halfway strong, not only don't you die, you can't even pass out"
This is a general statement made by Shunsui about how having even halfway decent amounts of Reiryoku makes it so that you don't die to attacks that would normally be fatal towards others and that your pain resistance is heighten to the point of being able to resist the pain of attacks that would normally cause you to pass out.
You would have to be disingenuous to say this isn't inherent to people with decent amounts of Reiryoku.
"Did you know that a sword is more lethal...when swung with both hands" and "But i bet you don't know...how much more lethal it is."
Again with the previous point, Kenpachi's making a general statement about the power of ones attacking being increased through the use of both hands.
You'd have to be disingenuous with you argument to say this doesn't apply to other characters, can we at least compromise that this only applies to characters that're on this version of Kenpachi's level in-terms of Reiryoku? This hopefully should satisfy both parties.
The statements implies EE ("completely eradicate" which is usually assumed to mean Existence Erasure as shown and even accepted on Yamamoto's profile). Would something like "EE/Immortality Negation (Type 4)" work? since i actually have no idea how i got deconstruction in the first place from those scans, so that needs to be removed from the blog.
Loyd already addressed this and you agreed with it so i won't address this point.
Sure i'm fine with getting rid of Resistance Negation.
"Damage Boost Page"
"Is an ability that induces the phenomenon in which the power of an attack is boosted if a condition is met. This differs from Statistics Amplification in the fact that the user isn't boosted, rather the attack itself. Furthermore, it isn't limited to Attack Potency, in which other effects can be done if the condition is met. The effect is temporary, lasting as long as the condition allowing for its increased power is met. Due to this, the attack's usage is normally boosted considerably"
Bala's fall more under Damage Boost than they do Statistics Amplification.
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Communicating through spiritual pressure is not telepathy.
That applies to every character that has more than one arm.
It's not a racial ability.
That applies to every character that has more than one arm.
It's not a racial ability.
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"Telepathy"
"Is the ability to transmit one's thoughts and feelings to another person at a distance without using other conventional means of communication. It can also allow for mind reading in certain cases, and is often associated with Mind Manipulation."
I know.... That's why it isn't in any of the Racial categories but rather the "High-Tier Soul" one.
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I don't think it's an ability of High-Tier Souls either, which is what I meant by that.
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I actually agree with this, it should be down at the "Low-Tier Soul" section of the Blog given Kenpachi's statement is very general in its implications.
So i'll change that.
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Okay... Let me rephrase. I don't think it belongs there at all.
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Explain why.
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Because it’s a fundamental part of every character with a vaguely humanoid ability in the wiki, like the difference between a jab and a kick. You aren’t going to list that in ap, it’s just a natural assumption that gets worked out in a vs battles thread. If we made each char get a rating or listed power for the difference between each possible blow they make it would be clogged af
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He has already been shown to use the basic abilities of every race so he should
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when did he start absorbing stuff from the outside like the quincy? (i would have no doubt he has that base ability but i dont remember him ever using it)
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No you didn't? you just basically said "duh dumbass of course swinging with two hands is stronger than swinging with one", which i already know is true but within Bleach it actually means more than just that as shown within the scans I've posted.
....Did you read the justification/the scans of that feat? have you seen the fight? you don't go from being comparable to someone (actually at this point of the fight Kenpachi was weaker than Nnoitra) to than one-shotting them through using two hands, normally within any other Manga.
This is something unique towards Bleach and is treated as some-sort of an Damage Boost within the series.
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I’ve read the entirety of bleach man. I know exactly what you’re referring to, and even if it did have justification beyond that through raw AP, during their fight Unohana specifically calls out that example as an example of Kenpachi unlocking power he sealed himself in a pinch. Any extra AP is entirely attributed to that. It’s specifically a kenpachi thing
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A two-handed attack being a stronger attack than an attack using one hand is not physiology, it is physics
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Also even if it was true that this was something that could be profiled, it’s not specific to bleach, it’s common in any combat manga. Since I was just reading kengan an example is Wakatsuki knocking out Julius with a single kick after his punches failed to knock him out because “kicks are 3x more powerful”. Manga exaggerates the effects and differencues caused by real life physics, and that’s something that exists in all manga. My point about it not being worth cataloguing would still stand, and more then that, every other bleach char already uses two hands most times so it wouldn’t even be a noteworthy AP difference than what anyone except kenpachi already has.
