Bleach revision for 5-B characters

[MangaxAnimeLover]

As far for hueco mundo It was only stated to be an endless desert between SS and HW.

But as far we know HW and SS are same size they are the flipcoin.

 

[AppleLord]

"There's no canon evidence that he can let go of the balance of souls willingly."
Why wouldn't he be able to? He clearly was able to regulate the balance of souls willingly since the worlds stopped collapsing once he absorbed the Soul King. Why wouldn't he have control over whether he could balance the souls or not?

Also; being able to counterract the collapse of worlds - as a corpse or not - doesn't mean he has the power to destroy the three worlds. It just means he has enough power to offset the imbalance in the flow of souls.

Why are you asking something I debunked above.

 

[Damage3245]

yeah, and we can see from the Soul King that an unguarded Soul King-level being can be cut down by much weaker people.

Agreed. Even with the whole Reiatsu = defense and AP (which is questionable since that only applies when you levels of Reiatsu much higher than your opponent), Yhwach wasn't defending himself when Ichigo attacked him.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Endless desert is an obvious hyperbole. Soul Society isn't the same size going by the evidence. It's actually smaller given how crowded it is and how small the districts are.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Apple

You didn't debunk it. this is why people talk about it.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

Ichigo does not scale to him I agree with that.He stood no chance with his physical strength.He was caught off guard first time just like Gin caught off guard Aizen, it doesn't mean Gin was on Aizen's level because he pierced him.Second time Yhwach was powerless.So yeah new Bankai Ichigo shouldn't be more than 5-C via highball.

 

[Damage3245]

Anyway, it seems most people in this thread are in agreement with Matthew; is this right?

What ratings are more appropriate for Ichigo and Aizen based on this?

 

[BMWFanboy]

Yhwach could keep the worlds stable, why would he not be able to disrupt the same balance he can keep stable? There is also context for that, in the same chapter Yhwach absorbs the Soul Kings power, which is the black substance

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Going by the outdated calc Yhwach would be High 6-A and they would scale to that post Time-Skip.

but we need to see if it still holds up. CALL DA KEP

 

[TataHakai]

Country level, Likely Higher

Yhwach's rating should be whatever the Warhlwelt calc was, which if i remember correctly was Continental.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

Endless desert is an obvious hyperbole. Soul Society isn't the same size going by the evidence. It's actually smaller given how crowded it is and how small the districts are.

There should be same amount of people in SS as there is in HM and Material World, that's purely about balance of souls.Plus I don't have a scan but it was stated how reishi is more dense than particles in material world.And even if you argue that Memories Of Nobody is not canon you can't argue that screenshots of SS=material worlds aren't since Tite Kubo was nimator of the movie, it was his intention to show that the size of Soul Society is same as size of the earth.

 

[Dark649]

Why is Post-Dangai Ichigo just 6-B. At least 6-B with Final Getsuga when Monster Aize is at least 6-B, likely higher?. This should be fixed, also True Shikai ichigo scales to Mugetsu Ichigo.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Galiel

The entire population of Earth could fit inside a country. Same amount of people isn't evidence enough.

The movie is non-canon, next?

 

[AppleLord]

Because:

• There's no canon evidence that he can let go of the balance of souls willingly.

• It was only shown to happen when a Soul King dies. Even after his death, Yhwach's corpse was keeping the worlds together. Don't you think that he would have let go and let everyone die by now if he could willingly do it?

• Yhwach went to Soul Society which is in another dimension to physically destroy it with his reiatsu. If he could do it with the balance of souls he would have done it from the palace in the other dimension since that's what happens when the other Soul King died in the first place.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

People are assuming "Destruction" automatically means planet bust, whereas statements from arc 1 back up the fact that Yhwach was attempting to destroy worlds by disrupting the flow of souls to make them collapse into one another.
This has literally been stated again, and again and again.

I mean with the logic behind this every Shinigami is now capable of Planetary output because they can all disrupt the flow of souls.

If this is a game of who can repost the most, @Apple.

You posted your argument already. let's not devolve this into a spam thread.

