Bleach Captains Power Cliffing Revision / Soul Society Arc Upgrade

[Tsotso]

As of right now, some Bleach profiles have highly questionable tier differences between keys due to powercliffing between the Soul Society, Arrancar and Fake Karakura Town arcs.

The issue:

An example of this would be Tōshirō Hitsugaya's profile. He's Mountain level+ during the Soul Society Arc, scaling off of this calc. I would assume his Shikai and Bankai are both intended to be in this tier during the SS Arc, as in following keys they are usually separated into two different tiers.

In his next key, Hitsugaya is still Mountain level+ in Shikai but is now Island level in Bankai. If his Bankai is supposed to be rated as Mountain level+ in the SS Arc, then it would have gotten at least 4.3 times stronger between the Soul Society Arc and the Arrancar Arc.

The time between the end of the Soul Society Arc and Hitsugaya's first appearance in the Arrancar Arc is 25 days according to the timeline of events. But him having gotten 4.3 times stronger in Bankai during that time is questionable. If his Mountain level+ tier in the SS Arc is supposed to be only for Shikai, and Bankai was just not added in the key, forget what I just said.

The following key is when the power cliffing becomes pretty absurd, however.

In his Fake Karakura Town Arc key, Hitsugaya is now rated at possibly Large Island level in Shikai and Country level in Bankai.

That's a huge powerup from the Arrancar Arc key. In Shikai he is now at least 100 times stronger and in Bankai he is now at least 70 times stronger.
This is completely nonsensical considering that the time between his first appearance in the Arrancar Arc and the Fake Karakura Town Arc is only 55 days according to the timeline of events.
Such a huge jump happening purely due to powercliffing over less than 2 months makes no sense whatsoever.

Other profiles which have this type of overexaggerated power cliffing between the aforementioned arcs include:

Suì-Fēng
Gin Ichimaru
Byakuya Kuchiki
Sajin Komamura
Kaname Tōsen
Mayuri Kurotsuchi

Also, the power boost they receive during the 17 month timeskip is lower than the ones they received between the first arcs, which doesn't make sense.


The solution

The reason why some of these characters are only Mountain level+ in the SS Arc and make huge jumps to higher tiers in the Arrancar and FKT Arcs purely due to powercliffing are these three calcs, but most importantly the first one. The captains in the SS arc are scaled to Hitsugaya's calc while in the Arrancar Arc they are scaled to the Espada, which creates this huge discrepency between their keys that doesn't make much sense considering they have not received any notable power ups so there's only power cliffing.

The way to solve this is to upgrade their souls society key tiers. Hitsugaya's Shikai calc is fine but it shouldn't be representative of his or the captains' full power during the SS Arc considering they can fight the Espada less than 3 months later. Personally, I would suggest upgrading the Soul Society Arc keys from 7-A to at least 6-C for the ones who are Mountain level+.

Byakuya should be higher than Island level in the SS Arc considering he's Country level in the Hueco Mundo Arc. Him getting at least 70 times stronger in less than 3 months with nothing but powercliffing is highly questionable, so he should be High 6-C or Low 6-B in Bankai during the SS Arc. This would also upsale SS Arc Ichigo.

 

[Damage3245]

Characters can get stronger between arcs. Can you prove that the Island level calcs backscale to the Soul Society arc?

How is this any different to taking their Continent level ratings in the Post-Timeskip and backscaling them to the beginning of the series?

 

[Ovy7]

What Damage said. This growth can even be clearly seen with Hitsugaya, as he went from getting nearly defeated by a Fraccion at the start of Arrancar Arc, to fighting somewhat evenly with Harribel in the Fake Karakura Town Arc, 1 month later.

 

[Tsotso]

Characters can get stronger between arcs.

I never said they don't. I just said that the differences between the keys for some of the arcs are too huge to fit in the realm of plausibility considering how little time there is between the arcs.

Can you prove that the Island level calcs backscale to the Soul Society arc?

Logically speaking, the captains should get a way bigger increase during the 17 month timeskip than during the time between the SS and Arrancar arcs as well as between the Arrancar and FKT arcs. But that's not the case according to the profiles.

During the 17 month timeskip, Kyoraku and Ukitake only go up one tier (Country to Large Country, 14x increase) while Byakuya and Toshiro don't change their tiers at all. Yet according to the current state of their profiles, Byakuya got at least 70 times stronger in under three months while Hitsugaya got 100 times stronger in Shikai and 70 times stronger in Bankai in just 55 days. And yet they don't change tiers at all after 17 months? Doesn't make much sense.

How is this any different to taking their Continent level ratings in the Post-Timeskip and backscaling them to the beginning of the series?

No captain gets to continental due to timeskip powercliffing. Byakuya, Kenpachi and Hitsugaya get to those levels during the TYBW because they receive powerups and/or a small training arc after the timeskip.

