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Bleach Revisions: Continuation
- Thread starter Soldier_Blue
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Half of these have been implemented, the other half has been debunked even though admitedly I havent followed this thread intimately.Dr.Fix said:
Also
". Change with imput is the goal, not the enemy. If you don't want to be part of the sollution then at least don't try and derail it. If you disagrre then please feel free to cite why."
He already stated it was already discussed, if the majority of people dont think renji scales, then he doesnt scale.
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Also, the idea of Renji having higher ap then his senior officer is laughably bad scaling (although that is bleach scaling what you going to do)
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Wait a minute, wouldn't Kensei and Rose Scale to Toshirous Island Level feat by virtue of being Captain Class?
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Ok, so, if Kensei and Rose are "Possibly Island+", Wouldn't that make Mask "Possibly At Least Island+"?
Or Does Mask Scale from something else?
I know people Scale Renji from Bazz, but but was Bazz drawing Blood from Hashbrowns discussed?
Or Does Mask Scale from something else?
I know people Scale Renji from Bazz, but but was Bazz drawing Blood from Hashbrowns discussed?
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@Amlad22
It seemed to me like there was just a skill difference. Not that Bazz couldn't hurt Hashwalth.
It seemed to me like there was just a skill difference. Not that Bazz couldn't hurt Hashwalth.
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@Kinkiest Sin: you may think its laughable but it is fact. Re-read the many chapters that clealry scale a massive diference if you like. Also, I already said it was not discussed.
@Final Order: Mask Destroyed them easily. Giving him the same rating as them as a considerable underestimation and by extention for Renji as well. Bazzb never got a proper fight so people have scaled him from low to high tier over the last few years.
@Final Order: Mask Destroyed them easily. Giving him the same rating as them as a considerable underestimation and by extention for Renji as well. Bazzb never got a proper fight so people have scaled him from low to high tier over the last few years.
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@TheFinalOrder There must have still been a sizeable power gap though, since Jugram was capable of slicing through Bazz's strongest attacks casually.
I say casually since in the light novel it was stated that Jugram was saving a bunch of Quincy's lives or something like that. So Quincy like BG9, Cang Du and Bazz all likely survived because Jugram wasn't actually trying to kill them.
I say casually since in the light novel it was stated that Jugram was saving a bunch of Quincy's lives or something like that. So Quincy like BG9, Cang Du and Bazz all likely survived because Jugram wasn't actually trying to kill them.
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@Amlad22
Bazz was still able to bypass his Natural reiatsu defense and harm him. Not sure if Hashwalth used Blut, but, if we're going by Context, Bazz-B was in no way ever unable to harm him. He just couldn't compete skill wise.
Bazz was still able to bypass his Natural reiatsu defense and harm him. Not sure if Hashwalth used Blut, but, if we're going by Context, Bazz-B was in no way ever unable to harm him. He just couldn't compete skill wise.
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If Bazz-B was ignoring durability against Jugo than that means Bazz shouldn't scale.
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@SKN
Huh?
Huh?
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If Bazz-B's attacks bypass durability than Jugo's durabilty doesn't matter and there's no reason BB's AP should scale to Jugo's durabilty..
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What the hell is this? Bazz-B does not scale to freaking Jugram. The dude got Auswählened so the fact that he could "hurt" Jugram is honestly PIS (not to mention it's also an outlier). Also, Jugram did not want to kill his friend.
The Visoreds are not going to be Island level+. Starrk wasn't serious and had no will to fight. The Visoreds, despite surviving the wolves, didn't do anything to Starrk even with their Hollow Masks and he would have finished them off if not for Shunsui. Love even thanked Shunsui implying he would have got rekt.
Shinji slashing Aizen would be another case of PIS. He got trashed by Tōsen who is so beneath Aizen.
The Visoreds are not going to be Island level+. Starrk wasn't serious and had no will to fight. The Visoreds, despite surviving the wolves, didn't do anything to Starrk even with their Hollow Masks and he would have finished them off if not for Shunsui. Love even thanked Shunsui implying he would have got rekt.