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Unohana never specifically calls out this as an example for Kenpachi at all? what're you talking about?
Can you grab these scans for me?
Edit: I hope your not talking about this scan, are you? Because if you're this doesn't prove your point at all, this literally has nothing to do with the Damage Boost argument i'm making.
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That is exactly what I’m referring to yes
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Well, I didn't call you a dumbass but essentially yes, it is just two hands being stronger than one.
You need more evidence if you want to say this is actually an inherent ability for characters otherwise we'd have to accept that Nnoitora is the biggest dumbass in the world for not just one-shotting Kenpachi by holding onto his scythe with all six of his arms at once when he attacks.
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It kind of does prove my point because it’s something specific to Kenpachi and wouldn’t apply to anyone else? Kenpachi obviously thinks he’s getting his extra power from his second hand but the reason he’s actually getting so much power is that hes pushed into a corner. That was the whole reason he decided to actually use swordsmanship
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in all fairness Kenpachi has something specific to him that gets called out in universe as the reason he suddenly barely wins or loses a fight
still isn’t a racial ability tho
EldemadeDityjon
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He absorbed reshi in beginning of the series if i am correct.
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[
When he used blute vein which absorbs reshi into the veins. When he fought Candice he seemingly uses reshi to make getsuga and when he was stuck in quliges jail he absorb qulige's spirit energy to get out
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This scan doesn't prove your assertion by any-means.
The statement is in reference towards Kenpachi slowly regaining his original power within the battles he partakes in after he unconsciously restrained his power within his fight against Unohana. The argument i'm making is that Kenpachi SPECIFICALLY states that swinging your sword with both hands increases your attack potency and as shown within the feats it does so massively.
The Unohana scan doesn't prove nor disprove any arguments we're making since it doesn't prove nor disprove anything in relations to the argument we're having.
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It actually does because Unohana specifically notes that other reasons given for him winning or losing in that manner are incorrect since she was the only one who actually understood the reason and existence of his sealed power. All other statements regarding it, including Kenpachi’s own, are made with the lack of understanding called out by Unohana, making them unreliable statements. It is more reasonable to assume in that case that Unohana’s logic is the reason for the difference rather than anything Kenpachi says
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Let me lay it out for you like this. This argument has essentially 3 potential schools of thought
-Kenpachi’s latent power is the real reason for him defeating Nnoitra and not a massive power boost from using both hands
-Kenpachi using both hands is the reason for the power boost but it’s not something specific to bleach
-Kenpachi using both hands is a power boost and it is specific to Bleach
In the first school of thought, no damage boost is given because it’s a circumstance falsely attributed to Kenpachi’s usage of both hands like Unohana says, and in actuality is an entirely different ability specific to him. Not a raciwl power
In the second one, Kenpachi may be getting a power boost that is worth noting from using both hands, but the issue comes in the fact that that power boost is basic physics and logic being used by the verse, and other verses do that too. It’s not something to be noted because A. It’s an appeal to reality by saying that it’s not something that could normally happen in reality and thus is a power, and B. We already don’t catalogue differences in power from simple technique differences or usage of different body limbs because those are more about fighting style than strength, like Baki’s jab suddenly being faster than anything in the verse. That’s exactly why the aforementioned Wakatsuki had his “Higher with Kicks Removed”
In the third school of thought, this would only apply to Kenpachi anyway because every other shinigami already regularly uses both hands because they are trained in Zanjustu and use it regularly.
