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Bleach — Small Revision

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Null

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Some abilities in bleach characters must small revised

Aizen Erasure Existence removal
In his profile page, it is shown that Aizen's Reiatsu is in third fusion through his statement "Cease to exist" which could make it possible to completely eliminate someone. but unfortunately it statement doesn't true and inconsistent, Now I would show some proof of the truth of Aizen's reiatsu through his actions, actually here his Reiatsu just turned Don Kanonji's property to be ashes, it doesn't really completely disappeared. beside that, the bottle which indicated has just turned to ashes also proves it more accurately. so for the statement "Cease to exist" could be inference only the Flowery word implies that the reiatsu makes the opponent disappear from existence, but not completely, since tho literally has been refuted with directly canon indication. so that would be changed to deconstruction with ashes stage.

Limited Conceptual Removal
In the profile page, Hitsugaya & Gerrard there CM3 inside, but thats not entirely true, since hoffnung itself which contains the hope of the people which mentioned in him page profil doesn't prove it as explicit something fundamentally as well as govern anything spesifically aspect as represent his concept, righteously doesn't meet the qualifying requirements on the concept manipulation page.
Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.
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In fact furthermore, the effect of the hoffnung weapon isn't more than just being able to reflect attacks only, so these just get attack reflection abilities.

Empowerment for Gerrard
this is the right option solution to gave a decision for the miracle case, since it's stated that Gerrard's body would become stronger and his it body be gigantic since stimulated through the fear of the people's
 
Null said:
Some abilities in bleach characters must small revised

Aizen Erasure Existence removal
In his profile page, it is shown that Aizen's Reiatsu is in third fusion through his statement "Cease to exist" which could make it possible to completely eliminate someone. but unfortunately it statement doesn't true and inconsistent, Now I would show some proof of the truth of Aizen's reiatsu through his actions, actually here his Reiatsu just turned Don Kanonji's property to be ashes, it doesn't really completely disappeared. beside that, the bottle which indicated has just turned to ashes also proves it more accurately. so for the statement "Cease to exist" could be inference only the Flowery word implies that the reiatsu makes the opponent disappear from existence, but not completely, since tho literally has been refuted with directly canon indication. so that would be changed to deconstruction with ashes stage.

Limited Conceptual Removal
In the profile page, Hitsugaya & Gerrard there CM3 inside, but thats not entirely true, since hoffnung itself which contains the hope of the people which mentioned in him page profil doesn't prove it as explicit something fundamentally as well as govern anything spesifically aspect as represent his concept, righteously doesn't meet the qualifying requirements on the concept manipulation page.

In fact furthermore, the effect of the hoffnung weapon isn't more than just being able to reflect attacks only, so these just get attack reflection abilities.

Empowerment for Gerrard
this is the right option solution to gave a decision for the miracle case, since it's stated that Gerrard's body would become stronger and his it body be gigantic since stimulated through the fear of the people's
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BRUUUUUUUH! This was already mentioned and countered!

 
Arc7Kuroi said:
No 🗿 that was covered here and I urge you to read through it all before coming to a hasty conclusion: https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleachs-greatest-fanfic.140945/
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Well, I've read it, however, from the proposed CRT goal is a reason headcanon for EE, this is clearly different from the goal I'm proposing at this time, while my goal is to downgrade Aizen's EE into Deconstruction.
Null said:
actually here his Reiatsu just turned Don Kanonji's property to be ashes, it doesn't really completely disappeared. beside that, the bottle which indicated has just turned to ashes also proves it more accurately. so for the statement "Cease to exist" could be inference only the Flowery word implies that the reiatsu makes the opponent disappear from existence, but not completely, since tho literally has been refuted with directly canon indication. so that would be changed to deconstruction with ashes stage.
Click to expand...
 
Null said:
Well, I've read it, however, from the proposed CRT goal is a reason headcanon for EE, this is clearly different from the goal I'm proposing at this time, while my goal is to downgrade Aizen's EE into Deconstruction.
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It's not headcanon goober. It's not turning the staff to ash either 🗿 that's just the visual effect of it in the middle of being EE'd. It isn't an inherent contradiction to Aizen's statement. Your assertment is what we call head canon.
 
Event which directly seen by someone > Statement

Should be note that cease to exist can also refer to something that eliminates the existance opponent but it is not really to eliminate it completely.
 
Null said:
Event which directly seen by someone > Statement

Should be note that cease to exist can also refer to something that eliminates the existance opponent but it is not really to eliminate it completely.
Click to expand...
No lmao. Tatsuki isn’t a reliable narrator end of discussion.
 
If that scan wasn't enough, I'll prove it visually, you could see it here, there are still small objects like ashes left after being elimated
 
Null said:
and there're no other explicit scans of evidence from according to what you say, beside cease to exist.
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It can be deduced from Aizen’s statement. It’s not contradicted at all either. You’re trying to force a contradictory interpretation based off of an unreliable narrator.
 
