Bleach Revision Cont'd

[Soldier_Blue]

Why are we discussing who scales from what again? That has given us enough headaches already in just the past two months.

Look, let me simplify it:

Those who were put at 6-C (Island level+) will go back down to 7-B or 7-A (City level+ or Large City level) depending on how the Tensou Jurin evaluation turns out and via scaling from post time skip Hitsugaya's city fall stopping feat (which was also City level+ per a calc from Gwyn).

Literally everyone at High 6-A will go back down to what they were previously (6-B).

Who scales shouldn't be up for discussion. We're only changing some stats here.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

^^^^

 

[Damage3245]

My point of including them at all was the fact that they don't scale to the former MC calculation so having them at Multi-Continent level is wrong.

If they need more discussion, they can be done here.

 

[AppleLord]

Here we go...

• Soul King Revision Blog & Yhwach's Successors

• Karakura Town Crew & Visored & Xcutio

• Quincy Revision Blog

• Shinigami Revision Blog

I'll continue to put other characters in there blogs once the calc revisions are finish.

 

[Damage3245]

This line seems a bit unnecessary for Jugram: 'also even as a child he could remain standing when Yhwach exerted his reiatsu but this may have been due to being his "other half"'

The rest of the changes seem fine so far.

 

[AppleLord]

Fixed.

 

[Amlad22]

Yama should scale to the new country level meteor feat in Bankai. That's all I could tell was wrong from a quick glance.

 

[Neatheneath]

I ask it because if the Soul Society had the size of our planet this would bring a delicate topic to the table, it would be the point of Zanka no Tachi the Bankai of Yamamoto destroying the Soul Society with only the enviromental power of this, so we would have to debate if that mention of the manga can be used or is just a tremendous exaggeration.

Note that Soul Society, like world, refers interchangeably to several things:

• the government (people representing / speaking on behalf of soul society / the gotei 13)
• the seat of government (Seireitei)
• the supercity/country (Seireitei+Rukongai)
• everything below the soul king palace (Seireitei+Rukongai+surrounding lands never talked about)
• the whole dimension including the Soul King palace

Which spans a range of destruction from city block to planet or large planet-sized dimension. That's a huge error bar.

 

[AppleLord]

Hey, look ...animals go to the afterlife too. Is a Planet it has a moon, and a sun. Day cycle.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'm pretty sure we aren't really supposed to go with the "has a sun/moon" cycle stuff given what happened with Kaguyas and why precisely using this logic for her is against discussion rules now.

 

[AppleLord]

I'm pretty sure we aren't really supposed to go with the "has a sun/moon" cycle stuff given what happened with Kaguyas and why precisely using this logic for her is against discussion rules now.

that only supports it, kaguya created dimensions, the afterlife wasn't mention to be created

 

[Dariel_Senju]

I ask it because if the Soul Society had the size of our planet this would bring a delicate topic to the table, it would be the point of Zanka no Tachi the Bankai of Yamamoto destroying the Soul Society with only the enviromental power of this, so we would have to debate if that mention of the manga can be used or is just a tremendous exaggeration.

Note that Soul Society, like world, refers interchangeably to several things:

• the government (people representing / speaking on behalf of soul society / the gotei 13)
• the seat of government (Seireitei)
• the supercity/country (Seireitei+Rukongai)
• everything below the soul king palace (Seireitei+Rukongai+surrounding lands never talked about)
• the whole dimension including the Soul King palace

Which spans a range of destruction from city block to planet or large planet-sized dimension. That's a huge error bar.

Thanks for the response, quite interesting and clarifying. With this said then the comment of various characters of Yamamoto destroying the Soul Society would only make sense if they refer to Seireitei and Rukongai next to the surrounding area, it would be impossible for Yamamoto to affect an area as large as a planet.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yamamoto's feat is like, Small Country level to Country level anyway.

 

[AppleLord]

Yamamoto's feat is like, Small Country level to Country level anyway.

Small Country level

 

[Amlad22]

Even though multiple senior Soul reapers state that he's a life wiper, and that all the water on Soul society is being vaporized due to his power... but I guess we don't trust statements anymore unless it downgrades Bleach.

 

[Damage3245]

Even though multiple senior Soul reapers state that he's a life wiper, and that all the water on Soul society is being vaporized due to his power... but I guess we don't trust statements anymore unless it downgrades Bleach.

To give an example... being a life wiper in a city isn't like being a life wiper on an entire planet, right? (Note: Not saying Soul Society is the size of a city, just giving an example)

Simply being said to wipe out all life in an area isn't enough to make someone planet level.