 

[BMWFanboy]

Also, the power that's busting through the surface of the Earth is the Soul King's power, as it is clearly seento be the same as the one he absorbed.

 

[M11UTD]

the world was already how Yhwach wanted it to be before at some unknown point in time. The Soul King was what separated it into what it is now. So Soul King is the one who made the world in the stable form we know in the first place. Hes not just a lynchpin balancing things far above its own weight, he is the power which created this balance to begin with, So yes, Yhwach was gonna collapse the dimensions by disrupting their balance originally, then he absorbed the Soul King's power. Soul King being the power which gave the dimensions the current form they have, hence why his removal would destabilize them. http://www.*************/manga/bleach/v58/c686/18.html

if the previous scan is not enough right as it speaks in future tense right? Future tense seeing as it was Yhwach's objective.

But why does he make emphasys on it being destined and such for the world to have such form? Easy, because that was its original form. Yhwach mentions this little fact here, in which he clarifies the Soul King was "created" to give the current forms to their dimensions and that without him thus they would lose their forms. http://www.*************/manga/bleach/v58/c615/17.html

So, everything that happens due to the Soul King's absence, happened vice-versa due to the Soul King's creation. Dimensions destabilizing into a chaotic mess, worlds being destroyed and yada yada? Yep, thank the Soul King's existence they even have the form they have now.

 

[Damage3245]

• It was only shown to happen when a Soul King dies. Even after his death, Yhwach's corpse was keeping the worlds together. Don't you think that he would have let go and let everyone die by now if he could willingly do it?

How does a corpse willingly let go of anything?

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

@Galiel
The entire population of Earth could fit inside a country. Same amount of people isn't evidence enough.

The movie is non-canon, next?

Soul Society is not completely populated, we have seen that multiple times...canon or not it was animated by Kubo and events from it mentioned later in canon material.Kubo animated it, and there are a few scenes in which SS is same size as earth.I highly doubt that Kubo made SS big as earth for non canon movie while he intended it to stay smaller in the manga, since the fact that he mentioned events from that movie contradicts that.

 

[M11UTD]

the world was already how Yhwach wanted it to be before at some unknown ^ ^^^beginning of my last reply if some can't see it.... point in time. The Soul King was what separated it into what it is now. So Soul King is the one who made the world in the stable form we know in the first place. Hes not just a lynchpin balancing things far above its own weight, he is the power which created this balance to begin with, So yes, Yhwach was gonna collapse the dimensions by disrupting their balance originally, then he absorbed the Soul King's power. Soul King being the power which gave the dimensions the current form they have, hence why his removal would destabilize them. http://www.*************/manga/bleach/v58/c686/18.html

 

[AppleLord]

People are assuming "Destruction" automatically means planet bust, whereas statements from arc 1 back up the fact that Yhwach was attempting to destroy worlds by disrupting the flow of souls to make them collapse into one another.
This has literally been stated again, and again and again.

I mean with the logic behind this every Shinigami is now capable of Planetary output because they can all disrupt the flow of souls.

If this is a game of who can repost the most, @Apple.
You posted your argument already. let's not devolve this into a spam thread.

That has nothing to do with Yhwach. Is about the Quincy erasin souls from existence with their own arrows. My point still stands.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I also agree with Matt here.

 

[Dark649]

Why is Post-Dangai Ichigo just 6-B. At least 6-B with Final Getsuga when Monster Aize is at least 6-B, likely higher?. This should be fixed, also True Shikai ichigo scales to Mugetsu Ichigo.

Bumping this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

no it doesn't. Collapsing / merging the worlds has nothing to do with power. You are insisting that Yhwach does it differently from the Quincy when he is a Quincy.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I would like to remind people not to quote walls of text. Some of us have shit internet.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I have a shit life as well.

 

[Theglassman12]

I agree with the downgrade for the 5-B characters via Matt's reasons.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

@Dark649 Sorry about that but as you can see this thread is going to be purely about the whole Yhwach bs. My suggestion would be to make a separate thread so we can finalise the scaling and stuff.

