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Bleach Distance Calculation Revision

11,092
2,866
Disclaimer: I haven't gotten used to this page yet, sorry if I posted this on the wrong place. I'm sure the mods can help me with that.

After many of the calcs done for this feat were considered "incorrect" base on the assumptions made in the past by other members. I’ve concluded that a new calculation which uses extremely correct and obviously consistent showings should be used because the alternative is having no calc at all.

We’re need the result of this calc to support multiple other calcs for the verse.

I recommend using lightning speed Ichigo to get the Soul King Palace distance, and before you agree or disagree, please give me the benefit of the doubt and read the entire thread before you made your decision. It has logical explanation behind it.

Ichigo's casual speed after his training in the final arc is faster than lighting speed, and his max speed which is needed for this calc is “unknown” to us so why don't we use the speed of lightning for the calc as a low-ball? That is his casual speed.

Now how did I reached the conclusion that Ichigo casual speed or in this case his maximum speed is lightning speed?

Ichigo's minimum shown speed on panel is casually blitzing point blank lightning after he arrived from the palace distance we are trying to calc. Ichigo's speed cannot have changed.

0582-002.png
0582-003.png


Candice lightning is summoned from the clouds.

0581-015.png


The sequel light novels confirmed that even when the lightning girl Candice's power got weaker (Yhwach took her Quincy Vollstandig a transformation that boost their stats to match the Shinigami Bankai multiplier of 5-10x) still surpassed the power of any lightning in nature.

tQOU6ot.png


And it doesn't seem to be about the power, but just in general. Clouds and sounds of thunder are referenced multiple times. (There are also other feats/explanation for other character's abilities like Meninas and Giriko.) It is intentional given by the narrator to us.

vIIjkwH.png


In this other scenario, Tokinada a Captain who is weaker than Ichigo, reacted to the speed of lighting from a fodder Ninja from the second division who are not even captain level. In the novel Tokinada is weaker and slower than characters who fought Kenpachi who himself got blitzed by Candice in the manga. Candice transformed into lighting proving that her lightning is faster than normal lighting as the novel explain.

y6KIuQF.jpeg


There’s no way Ichigo isn’t at least lighting speed casually as proven in the scans. Is no outlier either as Ichigo just got out from training and is heading to the battlefield to show his new powers, and is fair to use.

0581-022.png


I'll use 443842 m/s the average lightning speed accepted in VS Battle Wiki, based on the feat above. A low-ball.

"The speed of lightning can vary mostly in the range of 1.0-14×105 m/s. For the purpose of calculating speed feats we use the average lightning speed of 4.4×105 m/s (Mach 1294), which is suggested by this study. Similar studies have found average speeds within the same order of magnitude, albeit lower."

And before you say, “he rested” Ichigo training for a week in a treadmill designed to drain his spiritual energy and trained for months without rest.

ct2IlC4.png


Here is the accepted stamina thread for Ichigo's character.

Now that that is out of the way let’s make the calc.

CALC

Timeframe
:

Normally the distance would take a week:

0555-005.png


604800 seconds, but... Ichigo going at full speed arrived earlier than expected by those who trained him.

He even crashed on arrival.

0581-021.png


From the Clock Tower in Seireitei, and Ichibei's statement.

The Quincy take over Seireitei began at 5 pm the first day.

0546-011.png


Ichigo went down after 3 hours at 8 pm

0555-007.png


Ichigo arrived at 5:15 am the next day.

0581-021.png


That's 9 hours and 15 minutes or 33,300 seconds.

distance = speed x time

distance = 14779900000 miles

Important note:


The distance isn't "realistic" is not a counter argument, because the distance is in between two different dimensions that can only be cross when the 72 barriers/doors that connected and open. Ichigo broke them all on his way down.


0223-007.png
0585-005.png


The calcs that depend on it are:
The profiles this would affect are:
If any calc group members or staff members have any input, please feel free to add to this thread.
 
@AppleLord; this is the same basis as trying to hide a calc in "Calc Stacking" as outlined in this page.

