Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel)

[Purgy]

Yeah, it seems like people are only agreeing with it to speed the thread along, but there's no rush.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

So yea it can be safely asume that most if not all the ones that agree just did it to move on and not get stuck

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; the problem is the circular scaling chains, and the backwards scaling. Ignoring the backwards scaling for a moment, let's look at the circular chains.

Let's examine the scaling chain.

Omaeda -> BG9 -> Sui-Feng -> Nanao & Omaeda

This is the first case of circular scaling (arrows don't indicate superiority, just the connection). As for the other:

Nanao -> Shunsui -> Lille -> ??? & Shunsui

The second scaling chain is dependent on scaling Lille to nobody specific or Shunsui, who recieves his scaling from Lille or from Omaeda / Nanao which again is circular.

 

[Omimi]

Uh can I ask why Merged hollow Ichigo is 500 zettatons?

Ichigo made Soul King Yhwach bleed with Gran Rey Cero and SKY scales from Mimihagi's feat.

Gran Rey Cero bypass dura so he should not scale.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

For starters there is no issue with backwards scaling, go ask the dozens of series that do it. You keep acting as if there is some sort of massive gap or training in between when both arcs are a best a month apart with the cast going through a huge training arc already in the fullbring arc.

And again this scaling isn't circular.

Omaeda -> BG9 -> Sui-Feng -> Nanao & Omaeda

Speed: FTL (Is fast enough to retrieve Suì-Fēng from BG9 and move to a further area despite him focusing his attention on her and can sense people with accurate descriptions. His attack was able to hit BG9)

So he's fast enough to move past BG9 and hit him.

Speed: FTL (Able to catch Suì-Fēng by surprise)

BG9 can keep up with Soi Fon.

Speed: FTL (Is one of the greatest Shunpo practitioners in the Gotei 13. Superior to Nanao and Omaeda)

Soi Fon is above Nanao and BG9.

Nanao -> Shunsui -> Lille -> ??? & Shunsui

Speed: FTL (Kept up with Shunsui, was also complemented by him to have improved)

Nanao can keep up with Shunsui now, and he compliments her.

Speed: FTL (Kept up with Lille, superior to Nanao and Omaeda)

He can keep up with Lille and is obviously superior to his subordinate.

FTL (Should be above the lower tier Sternritter)

Lille scales above the lower tier sternritter which makes him FTL, this could legit be any of the other sternritter like Full Power Mask. He can keep up with Royal Guard too post ressurection.

Where is the circular scaling?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Gran Rey Cero bypass dura so he should not scale.

Thankfully it doesn't bypass durability and is only an enviormental effect lol. Just like Might Guy bending space doesn't bypass durability.

Also it's Getsuga and Cero together.

 

[Naeblis495]

Yhwach , by his own admission , say that true shikai + horn of salvation doesn't allow him any rooms for mistakes and force him to use Almighty when it wasn't necessary before .

True shikai + HoS does scale from that statement no matter what .

Also , i don't think the GRC is accepted as being dura negg .

 

[Purgy]

Wasn't there a thread where it was rejected? But now that it might make Ichigo not scale to Yhwach people are fine with it? omegalul.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

GRC doesnt need "durability negation" specifically listed on Ichigo's page because spatial manipulation in general bypasses durability. At least thats what ive been told several times on the subject.

And to be fair, since when does hax being environmental destruction stop the hax from doing it's thing?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This isn't for real right?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

GRC wasn't accepted as bypassing durability in the past.

 

[Naeblis495]

the justification of BG9 being FTL should be for being comparable to Masculine and other sternritter.

Would that solve anything ?

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; you seem to be doing a great job at turning a blind eye towards circular scaling.

In your own post you write Sui-Feng > Omaeda and Nanao, while also posting that Omaeda gets his own rating by scaling to BG9 who scales to Sui-Feng.

That's a pretty basic example of circular scaling.

As for Lille, there isn't any proof of him scaling in speed to Full Power Mask.

@Naeblis495; no, because there isn't any evidence of him being comparable to Full Power Mask either. At best you'd be scaling him to base Mask who is MHS+.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

GRC doesnt need "durability negation" specifically listed on Ichigo's page because spatial manipulation in general bypasses durability. At least thats what ive been told several times on the subject.
And to be fair, since when does hax being environmental destruction stop the hax from doing it's thing?

This is very ironic because on the crt you kudos Ant.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This is very ironic because on the crt you kudos Ant.

Or that thread occured before it was made aware to me that spatial manip grants dura negging.

And I can personally gurantee this since ive requested giving characters dura negging through spatial manipulation before and was told there's no need to because of that.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Damage

Lille is the leader of the elite group of quincy called Schutzstaffel. Are you saying he is inferior to other common sternritter who Yhwach doesn't even care about? I honestly don't understand your logic like at all.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Or that thread occured before it was made aware to me that spatial manip grants dura negging.

And I can personally gurantee this since ive requested giving characters dura negging through spatial manipulation before and was told there's no need to because of that.

I don't really care about this, if you have an issue with it not being durability negation take it elsewhere.

 

[Sekkonds.]

Lille can also keep up with the royal guard,it's all written in the OP

 

[Purgy]

There is legitimately zero reason as to why Mask would ever come close to Lille in anything, as was said he's just a fodder Sternritter that Yhwach sacrifices on a whim, Lille is an Elite, but more than that he's the leader of the Elites.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I don't really care about this, if you have an issue with it not being durability negation take it elsewhere.

Funny. You try calling me out on this and when I give a response you fall back on "I dont care".