Like I said, Aizen's statement can refer to other things,
Null said:
Should be note that cease to exist can also refer to something that eliminates the existance opponent but it is not really to eliminate it completely.
Click to expand...
Also it's not something that is forced. since Tatsuki's eyes don't have problems When saw the incident
 
We have a direct statement that those who interact with Aizen's aura "ceased to exist", heavily implying Existence Erasure. You appeal to visuals which don't inherently prove your claim. Those objects being reduced to smaller particles, than becoming invisible to the naked eye doesn't necessarily prove Deconstruction only. If we're arguing that this is Existence Erasure, which reduces something beyond the naked eye inherently, than it being visual for a split second before that action occurs wouldn't be counter evidence against our claim. It's equal evidence with your interpretation.

Also, appealing to some random dude's statement about Aizen's own ability, with this dude not only being someone who has never interacted with the spiritual world until now, has zero clue on Aizen's capabilities, is a high-school student etc. His statement shouldn't trump the direct confirmation we get from Aizen. Ya'know, the guy who has this ability.

Your entire argument is just "I don't agree because It visually doesn't look like it to me and we have this random dude confirming my interpretation, thus it should hold higher weight compared to Aizen's own statement". I don't agree.
 
Deceived3596 said:
We have a direct statement that those who interact with Aizen's aura "ceased to exist", heavily implying Existence Erasure. You appeal to visuals which don't inherently prove your claim. Those objects being reduced to smaller particles, than becoming invisible to the naked eye doesn't necessarily prove Deconstruction only. If we're arguing that this is Existence Erasure, which reduces something beyond the naked eye inherently, than it being visual for a split second before that action occurs wouldn't be counter evidence against our claim. It's equal evidence with your interpretation.

Also, appealing to some random dude's statement about Aizen's own ability, with this dude not only being someone who has never interacted with the spiritual world until now, has zero clue on Aizen's capabilities, is a high-school student etc. His statement shouldn't trump the direct confirmation we get from Aizen. Ya'know, the guy who has this ability.

Your entire argument is just "I don't agree because It visually doesn't look like it to me and we have this random dude confirming my interpretation, thus it should hold higher weight compared to Aizen's own statement". I don't agree.
Click to expand...
FRA, I don’t think Null is going to bring anything new to the table so I’m going to stop responding to this thread unless some new information arises.
 
Deceived3596 said:
You appeal to visuals which don't inherently prove your claim. Those objects being reduced to smaller particles, than becoming invisible to the naked eye doesn't necessarily prove Deconstruction only. If we're arguing that this is Existence Erasure, which reduces something beyond the naked eye inherently, than it being visual for a split second before that action occurs wouldn't be counter evidence against our claim. It's equal evidence with your interpretation.
Click to expand...
You stated that these things were reduced to smallness particle, that means they haven't completely disappeared in terms of existence, unless there is a statement other than Aizen's.
Deceived3596 said:
Also, appealing to some random dude's statement about Aizen's own ability, with this dude not only being someone who has never interacted with the spiritual world until now, has zero clue on Aizen's capabilities, is a high-school student etc. His statement shouldn't trump the direct confirmation we get from Aizen. Ya'know, the guy who has this ability.
Click to expand...
Even though he is a high school student, it not be correlated, because the real evidence is shown factually according to one's subjective view, unless you have other evidence that there are other people who are more knowledgeable see Aizen's reiatsu erasing existence, and consider it a reliable option.
 
Null said:
You stated that these things were reduced to smallness particle, that means they haven't completely disappeared in terms of existence, unless there is a statement other than Aizen's.
Click to expand...
You misunderstood what I was saying, I didn't make the claim that these objects, are in-fact, being reduced to smaller particles and that's it. I was arguing under your interpretation that even if these objects were reduced to smaller particles, that it wouldn't necessarily prove those objects still exist in some capacity. It directly contradicts Aizen's own statement about those who interact with him cease to exist.

We can assume those objects were initially reduced to smaller particles for the sake of argument, sure. But it's possible through the destructive power of Aizen's Reiatsu, which previously caused solid material beings to be reduced into smaller scale particles. Caused those particles to cease existing. Thus making both statements coherent with each other, with zero contradictions happening under this interpretation. What's your contention with this proposal?

Null said:
Even though he is a high school student, it not be correlated, because the real evidence is shown factually according to one's subjective view, unless you have other evidence that there are other people who are more knowledgeable see Aizen's reiatsu erasing existence, and consider it a reliable option.
Click to expand...
It's not "factually shown" that this was purely just Deconstruction. You actively can't prove that claim because it's never stated anywhere. You're drawing inferences from that statement so it can fit your narrative. That's it.
 