> Hiding calculations is the practice of trying to avoid calculating a feat in order to be able to use the result in another calculation. In other words it is the practice of trying to fool people into not noticing that calc stacking is being used.

> This usually occurs if a feat is quantified per a rule of thumb instead of precisely calculated. A typical example would be a character dodging a bullet from a short distance being ranked as "Supersonic" and then using that ranking to calculate the speed of another character, whose speed one can compare to the former in some feat.

> While it is acceptable to rank a character by such a self-evident feat without a calculation, one should keep in mind that the unwritten calculation is only skipped due to being trivial, but is still the justification for the ranking. Hence calc stacking will still be an issue for such feats.

You're avoiding calcing Ichigo's speed here.
 
Shoudn't this case be a little bit different from the example of the gun?

Because in this case, he is just casually scaled to a charachter that has that speed via just statements. So it is likely, Ichigo himself had that statements.
 
@Damage3245

If you're still opposed we can actually calculate how fast Ichigo is casually, by using the distance Candice's lightning attack moved verses the distance Ichigo moved.

If we did that and used that value would you find the calc permissible?

0582-002.png

We could calc for the casual speed of Ichigo, and then I see no reason to oppose the calc.
 
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@Damage3245

If you're still opposed we can actually calculate how fast Ichigo is casually, by using the distance Candice's lightning attack moved verses the distance Ichigo moved.

If we did that and used that value would you find the calc permissible?

No - because then that would literally result in calc stacking taking place. By calculating Ichigo's speed and then using it to calculate the speed of multiple other characters.
 
No - because then that would literally result in calc stacking taking place. By calculating Ichigo's speed and then using it to calculate the speed of multiple other characters.
I have an idea based on Ichigo's clothes removing friction whilst he travels.

Without air resistance there is no terminal velocity, and being that Ichigo is traveling down with urgency we can find use a value for acceleration, and his initial speed being at least mach 1 from what we see. Being that there is no resistive force it's fair to assume a constant acceleration while Ichigo is travelling downwards.

x = vt + 0.5at^2

Assuming Ichigo accelerates at:

1 m/s^2 -> 5.66E5 km (Ichigo reaches Mach 98) This seems entirely fair imo
5 m/s^2 -> 2.78E6 km (Ichigo reaches Mach 486)
9.8 m/s^2 -> 5.44E6 km Ichigo reaches Mach 952)
 
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Personally I think the best solution is to use the version of the calc I created that uses Supersonic speed, or to just ignore the distance altogether.

Also, until the current thread addressing the speed ratings in Bleach is resolved, it might be best to put this on hold - at least until we have a clearer idea where things stand with the ratings.
 
I thought the current thread was resolved, you're taking the agreed suggestions and recalcing the Uryu explosion thing.

What are everyone's thoughts on assuming Ichigo travelled from the top of the barrier to the clock tower within a second (being that he hit it so fast the femritters didn't know what it was), using essentially the radius of Seireitei to find Ichigo's travel speed? It's calcing his final velocity, so then we can find his acceleration, and then find distance.

vi = 343 m/s
vf = 509300 m/s
t = 33300 s
a = (vf - vi)/t = 15.28 m/s^2
x = tvi + 0.5at^2 = 8.49E6 km

I'll include assuming he hit the clock tower within 3 and 5 seconds as well
falling in 3 seconds
x=2.83E6 km
falling in 5 seconds
x=1.70E6 km

We know he started his travel at least at Mach 1 via the sound barrier breaking, and we know his final velocity would be the ~radius of Seireitei divided by how long it took him to hit that clock tower. Apple went into detail about why assuming Ichigo took breaks is unfounded so I won't repeat. Assuming constant acceleration lowballs the calc since Ichigo would have likely hit top speed as soon as possible since he doesn't want his friends to die. The time frame of him hitting clock tower has to be assumed, but given Candice who easily outscales lightning, assuming 1 second is more than fair, but I calced for 3 and 5 seconds for the sake of appeasing.
 
