- 6,275
- 2,697
Official translation take precedent over fan translation, using fan translation that when compared to the official ones show that words are changed and taken out is dishonest.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Bleach — Small Revision
- Thread starter Null
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bleach empowerment
- Status
- 7,904
- 14,966
His point is that the difference in the translations don't meaningfully affect the argument. Also, don't accuse people of dishonesty for a simple mistake, he wasn't aware it was a fan translation.
- 307
- 344
We literally see it happen.
Kenpachi chips the blade and gets a massive cut. Then Gerard proceeds to explain how it works. It's pretty clear that it's reflecting damage, unless you want Gerard to specifically say " My sword has damage reflection".
- 13,587
- 5,754
In the scans on the profile. The sword is “hope” so when it is damaged, that “hope” becomes “despair”. Kenny puts a tiny nick in Hoffnung and receives a wound of comparable size on his body. When Tōshirō cuts it in half, Gerard talks about how he will be struck by despair or some shit only to find that Tōshirō takes no damage since he power nulled Hoffnung’s hax.
- 7,904
- 14,966
I'm not saying that, I just want to be clear what you're saying the explanation for how it works is.
Right, okay, so both of you guys this is my question: The section in which Gerard is explaining the "damage reflection ability" is the lower-left panel of T2K's first scan? In which Gerard says:
"Hoffnung is a sword of the people's hopes bundled together. When it breaks there will be despair."
And in this case, despair is how he is referring to the damage the nicks to his blade cause? I.e. the second scan T2K provided where Kenpachi suddenly has a giant gash on his body. That gash is the despair?
- 307
- 344
The 2nd scan (Chapter 667) actually comes before the first one (Chapter 668), I just placed it later. Kenpachi gets cut after chipping the blade, then Gerard proceeds to talk about hope and despair which is why we see it again in the corner there. The despair would be the damage reflection, that's why when Toshiro cut the blade, Gerard was expecting him to take damage, but it was nulled.
- 7,904
- 14,966
"Despair" seems like a somewhat strange way to describe "damage reflection" or a giant cut on someone's chest, to be honest. That seems like he's being metaphorical, no?
- 307
- 344
The character loves using that type of language. He doesn't need to say it reflects the damage when we see what happens after the blade gets chipped. It's why he was expecting Toshiro to get the same treatment as Kenpachi after cutting the blade.
Obviously nothing happened cuz it got frozen.
- 7,904
- 14,966
Sure, I'm not challenging the damage reflection, it appears to be demonstrated fairly simply. Kenpachi chips the blade and then he gets a big gash on his blade.
But you're saying this character speaks in metaphor a lot, and that his phrase about "My sword is made of people's hopes. If it breaks, there will be despair" is referring to damage reflection metaphorically, is that right?
Malekith
He/Him- 891
- 673
No, if it breaks hope is lost and then only despair remains.
- 7,904
- 14,966
Sure. But this statement you're quoting, is that Gerard explaining his sword's damage-reflection ability? He says it right after Kenpachi experiences the damage reflection and asks what happened, so it seems natural.
- 307
- 344
Yeah, from my understanding that's how it is. The "despair" is the blade reflecting the damage, unless I'm misunderstanding something and others can correct me.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,000
- 12,681
He said his sword is formed from hope. He wasn't saying my sword is hope to consider it metaphor. Both has different meanings.
- 7,904
- 14,966
I understand, although that's not really my point. It seems as though when he says "If it breaks, hope is lost and there will be despair" or however it is phrased, that the word "despair" is how he is referring to the damage Kenpachi received after chipping his sword. Is that correct?
- 8,170
- 2,204
No he’s not literally saying it’s damage reflection in that scan. We just know cause we literally see what happened when it was damaged. And later he asks Toshiro if he’s a fool cause he proceeds to cut it in half before he realized it was nullified.
- 307
- 344
I think Deagonx is asking if the "despair" part is referring to the damage reflection, he's not asking if Gerard said it reflects damage verbatim. From my understanding that's what he's referring to.
- 7,904
- 14,966
Right, he says despair. But this explanation (paraphrasing) "The sword is made of hope, if it breaks there will be despair." This is given after Kenpachi is hit with the damage reflection and asks what happened. It appears that this is him explaining the swords damage reflection ability and the "despair" refers to the damage Kenpachi received. Is that correct?
If not, what is he referring to there? Has anyone been suddenly afflicted with despair when damaging or breaking the sword, or just physical damage?
KingNanaya
He/Him- 3,133
- 4,314
I think I would be pretty upset if every time I broke someone's sword it put a wound in my chest.
- 8,170
- 2,204
the reflection is the “despair” as far as I’m aware. Which would kill or nearly kill anyone besides Kenpachi lol.
- 7,904
- 14,966
Perhaps you would, but I don't see any indication that Kenpachi is suddenly afflicted with hopelessness every time the sword chips.