But kay.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

No I called you out because you backtracked, you don't seem to agree so I told you to make another thread about it since it seems you don't agree anymore. And I said idc because it doesn't affect the scaling between Ichigo and Yhwach.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Sure. Anyway, back to your speed discussion.

 

[Red-Eyed_Specter]

Ichigo's Gran Ray Getsuga doesn't ignore durability, and not all forms of spatial manipulation ignores durability, especially minor forms of it.

 

[AstralKing7]

I disagree with a middle ground since that's a compromise, it means you bended the rules of the verse to be something the two of you could agree on.

I would rather go with what actually makes sense in the scaling of the verse.

To be blunt MFTL+ bleach doesn't make any sense.

The verse doesn't even portray itself as that fast.

 

[Naeblis495]

GRC bypassing durability isn't accepted and isn't on the profiles .

Yhwach himself say that ichigo scale .

Can we drop the issue now ?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The MHS+ rating is for lieutenants such as Ikkaku and Renji pre training who have nothing to suggest they'd scale.

Massively Hypersonic+ (Even faster than before after training during the 17 month timeskip, comparable to Hisagi) <-- Renji

Damage is suggesting Lille the leader of the Schutzstaffel is the equivalent in speed to lieutenants such as Hisagi and Renji.

 

[Purgy]

I disagree with a middle ground since that's a compromise, it means you bended the rules of the verse to be something the two of you could agree on.

I would rather go with what actually makes sense in the scaling of the verse.

To be blunt MFTL+ bleach doesn't make any sense.

The verse doesn't even portray itself as that fast.

This isn't an argument, it's also completely subjective and can be said about any number of verses. Lastly, the feats and scaling speak for themselves.

 

[Red-Eyed_Specter]

Oh look, Astral making comments that don't contribute anything. The argument of "hey this verse doesn't look dat fast!!!" doesn't work, so you should drop it and argue like a normal user. Use actual arguments or don't argue at all.

 

[Purgy]

That was a pretty poor argument, I try to stay neutral when people make arguments in threads, but like that argument was never going to achieve anything.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sekkonds; the Royal Guards who also get their scaling mostly from Omaeda and Nanao.

@Sigurd; I'd understand your logic a lot more if you had proof to back it up rather than just expressing your disbelief that there are issues with the scaling.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Sekkonds; the Royal Guards who also get their scaling mostly from Omaeda and Nanao.
@Sigurd; I'd understand your logic a lot more if you had proof to back it up rather than just expressing your disbelief that there are issues with the scaling.

Wrong.

1. They scale above anyone in Soul Society, they're the most powerful Shinigami outside of obvious people like Kenpachi. Or do you disagree with this as well?

2. You're the one with the fallacious arguments, i've explained my stance clearly and logically. And I did post evidence, it's right there in the manga. I advise you too read the blood war again because I think you don't remember it very well.

At no point in time is Nanao suggested to be above anyone in speed, she is simply fast enough to keep up now with Shunsui.

You wish to scale people with hard outright feats you can see simply with your eyes without a single doubt.

Edit - Here is afeat right here of Tenjiro outright blitzing Soi Fon.

 

[Naeblis495]

I can understand omaeda being a problem , but why is nanao being one ?

She scale from keeping up with shunsui and second vollstanding lille, who should easily be comparable to shikai renji who performed to FTL feat . Nanao's isn't faster than them , but she is fast enough to not be overwhelmed by shunsui's and lille's speed.

And considering nanao's lack of martial training ,a lot of characther should be superior to her in almost everyway .

 

[USklaverei]

To be blunt MFTL+ bleach doesn't make any sense.

The verse doesn't even portray itself as that fast.

You can refute this, just as I refuted the Black Clover MFTL

 

[Omimi]

also u guys cant use 5x Bankai multiplier for speed

since the crt for multiplier u link only says that

Bankai increase zanpakuto combat ability 5 to 10 times greater


it does indicate increase of AP

but not speed

 

[Damage3245]

> You're the one with the fallacious arguments, i've explained my stance clearly and logically. And I did post evidence, it's right there in the manga. I advise you too read the blood war again because I think you don't remember it very well.

This is hilarious. I could say the exact same thing back to you.

@Naeblis495; the issue is a lack of evidence and awful lot of conjecture and speculation I see being used.

Having actually reread the fight between Shunsui and Nanao against Lille, I don't see any evidence that Nanao actually scales to either of them in speed at all.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Tenjiro > Sui-Feng - Tenjiro blitzed her.

Ichibei > Tenjiro - It's stated in 13 Blades that Ichibei is above Tenjiro even.

 

[USklaverei]

also u guys cant use 5x Bankai multiplier for speed since the crt for multiplier u link only says that

Bankai increase zanpakuto combat ability 5 to 10 times greater


it does indicate increase of AP

but not speed

Why the hell are you going back to this subject when all this has already been addressed? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

 

[Naeblis495]

So you're just gonna ignore that only a select few actually have their speed affected by the multipliers ?

i suggest that you actually read the OP and you'll see that only those that showcased an increase in speed with their techniques have their speed increased by multiplier.

Not everyone that have a bankai have their speed boosted by multiplier...

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

desperation...

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

also u guys cant use 5x Bankai multiplier for speed since the crt for multiplier u link only says that

Bankai increase zanpakuto combat ability 5 to 10 times greater


it does indicate increase of AP

but not speed

The CRT for Bankai multipliers was an accepted multiplier of AP, Durability, and Speed for specific characters.

You can go back and check out the discussion.

We've already gone over two revision threads of the past arcs that are using the accepted multiplier.