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Does not the rule of calc stacking exist also because of intent of the author? We use statements instead of multiple calc, because it can create flaw that does not match the intent of the author at all.

But we have a statements for lighting speed that is not from an object like a gun, but from a character which is quite different...

And we know that Ichigo is faster, not via calc, but via what is shown itself by the manga and the plot itself of that chapter, that’s just scaling.

there is no calc stacking on scaling Ichigo speed, to a character speed Via statements, because that would simply mean that the statements can be casually applied to Ichigo too.
 
I’m sorry, but I’m still uncertain why the distance would still be applicable here.

I know the Soul Kings dimension and the SS were connected via the Oken, but I’m not sure how or why traveling between different connected dimensions would still act as physical distance. The portals (or whatever opening the Oken counts as) are making it so that travel between the dimensions is shorted/altered.
 
Because Ichigo physically travels a distance... he's moving with a speed over a time, that's a physical distance. The way they reach the Soul Palace is by being launched in the sky with one of Shiba pillar canons.

If Apple's method gets rejected for whatever reason, I think my method would be the next best option.
 
Because Ichigo physically travels a distance... he's moving with a speed over a time, that's a physical distance.
Yes, through an opening between 2 different dimensions that isn’t, the way I’m seeing this, indicative of actual physical distance.

Unless of course your saying these worlds are literally miles apart from each other.
 
soul king palace is not a world, the place is stated to be above soul society protected by the 72 barriers and ichigo traveled not by portal or teleportation but by flying
 
Yes, through an opening between 2 different dimensions that isn’t, the way I’m seeing this, indicative of actual physical distance.

Unless of course your saying these worlds are literally miles apart from each other.
Yes I am saying they are separated by a physical distance. Also, what TOAA said.
 
I thought the current thread was resolved, you're taking the agreed suggestions and recalcing the Uryu explosion thing.

What are everyone's thoughts on assuming Ichigo travelled from the top of the barrier to the clock tower within a second (being that he hit it so fast the femritters didn't know what it was), using essentially the radius of Seireitei to find Ichigo's travel speed? It's calcing his final velocity, so then we can find his acceleration, and then find distance.

vi = 343 m/s
vf = 509300 m/s
t = 33300 s
a = (vf - vi)/t = 15.28 m/s^2
x = tvi + 0.5at^2 = 8.49E6 km

I'll include assuming he hit the clock tower within 3 and 5 seconds as well
falling in 3 seconds
x=2.83E6 km
falling in 5 seconds
x=1.70E6 km

We know he started his travel at least at Mach 1 via the sound barrier breaking, and we know his final velocity would be the ~radius of Seireitei divided by how long it took him to hit that clock tower. Apple went into detail about why assuming Ichigo took breaks is unfounded so I won't repeat. Assuming constant acceleration lowballs the calc since Ichigo would have likely hit top speed as soon as possible since he doesn't want his friends to die. The time frame of him hitting clock tower has to be assumed, but given Candice who easily outscales lightning, assuming 1 second is more than fair, but I calced for 3 and 5 seconds for the sake of appeasing.
This is the best thing, since we have Ichigo’s initial and final speed, we also have enough evidence that he could continue the trip maintaining this acceleration without a problem.
My calculation addresses this.
 
Yes I am saying they are separated by a physical distance. Also, what TOAA said.
So a dimension that’s clearly obviously separated by space-time (Oken is a key that opens to the Soul Palace’s dimension, this would not exist if the dimensions were physically set apart) and is supposed to be seperate from the SS

Is just miles above the SS?
 
nothing suggest that, it is a physical distance, protected by 72 barrier that you need to destroy to open a physical path to travel, Yhwach even used that path opened by Ichigo to travel Up there.
It is potrayed to be a physical distance, otherwise the statements you need 7 days of Shunpo to travel it doesn’t not even make sense In first place.
 
no, nothing suggest that.

the fact that you can cross it with different periods of time, by changing your speed mean it is a physical distance to travel. Basic logic.