 

[Damage3245]

Why is Post-Dangai Ichigo just 6-B. At least 6-B with Final Getsuga when Monster Aize is at least 6-B, likely higher?. This should be fixed, also True Shikai ichigo scales to Mugetsu Ichigo.

Final Getsuga Ichigo didn't have enough power to fully destroy Aizen's body at that point so he can't be massively above Aizen.

 

[AppleLord]

• It was only shown to happen when a Soul King dies. Even after his death, Yhwach's corpse was keeping the worlds together. Don't you think that he would have let go and let everyone die by now if he could willingly do it?

How does a corpse willingly let go of anything?

The same way it gave Ichibei the power to name everything in SS, made the Zero Squad bones into Oken and Tenshiro knows that the Soul King took a liking to Ichigo. Same way Yhwach's reiatsu try to kill Ichigo's son. If he was consciously holding them, they would have collapsed on his death.

 

[Damage3245]

The same way it gave Ichibei the power to name everything in SS, made the Zero Squad bones into Oken and Tenshiro knows that the Soul King took a liking to Ichigo. Same way Yhwach's reiatsu try to kill Ichigo's son. If he was consciously holding them, they would have collapsed on his death.

Since when was the Soul King a corpse? If he was always dead, how did Ichigo kill him?

 

[AppleLord]

no it doesn't. Collapsing / merging the worlds has nothing to do with power. You are insisting that Yhwach does it differently from the Quincy when he is a Quincy.

Soul erasure only works on Hollows. Yhwach isn't erasing a hollow but the worlds. You got debunked by your own claims.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

@Damage3245 Lol. Not only did Ichigo obliterate Aizen but the difference between the two is astronomically huge.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So far:

Damage 3245, Theglassman12, Ultima Reality, The Everlasting, Shadowbokunohero, Dragonmasterxyz, BMWFanboy, Dark649, Gargoyle One, TataHakai, ALRF, Soldier Blue, Trexalfa and RebubleUselet and all agree with me.

I also know that WeeklyBattles is against it as well but he hasn't commented.

 

[AppleLord]

The same way it gave Ichibei the power to name everything in SS, made the Zero Squad bones into Oken and Tenshiro knows that the Soul King took a liking to Ichigo. Same way Yhwach's reiatsu try to kill Ichigo's son. If he was consciously holding them, they would have collapsed on his death.

Since when was the Soul King a corpse? If he was always dead, how did Ichigo kill him?

Same thing I asked on the previous thread againts Mattews claims.

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage3245 Lol. Not only did Ichigo obliterate Aizen but the difference between the two is astronomically huge.

That doesn't really change anything... Ichigo stands in a higher 'dimension' of power above Aizen but they can still harm each other. Aizen gave Ichigo injuries despite the power difference, and Isshin was able to hurt cocoon Aizen.

The difference in terms of AP and durability can't be that astronomically huge.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

So far:
Damage 3245, Theglassman12, Ultima Reality, The Everlasting, Shadowbokunohero, Dragonmasterxyz, BMWFanboy, Dark649, Gargoyle One, TataHakai agree with me.

Me as well. I may not have commented much but I've been following closely. I'm leaning more against 5-B than for. I would like to see a 5-B Yhwach and of course, Ichigo and Aizen. But I'm seeing more evidence against it than in favour.

 

[TataHakai]

no it doesn't. Collapsing / merging the worlds has nothing to do with power. You are insisting that Yhwach does it differently from the Quincy when he is a Quincy.

Soul erasure only works on Hollows. Yhwach isn't erasing a hollow but the worlds. You got debunked by your own claims.

Soul erasure disrupts the flow of souls, which is essentially what Yhwach was going to do. It's just Yhwach could do it a larger scale since he absorbed the SK

 

[BMWFanboy]

So far:

Damage 3245, Theglassman12, Ultima Reality, The Everlasting, Shadowbokunohero, Dragonmasterxyz, BMWFanboy, Dark649, Gargoyle One, TataHakai agree with me.

Wow lol

 

[Golden_Void]

You can kill a zombie, lol.