Shinji slashing Aizen would be another case of PIS. He got trashed by Tōsen who is so beneath Aizen.
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Did shinji even slash Aizen? Iirc those wounds disappeared after Aizen showed himself using KS to counter sakanade
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- Thread starter
- #219
Even if he really did, I think we can all agree that putting a small scratch on Aizen isn't enough to warrant a 6-C rating for Shinji.
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- Thread starter
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Yeah, the Captain Visored should scale to High 7-C in base and Shikai and likely 7-A with Hollow mask. It was already agreed. Their profiles just haven't been changed yet.
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Using PIS is a pretty weak defense; in fact with the exception of a few moments in the series its no defense at all. I've always thought the same as @LordAizen in that being an illusion when Shinji "cut Aizen". TBH this along with the Bazz VS Jugo scenario traces back to a need to define matters of "tanking" and such since there are many different degrees of characters being damaged in this series.
Also regarding Starrk he wasn't using his full power before Lilynette's pep talk. After which he brough out the wolves, so its true he wasn't trying before but incorrect to say he wasn't trying after. Which brings me to the masks. Two tiers is way too much of a boost. Unless someone canprovide actionable evidence those things got blow off after the first of many hits they took. They do not even raise defense at all to be honest:
Shikai Love=Island level (scaling to Starrk), Shikai+Mask=At least Island level if you want o argue AP but not durability.
That still doesn't count for bankai though. The alternative if that is too high is to scale back Starrk to Moutain Level.
EDIT: On that note I went back to do some digging. It looks like Starrk is scaled to Island leveled to scale to shunsui, who in turn is scaled to Toshiro. Two mistakes here:
1: Shunsui said he was more poweful than Toshiro at full power (Bankai). He makes no such reference to his shikai, which is what he used and what Starrk and others scale to.
2. That was FKKT Toshiro. If I'm correct the Island level feat is what happened in Royal Realm after he was infused with hollow reiatsu, quincy reiatsu, and whatever Mayuri did. This Toshiro shouldn't be confused with his former self for the same reason as scaling Byakuya or Renji to their former selfs.
So to sum up, Bankai Shunsui scales higher to whatever Toshiro was in FKKT (Probably much much higher). Shikai Shunsui scales a bit below Starrk who scales roughly to Love, Baraagan, Harri, etc.
Also regarding Starrk he wasn't using his full power before Lilynette's pep talk. After which he brough out the wolves, so its true he wasn't trying before but incorrect to say he wasn't trying after. Which brings me to the masks. Two tiers is way too much of a boost. Unless someone canprovide actionable evidence those things got blow off after the first of many hits they took. They do not even raise defense at all to be honest:
Shikai Love=Island level (scaling to Starrk), Shikai+Mask=At least Island level if you want o argue AP but not durability.
That still doesn't count for bankai though. The alternative if that is too high is to scale back Starrk to Moutain Level.
EDIT: On that note I went back to do some digging. It looks like Starrk is scaled to Island leveled to scale to shunsui, who in turn is scaled to Toshiro. Two mistakes here:
1: Shunsui said he was more poweful than Toshiro at full power (Bankai). He makes no such reference to his shikai, which is what he used and what Starrk and others scale to.
2. That was FKKT Toshiro. If I'm correct the Island level feat is what happened in Royal Realm after he was infused with hollow reiatsu, quincy reiatsu, and whatever Mayuri did. This Toshiro shouldn't be confused with his former self for the same reason as scaling Byakuya or Renji to their former selfs.
So to sum up, Bankai Shunsui scales higher to whatever Toshiro was in FKKT (Probably much much higher). Shikai Shunsui scales a bit below Starrk who scales roughly to Love, Baraagan, Harri, etc.
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Question about Ichigo's power scaling.
Shouldn't they be stronger than Dangai Mountain feat?
- Vasto Lorde Ichigo sword swings destroy big rocks.
- Dangai Ichigo sword swing destroy Small Mountains.
- FullBring Enhanced Shikai Ichigo sword swings were as powerful as Getsuga Tensho.
Shouldn't they be stronger than Dangai Mountain feat?