This growth can even be clearly seen with Hitsugaya, as he went from getting nearly defeated by a Fraccion at the start of Arrancar Arc

Wasn't that because he was suppressing himself to 20% of his power with the special seal (don't remember what it was called)?

 

[Damage3245]

I never said they don't. I just said that the differences between the keys for some of the arcs are too huge to fit in the realm of plausibility considering how little time there is between the arcs.

We don't have the same standards for plausbility then.

During the 17 month timeskip, Kyoraku and Ukitake only go up one tier (Country to Large Country, 14x increase) while Byakuya and Toshiro don't change their tiers at all. Yet according to the current state of their profiles, Byakuya got at least 70 times stronger in under three months while Hitsugaya got 100 times stronger in Shikai and 70 times stronger in Bankai in just 55 days. And yet they don't change tiers at all after 17 months? Doesn't make much sense.

That's because we operate off of feats and calcs, not hypothetical reasoning like "If they got X stronger in Y timeframe, then they should have gotten Z stronger in this other timeframe."

 

[Tsotso]

That's because we operate off of feats and calcs, not hypothetical reasoning like "If they got X stronger in Y timeframe, then they should have gotten Z stronger in this other timeframe."

If there was anything which happened between the first arcs which could have caused these massive power ups, I would agree with you. But no such thing has ever occured. So then how do you justify their massive increases in small timespans when they don't get that much stronger during a much larger timeskip?

The discrepancy between the huge boosts in power pre-timeskip (which occur in short amounts of time) and the much smaller boost occuring during the timeskip (which is 17 months) contradicts basic logic.

We don't have the same standards for plausbility then.

I'm not saying the boosts in power between the SS and Arrancar arcs as well as between the Arrancar and FKT arcs are nonsensical because I'm comparing them to some personal standard of mine. I'm saying they're nonsensical because of how they compare to the boosts during the much larger timeskip of 17 months.

 

[Ovy7]

Wasn't that because he was suppressing himself to 20% of his power with the special seal (don't remember what it was called)?

Yes, he was restricted to only 20%. But at the same time base Shawlong was ******** on Bankai Hitsugaya, and after he activated his Resurreccion, Shawlong was completely stomping him. Hitsugaya needed the 5x boost form the seal and the surprise attack to narrowly defeat Shawlong. Going from barely beating a Fraccion to fighting evenly with the Nr. 3 Espada in just a month is a HUGE increase in power.

 

[Damage3245]

If there was anything which happened between the first arcs which could have caused these massive power ups, I would agree with you. But no such thing has ever occured. So then how do you justify their massive increases in small timespans when they don't get that much stronger during a much larger timeskip?

Well, in my view we're using significantly inflated calcs.

There's actually an error with one of the calcs that would halve some of the ratings, which I've noticed.

I'm not saying the boosts in power between the SS and Arrancar arcs as well as between the Arrancar and FKT arcs are nonsensical because I'm comparing them to some personal standard of mine. I'm saying they're nonsensical because of how they compare to the boosts during the much larger timeskip of 17 months.

Because they're not actually that powerful then.

 

[Loyd]

oh boy Bleach CRT lets fkn goo

 

[Tsotso]

Yes, he was restricted to only 20%. But at the same time base Shawlong was ******** on Bankai Hitsugaya, and after he activated his Resurreccion, Shawlong was completely stomping him. Hitsugaya needed the 5x boost form the seal and the surprise attack to narrowly defeat Shawlong. Going from barely beating a Fraccion to fighting evenly with the Nr. 3 Espada in just a month is a HUGE increase in power.

Shawlong only seemed impressive because Hitsugaya was weakened. Mentioning "surprise attack" is pointless as when the seal was removed, he started pissing his pants and was running away from Hitsugaya because he was now way weaker than him. It wasn't a narrow win, Hitsugaya one shotted him. The Números don't have a power ranking like the Espada so Shawlong could've been closer to the level of the Privaron Espada than the other Números. Also Harribel was not fully serious when fighting him and overwhelmed him when she actually tried. He wasn't equal to her at all.

 

[Tsotso]

Well, in my view we're using significantly inflated calcs.

There's actually an error with one of the calcs that would halve some of the ratings, which I've noticed.

Which one?

Because they're not actually that powerful then.

Even if the boosts in power are halved, they're still on a whole other level than the timeskip one.

 

[SilentBob34]

Everybody be prepared to say hello to 7A+ Bleach for everyone

 

[SilentBob34]

@Damage, I’m guessing the calc you have a problem with is probably Ulquiorra’s calc?

 

[CuddleFox]

If there was anything which happened between the first arcs which could have caused these massive power ups, I would agree with you. But no such thing has ever occured. So then how do you justify their massive increases in small timespans when they don't get that much stronger during a much larger timeskip?

If there is something you find illogical in the estimates, it is a problem of the manga. There is nothing we can do if the estimations we can make with what we know make the evolutions absurd.