 

[PaChi2]

Even though multiple senior Soul reapers state that he's a life wiper, and that all the water on Soul society is being vaporized due to his power... but I guess we don't trust statements anymore unless it downgrades Bleach.

Eh. I trust Yamamoto's explanation of his bankai being 3 million deegrees more than the statements of "omg its going to kill us all!!!!"

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Eh. I trust Yamamoto's explanation of his bankai being 3 million deegrees more than the statements of "omg its going to kill us all!!!!"

15 million.

 

[PaChi2]

@Soldier thanks for pointing that out. Still 15 million is not planet level afaik.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@Soldier thanks for pointing that out. Still 15 million is not planet level afaik.

Low 6-B

 

[Js250476]

Yeah country level seems to be where Bleach caps at

 

[AppleLord]

Yeah country level seems to be where Bleach caps at

Yhwach has a casual Moon feat.

 

[Js250476]

Yet I've seen that feat just last thread at country level so yeah I ain't buying it

 

[AppleLord]

Yet I've seen that feat just last thread at country level so yeah I ain't buying it

Link?

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@AppleLord

Pretty sure that one needs to be redone. Might be 6-A to lower end High 6-A at most.

 

[Js250476]

@AppleLord https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/bleach-the-blood-war-detergent-parable-part-four.31139/

 

[DodoNova2]

..... So we have 2 calculation, one 6-C, the other 6-A...Awesome ....

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/bleach-the-blood-war-detergent-parable-part-four.31139/

Thanks.

 

[Js250476]

No problem

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I can't check again right now, but wasn't the low end of that calculation low end High 6-B?

 

[Neatheneath]

Yet I've seen that feat just last thread at country level so yeah I ain't buying it

More importantly, can we really take this as a direct application of force, though? I don't see how this scales any of his attack potency, durability, striking strength, etc. Maybe attack speed if the distance and timeframe can be pinned down.

• It's highly specific to the Wandenreich, which itself just magically appeared on top of Seireitei due to some wonky shadow properties.
• He never uses any analogous force against anyone in the series even when it would have clearly been to his advantage
• It's a clear outlier of everything else he or anyone he's fought has done.
• Quincies convert their weapons from / to energy all the time as well, which would have been the most convenient form to pull up the Wandenreich. I mean, the buildings crumbled, right? Did he ALSO rebuild the architecture in perfect detail piece by piece? He's also an architect now?

 

[Js250476]

This looks like it was done via TK which scales to AP durability Ect

 

[AppleLord]

• It's highly specific to the Wandenreich, which itself just magically appeared on top of Seireitei due to some wonky shadow properties.
• He never uses any analogous force against anyone in the series even when it would have clearly been to his advantage
• It's a clear outlier of everything else he or anyone he's fought has done.
• Quincies convert their weapons from / to energy all the time as well, which would have been the most convenient form to pull up the Wandenreich. I mean, the buildings crumbled, right? Did he ALSO rebuild the architecture in perfect detail piece by piece? He's also an architect now?

• Doesn't mean much.

• Againts Ichigo and Yoruichi to throw them fall away instead of pulling them close. A reverse form to Almighty Push and Universal Pull.

• Except he got a new transformation with a power boost before doing that, without previous feats.

• It wasn't pull in form of energy, which is the only form ever shown by regular Quincy.

 

[AppleLord]

• Did he ALSO rebuild the architecture in perfect detail piece by piece? He's also an architect now?

1,000 years ago Yhwach said that they constructed their own dimension under Seireitei. The Wandenreich. Quincy can created anything with Reishi, not just bows and arrows.

 

[Amlad22]

@Damage3245

I get where you're coming from, but the statements are very clear that Yama is destroying not just sereitei but all of soul society. Unohana literally says "I hope you end this battle soon before all of soul society is destroyed by your power". Wiping out all life on a planet is usually around the multi continental range.

Maybe a calc could be done about how much power it would take to vaporize all the water on a planet. It was also stated that Yama was vaporizing all the water which was why Toshiro couldn't use his bankai. I'm not sure what that would yield.

 

[Neatheneath]

And there's also the Soul King palace being described as being in a separate dimension of Soul Society, so I'm not even sure that we can measure the "distance" in a straightforward manner.

https://i.imgur.com/Se3Ygpa.jpg

You wouldn't describe it as a separate dimension if it were just really, really, really far away. Rather, it's in an entirely separate space that you can't really assign a straightforward "distance" to.