Literally, we Know that normal shunpo require 7 days, Ichigo by speeding up traveled the distance in hours, Yhwach Black beam literally shown to travel the distance in seconds, same for mimihagi.

you Can easily come to the conclusion there is a distance, since different period of time of travelling it, change based on your speed.

You didn’t even quoted the part, of me, explaing it is portrayed to be a physical distance by the zero squad member, that need to be traveled With SPEED and that by increasing it, you travel it faster AKA literally the meaning of physical distance.
 
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If it’s seperated by barriers normally, that does the exact opposite and suggests it is seperated dimensionally.
being inside a barrier does not mean is separated by a dimention

is like saying since sereitei has a barrier it goes into a different dimension that the location it was at

not to mention if it was separeted why would u it takes u 7 days using shunpo to arrive?
 
being inside a barrier does not mean is separated by a dimention

is like saying since sereitei has a barrier it goes into a different dimension that the location it was at

not to mention if it was separeted why would u it takes u 7 days using shunpo to arrive?
Dimensional barriers are a thing, and how do you know these barriers aren’t literally just dimensional walls like it is for any typical dimension? The barriers enclose the dimension and normally separate it from the Soul Society.

And as for the shunpo statement, how long it takes to cross doesn’t matter when here we are talking about the distance that’s actually being crossed. Plus, isn’t it only supposed to apply when these barriers are open?
 
no, nothing suggest that.

the fact that you can cross it with different periods of time, by changing your speed mean it is a physical distance to travel. Basic logic.
Okay and I’m arguing that said Distance isn’t quantifiable distance like the OP is pointing out.

How long it takes to travel =/= how quantifiably far the distance t
No Yhwach shot himself up to the Soul Palace with an arrow.
Im talking about him leaving the soul palace after he dumpstered Ichigo and Renji.

Last I remembered is he used the Garganta (or Dangai) to go to the Soul Society. Right before he clashed with Aizen.
 
I feel like we are derailing a bit here, nowhere is it stated that Soul Palace and Soul Society are separated by a dimensional barrier.

Ichigo flies from Soul Palace to Seireitei.

Shiba shoots everyone up with a pillar, not once does the pillar go through a portal, it is literally just shot straight into the air.

Yhwach rides an arrow up to Soul Palace.

Squad 0 rides a pillar down to Soul Society.

The gates that came down the sky in SS arc came from Soul Palace.

Ichigo and gang later use the Garganta to surprise Yhwach, not because they can't get there physically.

Yhwach portals down to Soul Society because it's quicker than traversing the distance physically.

The simplest and most sensible deduction is that the Soul Palace is physically above Seireitei.
 
Dimensional barriers are a thing, and how do you know these barriers aren’t literally just dimensional walls like it is for any typical dimension? The barriers enclose the dimension and normally separate it from the Soul Society.

And as for the shunpo statement, how long it takes to cross doesn’t matter when here we are talking about the distance that’s actually being crossed. Plus, isn’t it only supposed to apply when these barriers are open?
No Kukui stop spreading disinformation.
stop derailing bleach thread as usual with no sense.
this is an important, and I have no time to explain the obvious, and something that is already accepted.

0585-005.png


The oken is the material of Ichigo robe, and it is needed to stop friction AKA travelling a distance and destroy physically the barrier during the fly. As I already explained, the fast you go, the less time you need to travel, that is literally the meaning of DISTANCE.

and Yhwach used the physical path opened by Ichigo to travel by himself, and he didn’t used garganta.
 
This is the best thing, since we have Ichigo’s initial and final speed, we also have enough evidence that he could continue the trip maintaining this acceleration without a problem.
My calculation addresses this.
Side note no one's going to argue it's still calc stacking are they? Calcing Ichigo's speed whilst traveling a portion of his journey and then using that feat to find the distance of that journey cannot be calc stacking as I understand it, seeing how both are part of the same scene/feat.
 
No Kukui stop spreading disinformation.
stop derailing bleach thread as usual with no sense.
this is an important, and I have no time to explain the obvious, and something that is already accepted.