in every possible school of thought there is no situation where this can be seen as a racial power
-Kenpachi’s latent power is the real reason for him defeating Nnoitra and not a massive power boost from using both hands
-Kenpachi using both hands is the reason for the power boost but it’s not something specific to bleach
-Kenpachi using both hands is a power boost and it is specific to Bleach
In the first school of thought, no damage boost is given because it’s a circumstance falsely attributed to Kenpachi’s usage of both hands like Unohana says, and in actuality is an entirely different ability specific to him. Not a raciwl power
In the second one, Kenpachi may be getting a power boost that is worth noting from using both hands, but the issue comes in the fact that that power boost is basic physics and logic being used by the verse, and other verses do that too. It’s not something to be noted because A. It’s an appeal to reality by saying that it’s not something that could normally happen in reality and thus is a power, and B. We already don’t catalogue differences in power from simple technique differences or usage of different body limbs because those are more about fighting style than strength, like Baki’s jab suddenly being faster than anything in the verse. That’s exactly why the aforementioned Wakatsuki had his “Higher with Kicks Removed”
In the third school of thought, this would only apply to Kenpachi anyway because every other shinigami already regularly uses both hands because they are trained in Zanjustu and use it regularly.
in every possible school of thought there is no situation where this can be seen as a racial power
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I don't care to argue this point anymore so i'm fine with conceding on it.
I'll remove it from the Blog.
I'll remove it from the Blog.
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then i guess he can have the base quincy ability
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Thank you for being reasonable.
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I pretty much said all of mine in my first post, though it's a bit outdated now so you can get the revised ones in this one.
Yes, I do think we need a statement because up until we see Quilge use Sklaverei, the idea of taking Resihi directly from a soul isn't present. It takes more assumption on your part to assume that people just inherently resist it than to assume that it's just not possible for Quincy unless they're using Sklaverei. In fact, the very technique of Sklaverei and the scan given for it earlier in this thread indicate that Quincy just normally can't take the Reishi of others who are alive. So that's just a flat no from me.
Yeah sure, I can agree with that.
Just isn't enough said for me to agree with rewarding telepathy. More context is needed I think.
Yeah sure.
That actually does not satisfy me because when Sui-Feng mentions it, she specifically calls out her squad for having that ability. This seems more like a manner of technique that the 2nd Squad learns/teaches than something that is just capable of being done by those with a certain level of control over their Reiatsu. So leaving this specific to the characters that show it, I believe is the better cause.
Firstly, I would ask that you don't call me disingenuous. Most of the time I or really most anyone voices disagreement with you, you say something to imply that we're somewhat malicious or just ignorant in a manner that is rude, and it makes talking and responding to you exhausting and does nothing to make me or I think any of your opposition want to agree with your points.
"When you're halfway strong, not only don't you die, you can't even pass out"
This is a general statement made by Shunsui about how having even halfway decent amounts of Reiryoku makes it so that you don't die to attacks that would normally be fatal towards others and that your pain resistance is heighten to the point of being able to resist the pain of attacks that would normally cause you to pass out.
You would have to be disingenuous to say this isn't inherent to people with decent amounts of Reiryoku.
With that said, I will also admit that I was just flat-out wrong here, I hadn't properly read through the last words on that page for Shunsui and had missed that part. I agree with the pain tolerance bit.
Already dropped so need to comment.
"Did you know that a sword is more lethal...when swung with both hands" and "But i bet you don't know...how much more lethal it is."
Again with the previous point, Kenpachi's making a general statement about the power of ones attacking being increased through the use of both hands.
You'd have to be disingenuous with you argument to say this doesn't apply to other characters, can we at least compromise that this only applies to characters that're on this version of Kenpachi's level in-terms of Reiryoku? This hopefully should satisfy both parties.
The reason why I say soul destruction would be better here is that the mechanics of what Quincy do is very specific towards souls from how the series treats it. So listing it as Soul Destruction (which is a form of Soul Manipulation instead of EE) helps to make it clear that this is specifically for souls.
Bala actually shouldn't be grouped with Damage Boost because they're self-damage reduction and limited stat amping. So maybe make a line separate for that.