How do you get from Seireitei to Soul King palace? Using a King's Key. But what is a King's Key?

https://i.imgur.com/UIBeED9.png

The King's key is a power granted by the Soul King to division zero. If you have a King's Key, or alternatively, the power of the Soul King (which the King's key comes from), you can cross this dimension very easily. There's almost no mention of timeframe for people possessing an Ouken going from Seireitei to Soul King palace.

https://i.imgur.com/GG3FdWc.png

Although the heavenly pillar can traverse the distance, it cannot reach the Spirit palace without a King's key.

How far does it travel to get to Soul King palace? Actually that's weird:

https://i.imgur.com/1egoyOv.png

https://i.imgur.com/MzMgyyo.png

2 pages later, with no mention or show of tremendous time or speed, they are instantly in the Soul King palace. Bleach almost always shows tremendous time or speed when they are present. But here there are almost instantly there. Because they have a King's key with them.

To travel back, Ichigo, not having a King's key, was given an alternative, a special cloak made from a King's key. But it operates differently. Rather than traverse the dimension with ease, it forcefully breaks the barriers between dimensions in such a way that they remain open.

https://i.imgur.com/jPnRd6R.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mYi0ghw.jpg

That is not at all how the division zero initially arrived.

https://i.imgur.com/Sm5RVYy.png

No mention of barriers being forced or remaining open - and it would of course be highly uncharacteristic of division zero to leave the Soul King vulnerable with no barrier at that point. No mention of travel time.

---

So why does this matter?

Yhwach having absorbed / defeated the Soul King would have had the Soul King's ability to generate a King's key from will, which allows him to pass anything from Soul Society to the Soul King palace with ease.

While there is some minimum distance that they have to travel - at least as high as Seireitei ++++ (and maybe a few times for measure) - the distance is nowhere near as massive as being sometimes suggested if a King's key - the will of the Soul King or one of the guards - is present.

Everyone else feels a massive distance / barriers / etc that they must basically cheat with hax.

TLDR: You can assume dimensional weirdness in the elevation of the Wandenreich feat if it makes it more consistent with other feats of his.

 

[Neatheneath]

• Did he ALSO rebuild the architecture in perfect detail piece by piece? He's also an architect now?

1,000 years ago Yhwach said that they constructed their own dimension under Seireitei. The Wandenreich. Quincy can created anything with Reishi, not just bows and arrows.


When they do this, they convert things to energy and back, which is kinda my point.

If Wandenreich was being transported most of the distance using reishi manipulation, I'm not sure you can calc it as TK force.

 

[AppleLord]

• Did he ALSO rebuild the architecture in perfect detail piece by piece? He's also an architect now?

1,000 years ago Yhwach said that they constructed their own dimension under Seireitei. The Wandenreich. Quincy can created anything with Reishi, not just bows and arrows.

When they do this, they convert things to energy and back, which is kinda my point.
If Wandenreich was being transported most of the distance using reishi manipulation, I'm not sure you can calc it as TK force.

Except Yhwach didn't converted to energy.

 

[AppleLord]

---

So why does this matter?

Yhwach having absorbed / defeated the Soul King would have had the Soul King's ability to generate a King's key from will, which allows him to pass anything from Soul Society to the Soul King palace with ease.

While there is some minimum distance that they have to travel - at least as high as Seireitei ++++ (and maybe a few times for measure) - the distance is nowhere near as massive as being sometimes suggested if a King's key - the will of the Soul King or one of the guards - is present.

Everyone else feels a massive distance / barriers / etc that they must basically cheat with hax.

TLDR: You can assume dimensional weirdness in the elevation of the Wandenreich feat if it makes it more consistent with other feats of his.

Even if all of those assumptions are true even with a King's Key, we have an official time-frame.

Tenjiro told Ichigo it takes a week walking down stairs using Shunpo:

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-555-page-5.html

But he decided to through himself at full speed:

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-555-page-13.html

And we have a time frame for Ichigo getting there:

From the Clock Tower in Seireitei, and Ichibei's statement.

The Quincy take over Seireitei began at 5 pm the first day.

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-546-page-11.html

Ichigo went down after 3 hours at 8 pm

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-555-page-7.html

Ichigo arrived at 5:15 am the next day.

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-581-page-21.html

That's 9 hours and 15 minutes or 33,300 seconds.

 

[M11UTD]

Seeing people that don't read the series trying to argue the feats and stats just out of salt is cringe.