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Dangai's "mountain" isn't impressive anymore. Ichigo has better feats.
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Okay. So a few issues I have regarding Wonderwiess and the Visoreds.
Wonderweiss was able to one-shot Ukitake who is 6-C. Mashiro was able to with her Hollow Mask hurt him I guess? Kensei presumably forced him to release since the next time we see him he is in his released state.
So that'll make most of them 6-C with Hollow Mask besides, Hiyro, Lisa, and Hachigen since they don't really have feats putting that high and technically they are still Lieutenant level. Mashiro is a different case since she can supposedly hold her mask for 15 hours.
Also Ichigo with his Hollow Mask was able to damage Aizen.
Thoughts on this before I continue with the edits?
Wonderweiss was able to one-shot Ukitake who is 6-C. Mashiro was able to with her Hollow Mask hurt him I guess? Kensei presumably forced him to release since the next time we see him he is in his released state.
So that'll make most of them 6-C with Hollow Mask besides, Hiyro, Lisa, and Hachigen since they don't really have feats putting that high and technically they are still Lieutenant level. Mashiro is a different case since she can supposedly hold her mask for 15 hours.
Also Ichigo with his Hollow Mask was able to damage Aizen.
Thoughts on this before I continue with the edits?
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I dont think Wonderweiss was hurt by mashiro though?
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Wonderweiss got stomped on (literally and figuratively) by mashiro (hollowfied) then by kensei (Base). He later got demolished by Base yamamoto.
As for wins he one-shot Ukitake.
There fore Kensei>Mashiro>Wonderweiss>Jushiro
And before anyoen brings up hat Jushiro scales to Shunsui BS remember he is nver actually stated to be his equal physically. That his only on panel fights were shit, that Yamamoto himself described him as "fragile", and so fourth.
Granted he tossed around Lilynette, but she wasn't even Gilian level which I think is Building level around here. For the sake of not scaling everyone to Island level and higher and not omiting feats in favour some retire BS please just scale Jushiro way way WAY lower.
P:S if anyone is still doubting that Jushiro is fodder remember:
His "fight" with yamamoto was off panel. Yamamoto proved conclusively his vast superiority over the guy that destroyed Jushiro. I laughed my head off when his (Jushiro) old page said "tanked punches from yamamoto".
Yamamoto's statement about them shouldn't be taken literally to PL. Specifically if you take his power as "beyond all that came before and after you" that includes Aizen, Ichibei, and yamamoto himself to name a few who would all be under Wondeerweiss as well.
As for wins he one-shot Ukitake.
There fore Kensei>Mashiro>Wonderweiss>Jushiro
And before anyoen brings up hat Jushiro scales to Shunsui BS remember he is nver actually stated to be his equal physically. That his only on panel fights were shit, that Yamamoto himself described him as "fragile", and so fourth.
Granted he tossed around Lilynette, but she wasn't even Gilian level which I think is Building level around here. For the sake of not scaling everyone to Island level and higher and not omiting feats in favour some retire BS please just scale Jushiro way way WAY lower.
P:S if anyone is still doubting that Jushiro is fodder remember:
His "fight" with yamamoto was off panel. Yamamoto proved conclusively his vast superiority over the guy that destroyed Jushiro. I laughed my head off when his (Jushiro) old page said "tanked punches from yamamoto".
Yamamoto's statement about them shouldn't be taken literally to PL. Specifically if you take his power as "beyond all that came before and after you" that includes Aizen, Ichibei, and yamamoto himself to name a few who would all be under Wondeerweiss as well.
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He didn't get stomped. He was just thrown around by them. He actually was able to tank some shots from Yamamoto.
We should most likely downgrade Ukitake but I would like Soldier's opinion on it first.
Edit: And calling Ukitake fodder is hilariously wrong. They needed Ukitake's massive reiatsu to power up the door to travel to the Soul Palace.
We should most likely downgrade Ukitake but I would like Soldier's opinion on it first.
Edit: And calling Ukitake fodder is hilariously wrong. They needed Ukitake's massive reiatsu to power up the door to travel to the Soul Palace.
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