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what quincy do still counts as EE as they state multiple times that they erase the soul. EE does not have to be physical to classify as EE
EE: "remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind"
so the EE of the soul specifically
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Doesn't need to the "present" as you claim given the inherent properties of Qunicy's ability to deconstruct and manipulate Reishi. No it doesn't? it takes more assumptions on your part given what we know about Quincy's and their ability to manipulate Reishi. That doesn't indicate anything your arguing for Due, The Sklaverei statement doesn't imply that Quincy's aren't normally able to deconstruct others because they're living, That's a assertion that isn't backed-up by any statement. While the assertion that the reason why Quincy's can't normally do it to living creatures because they have inherent resistances towards it is backed-up through Reiryoku mechanics and logical deduction.
Great.
Due it literally falls under the text-book definition of what Telepathy is...
Great.
She doesn't say HER SQUAD is the only squad to have it/teach it either Due, this is an argument from Silence.
Their are more feats of people who aren't apart of the 2nd Squad that have shown the ability to mask their Energy, let me grab them and when i do i'll re-edit my comment and place them here.
Duedate... Imma be real with you, i do believe you're disingenuous with some of the arguments you make against me, i also believe some of the arguments you make against me are also constructed through fallacious reasoning. I'm not going to hold my tongue and just be submissive to you Due, when i'm debating people who i believe are trying to rat against me i get angry. And with some of the points you've used against me (Like the Telepathy and Stealth Mastery) it doesn't help change this feeling against you.
But even with this all stated, i'll apologize and say sorry for implying your being disingenuous, i know this apology most likely won't mean anything to you given what i previously said but this is the best i can do.
Great.
EE can only be Soul Erasure tho? and since what Quincy's do against Hollow's aligns with Existence Erasure more than it does with Soul Manipulation i believe it's more accurate to just go with EE.
I can just make sure to directly state that it only applies to Souls and that's it. That should clear-up any future confusions.
? How are they Self-Damage Reduction and Limited Stat Amping? Bala's don't reduce the damage taken by the user nor they amplify the stats of the user either?
They fall directly under what Damage Boost is more than anything you've stated.
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Again, never before in the series before we see Sklaverei is the idea of taking Reshi from Souls present. Only when it is employed are we clearly shown this is possible but the explanation for it is that this is their basic ability taken to its greatest heights. To me, that implies that the fault isn't in people inherently resisting the attempts, the fault is in the quincy for not having the skill/power to do so.
So, no, I do not agree with giving this reistance. Unless you or someone else brings something new to the table, I don't think I'll be agreeing with this.
While the statement given might fall under the text-book definition, it doesn't give enough clue for this to be clear-cut. Unless you can list an instance somewhere in the series, where a character just transmits their thoughts to others without the user of a Kido or Zanpakto-like ability, there isn't enough here for me to approve giving telepathy.
You're right she doesn't say only her squad can do so, however, with that statement and the fact that the Quincy robot seemed surprised, this isn't just something everyone of a certain power can do. It's a skill thing. And it being a skill thing, I think means that it should be rewarded to those that show it instead of just flatly everyone a certain strength. Now, if you have other instances of characters showing Stealth Mastery, I'll walk back this point but for now a no from me.
It's not about being submissive, it's about being respectful. I get angry with you all the time, but you don't see me ever attacking your character. But if you can't see that, fair and fine. Just understand that if you can't be respectful when disagreeing, going forward, I will not bother responding to your responses. I will do my job as a moderator and give my input on what you have to say in your OPs, but if you have any responses, I will ask that you past them through another member, such as Arc. That's all I have to say on this matter.
Fine with me.
Because a ball has reduced damage, not increased. So listing under damage boost doesn't make sense. And the speed of the attack goes up as a trade-off of the damage drop, which since we don't have anything for just a flat speed increase, Limited Stat Amping seems the best bet.
It's a weird technique that doesn't really fit well with our listed powers and abilities, so that's just how I'm making sense of it.
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Any damage done to soul reflects in the physical body. So if the soul is erased so is the body
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