That seems to make the most sense to me as well.
- 8,170
- 2,204
Kenpachi is not the standard for pain tolerance in Bleach. He’s quite the outlier. Anyone else would pretty much die or be incapacitated.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,000
- 12,681
Hope and despair are literally two sides of same coin. Toshiro removed hope so there was no despair falls on him.
Kenpachi is the type of guy who doesn't give a shit about his body parts getting destroyed or someone dying on his side. I don't see him getting despair in anyway. He is not getting despair is not good example to reject the statement.
- 7,904
- 14,966
Sure, but that's not really my point. I am saying that we have no indication that Gerard's sword has some kind of emotion manip ability where the people receiving the damage are also literally experiencing a sensation of hopelessness/despair. It seems that "despair" is simply referring to the damage reflection, which you appear to agree with.
Toshiro froze the sword, so he didn't get damaged when he destroyed it.
So you're saying that the word "despair" in Gerards explanation doesn't refer to the damage reflection ability?
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,000
- 12,681
Toshiro nulled it's ability. Bruh this already been repeated multiple times in this thread. Why would he gets affected when he stopped hope?
Kenpachi was indeed getting weaker because of despair Falling on him
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/Bleach_668_12.jpg
- 8,170
- 2,204
I do agree the power of the sword is damage reflection. But no one has said it’s some sort of emotion manipulation. You’ve said that because you believe it works like the lanterns. He’s just saying his sword is made of hope and if you damage his sword you will despair.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,000
- 12,681
Actually I did find the scan. It's indeed Reflects despair. It's not a metaphor as Daegonx says.
- 7,904
- 14,966
Sure, I agree Toshiro nulled the ability, I am not at all rejecting that.
Is the following scan meant to be evidence of that? I don't follow, isn't Kenpachi just getting slower because he is accumulating more and more physical damage?
You also didn't answer my question. The first time Kenpachi experiences the damage reflection, he asks what happened, and Gerard explains Hoffnung is made of people's hope and when it breaks there will be despair. Thus, it appears the word "despair" is referring to the physical cut that appeared on Kenpachi's body. Do you disagree with this?
He currently has concept manip as a result of the belief that he was being literal, but it seems he was being metaphorical as "despair" is not literally "physical cuts."
- 7,904
- 14,966
How does this help determine if it is a metaphor or not? All he says is that Kenpachi is getting slower and that fighting him without nicking the sword would be impossible (as we see more and more cuts accumulate.) He then says "Swords get nicked in battle, and despair will be carved into your body." Again, do we see any indication of "hopelessness" occurring? Or is he again describing physical cuts metaphorically as despair?
All I see is a guy getting damaged physically, I see no despair and no indication that emotional manip is occurring. That would make it metaphorical.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 17,000
- 12,681
Kenpachi is same guy who got his hand ripped and bleeding and still capable of fighting without getting slower. Infact he got stronger throughout the Unohana fight Despite him getting even more damage. I don't see him getting slower because of small wounds like these. It will be out of character for him
I don't agree it's physical damage alone and Kenpachi is different type of character in the series. He is not someone who gets tired over Physical damage not to mention this is still a small amount of damage he has shown to survive and fight even big amount of damage with no difficulty.
Gerard calls Hoffnung as power and supernatural functions. He doesn't call it as some physical thing.
Last edited by a moderator:
- 7,904
- 14,966
So your belief is that he is entirely unimpeded by his physical injuries, and that the only reason he is slowing down is because he's becoming more and more "hopeless?" Due to an alleged emotional manip ability of Hoffnung?
Alone or at all? My question hasn't really been answered, so I'll try to be more specific. After Kenpachi's first damage-reflection ability appears, he asks what happened and Gerard then explains Hoffnung is made of people's hopes and when it breaks there will be despair. Does the word "despair" here mean "physical damage" or does it literally mean "hopelessness?"
If Hoffnung's ability were that people who nick the blade suddenly have a giant gash in their chest, that would be a supernatural power even if the damage being done is physical, so this is not a rebuttal to my point.
Malekith
He/Him- 891
- 673
Both
- 7,638
- 7,806
Based on the OP, I can agree that the stuff about hope isn't enough justification for our Concept Manipulation standards.
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,807
- 898
Literally all the body parts of the soul king govern a certain concept
lol.
lol.
- 7,904
- 14,966
He's being both metaphorical and literal at the same time? That's just not logical IMO, and we only ever see Kenpachi experience physical injuries.
Okay, then that part of the CRT has reached enough agreement to be implemented, but the EE aspect will stay. We're already past the grace period so I will close this now and apply the changes.
- 7,638
- 7,806
Regardless of the Soul King, I don't see on the Gerard Valkyrie profile how the actual concept of Hope is being created, altered, or destroyed.
- Status
Similar threads