0585-005.png


The oken is the material of Ichigo robe, and it is needed to stop friction AKA travelling a distance and destroy physically the barrier during the fly. As I already explained, the more fast you go, the less time you need to travel, that is literally the meaning of DISTANCE.

and Yhwach used the physical path opened by Ichigo to travel by himself, and he didn’t used garganta.
Ah yes the usual “stop detailing threads as usual” rebuttal when’s it comes to a disagreement. Typical.

Anyway, I don’t care what’s “already accepted”, I’m pointing out something that I’m not understanding why it’s the case and the arguments for it like anyone else can and does

And Yhwach didn’t use a portal? What do you call this then?
001.png
 
Buddy when he originally went up to Soul Palace he didn't use a portal. Have you read Bleach? Are you knowledgeable on Bleach?

After absorbing all that he absorbed he gained the ability to create portals, why wouldn't he portal down since it's quicker at that point.

This doesn't prove Soul Palace is a separate dimension. To which you are asserting so please prove why it must be a separate dimension.
 
oh, you didnt addressed anything of what I wrote.

that scan is Yhwach at the end of manga using a portal. Because he can by himself.
That is completely irrelevant to entire post, the Fact that Yhwach can use portal to move as Soul king does not debunk nothing.

And please, at least respect the one who are commenting here and are knowledgeable, you literally came here with ZERO knowledge about the subject. You do not know Oken, you do not know minimally what we are talking about, yet your trying to debunk something using random thing that came up to your mind just to delaring a difficult thread that need to be solved.

I already explained everything to you multiple time, and you did not addressed anythin of what I said. The fact you are now using random scan and do not accept you are wrong is even worst.
 
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oh, you didnt addressed anything of what I wrote.
You said he didn’t use Garganta or a portal to leave the dimension to get to the SS. The scan I went to find...kinda says otherwise on that.

So yes I read what you said.

that scan is Yhwach at the end of manga using a portal. Because he can by himself.

“Because he can” is not exactly an argument. That’s a copout.

That is completely irrelevant to entire post, the Fact that Yhwach can use portal to move as Soul king does not debunk nothing.
It would however suggest portals are needed to go between the 2 dimensions. You know, portals suggesting they are seperated dimensionally.

Yhwach traveled there physically to begin with because the openings were already opened by Ichigo traveling through them.

And please, at least respect the one who are commenting here and are knowledgeable, you literally came here with ZERO knowledge about the subject. You do not know Oken, you do not know minimally what we are talking about, yet your trying to debunk something using random thing that came up to your mind just to delaring a difficult thread that need to be solved.
Yeah and no offense, I don’t have any reason to respect someone who throws petty remarks over a disagreement for their series (like you are right now) when I’ve been nothing but respectfully pointing out what I had issues with here.

Had the “stop detailing stuff as usual” bit didn’t come up, I’d see where your coming from.
I already explained everything to you, and you did not addressed anythin of what I said. The fact you are now using random scan and do not accept you are in wrong is even worst.
A “random” scan that clearly shows dimensional travel and, at the worst, would certainly give credit to why I held that stance in the first place isn’t random.
 
Kukui buddy you're not understanding...

When Yhwach first goes to Soul Palace he doesn't use a portal, he flies straight up.

When Shiba wants to launch everyone up she doesn't use a portal, she fires them up in a physical pillar.

When Squad 0 wants to visit Soul Society they don't use a portal, they fly down in a physical pillar.

When Aizen says he'll shoot down Soul Palace, he implies he will physically bring it down, not teleport it down.

Yhwach using a portal once does not prove Soul Palace is dimensionally separated from Soul Society.
 
"It would however suggest portals are needed to go between the 2 dimensions. You know, portals suggesting they are seperated dimensionally."

not really, as we have seen already them traveling that distance physically

"Yhwach traveled there physically to begin with because the openings were already opened by Ichigo traveling through them."

yea, cus the shields had a hole in them

so if ur argument is "no one can go in there normally cus they have 72 shields" yea

but they can travel the distance psychically if the shields are not there as shown by ichigo and yhwach
 
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