Deceived3596 said:
You misunderstood what I was saying, I didn't make the claim that these objects, are in-fact, being reduced to smaller particles and that's it. I was arguing under your interpretation that even if these objects were reduced to smaller particles, that it wouldn't necessarily prove those objects still exist in some capacity. It directly contradicts Aizen's own statement about those who interact with him cease to exist.

We can assume those objects were initially reduced to smaller particles for the sake of argument, sure. But it's possible through the destructive power of Aizen's Reiatsu, which previously caused solid material beings to be reduced into smaller scale particles. Caused those particles to cease existing. Thus making both statements coherent with each other, with zero contradictions happening under this interpretation. What's your contention with this proposal?
Click to expand...
No, I don't see visually that Aizen reduced it to a cease to exist, although visually it disappears visibly from that existence, it doesn't necessarily disappear completely. I have to repeat this word many times, objects after the ashes are still smaller than it, like Quantum, Atom, etc. even though it's still not past the smaller than Quantum if you want to deal with objects more specifically tiny. you think aizen's reduction to cease to exist is an extreme extrapolation without being based on real evidence other than statements.
Deceived3596 said:
It's not "factually shown" that this was purely just Deconstruction. You actively can't prove that claim because it's never stated anywhere. You're drawing inferences from that statement so it can fit your narrative. That's it.
Click to expand...
As proven above, you coul see the scan I've provided, it still looks ashes visually.
 
Well, but that also needs proof it your claim that Tatsuki's statement is unreliable, this could be treated such as other people who're knowledgeable with proof like the case that Tatsuki experienced.
 
Do y'all just evaluate EE only? What about other points such as Conceptual Removal and Empowerment?
 
Null said:
is there any reliable evidence for that? i don't see that

Quite simply it was since he's saw the factual incident action directly, that was the fact that he's saw it
Click to expand...
an unreliable narrator like tatsuki and co can make all the statements they like, they can even say the objects simply transformed into damn animals

that would still not change the fact they remain unreliable which mean the statement they give has 0 weight when compared to the dude the ability belongs to and knows how it works.

aizen the reliable narrator on how his powers works state that it is EE, so it is EE, that it.
 
Null said:
Well, but that also needs proof it your claim that Tatsuki's statement is unreliable, this could be treated such as other people who're knowledgeable with proof like the case that Tatsuki experienced.
Click to expand...
we dont actually, tatsuki is disconnected from that side of the world, she has no idea who aizen is or his abilities, she is an unreliable narrator, all of them are. aizen the owner of the damn ability is a reliable narrator.
 
Gerard Sword powers comes from Hope. Toshiro stops the power of hope itself not just sword. Hope is a abstract concept which should atleast qualify for type 3. Unless you definite what TF is hope here and prove it doesn't comes under a concept of its own.

I disagree with removal of CM type 3.
 
It seems you don't really understand what the lesser concept is, that's not how it works

Hope is not an abstract concept, if it is not coupled with the spesifically aspect being governed, then what is being governed by hope? where did that come from, this could lead to something flowery word, I would await the decision of the staff for those with knowledge of conceptual abilities for evaluating these
 
Null said:
It seems you don't really understand what the lesser concept is, that's not how it works

Hope is not an abstract concept, if it is not coupled with the spesifically aspect being governed, then what is being governed by hope? where did that come from, this could lead to something flowery word, I would await the decision of the staff for those with knowledge of conceptual abilities for evaluating these
Click to expand...
That sword is governed by hope if you don't understand what written in the scans. That's why Toshiro directly stops the hope itself not the sword function alone. Check the scans again.

His sword is dependent on Hope that's enough to consider hope as a concept here for governing that sword.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
That sword is governed by hope
Click to expand...
The word “gorvened” that you mention doesn't exist in the manga at all, it's headcanon, You could saw for it. Hoffnung doesn't depending on hope, but contains human hope, where humans hope that the sword will become stronger, that's terms empowerment.
 
Null said:
that's blantant stated in his chapter, he's said property turned into ashes, what i said it doesn't headcanon. since with supporting proof.
Click to expand...
Yeah the fact that it's directly commented on as being turned into ashes tells me it definitely isn't a visual effect. So I would agree.
I don't believe this is a matter of "who knows Aizen's ability better" or trusting one character versus another, I think the two statements aren't at odds. Most authors don't think in the very nuanced way that is done here, so "cease to exist" is a perfectly reasonable description for an ability that turns something into ash.
 
I will just note that a character saying "ceased to exist" isn't completely rock solid proof of existence erasure in the sense that the matter was truly reduced to nothingness. The bottle could be said to "no longer exist" even if it was just reduced to ash particles or atoms, etc.

Aizen's statement to me, is just as legit for just Deconstruction as it is for Existence Erasure.

EDIT: Wow, I was already typing my comment when you pinged me. How's that for timing,
 
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