The point is not to fix the mistakes of the manga to estimate plausible tiering, the point is to take feats and calculate power with them and only them.

 

[Tsotso]

If there is something you find illogical in the estimates, it is a problem of the manga. There is nothing we can do if the estimations we can make with what we know make the evolutions absurd.

Blaming the manga's consistency should only be done if there's nothing we can do to compensate for inconsistencies or illogical powercliffing in this case.

All I'm proposing with this revision is to upgrade the captains' SS arc key because Hitsugaya's 7-A+ calc is not necessarily indicative of him and the other captains' full power during the SS arc, which is supported by their feats against the Espada less than 3 months later.

 

[CuddleFox]

It doesn't work that way. We're not here to compensate the manga's problem, we work with them.

 

[Gitagon]

What Damage said. This growth can even be clearly seen with Hitsugaya, as he went from getting nearly defeated by a Fraccion at the start of Arrancar Arc, to fighting somewhat evenly with Harribel in the Fake Karakura Town Arc, 1 month later.

I will mention that Hitsugaya's power was restricted to like 20% and once he released his limiter, he one-shot.

Also, Grimmjow's Fraccion were 11 through to like 15 meaning at least reatsu wise, they were the 4 guys right below the Espada in terms of strength not counting the Privaron Espada. They are literally the strongest Fraccion in the series.

 

[Tsotso]

It doesn't work that way. We're not here to compensate the manga's problem, we work with them.

What I was saying is that it only becomes a problem if it's blatantly inconsistent and we can't compensate for it.

 

[Damage3245]

Also, Grimmjow's Fraccion were 11 through to like 15 meaning at least reatsu wise, they were the 4 guys right below the Espada in terms of strength not counting the Privaron Espada. They are literally the strongest Fraccion in the series.

The ranks below the Espada aren't for their strength. They're just numbered according to the order that they become Arrancar.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

These guys were training, Toshiro is repeatedly stated to be a prodigy, we don't have a clear view of how strong Hitsugaya is compared to the other Captains except Gin who was holding back, and there's repeated showing of there being a huge discrepancy between captains themselves, we are told early in the series that characters do get something akin to Zenkais in the series and we're shown that Toshiro is one of the characters who trains his ass off, also we are specifically stated by Aizen that there is a limit to how strong each race gets individually, by CFYOW Base Aizen is still regarded as incredibly powerful compared to everyone. Shunsui and Ukitake not getting that strong can be explained through Shunsui being lazy and Ukitake is almost always bedridden so he can't be getting strong by training non stop.

What else do you need? This power cliffing is nothing special. They had roughly a few months from Soul Society Arc to Fake Karakura Town Arc and once again we are told they trained and even see them training.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

The ranks below the Espada aren't for their strength. They're just numbered according to the order that they become Arrancar.

Exactly so. Or well 0-9 is ranked through strength (Thanks Yammy and Cien)

 

[Tsotso]

we're shown that Toshiro is one of the characters who trains his ass off

Why didn't he train his ass off during the timeskip like he supposedly did inbetween the early arcs? I'm asking because, according to the current profiles, he practically doesn't get a boost during the timeskip compared to the ones he received earlier on during shorter timespans.

also we are specifically stated by Aizen that there is a limit to how strong each race gets individually

I don't get how that's related to anything here.

by CFYOW Base Aizen is still regarded as incredibly powerful compared to everyone.

Tell that to the people who put base Bazz-B, Candice Catnipp, Liltotto Lamperd, Giselle Gewelle and Bambietta Basterbine an entire tier above Shikai Yamamoto and Base Aizen.

Shunsui and Ukitake not getting that strong can be explained through Shunsui being lazy and Ukitake is almost always bedridden so he can't be getting strong by training non stop.

I never said those two had nonsensical powercliffing.

What else do you need? This power cliffing is nothing special. They had roughly a few months from Soul Society Arc to Fake Karakura Town Arc and once again we are told they trained and even see them training.

The problem that makes the powercliffing nonsensical is that the powercliffing boosts they got in under three months are way higher than the ones they got over 17 months, during which characters are also stated to have trained.

 

[Damage3245]

The problem that makes the powercliffing nonsensical is that the powercliffing boosts they got in under three months are way higher than the ones they got over 17 months, during which characters are also stated to have trained.

Who cares, honestly?

This is like complaining "If they got this stronger in 17 months, why didn't they get even stronger over the decades and centuries that they were alive for?"

Tell that to the people who put base Bazz-B, Candice Catnipp, Liltotto Lamperd, Giselle Gewelle and Bambietta Basterbine an entire tier above Shikai Yamamoto and Base Aizen.

There are going to be revisions to fix them.

 

[Tsotso]

Who cares, honestly?

Anyone who cares about basic logic and consistency?

his is like complaining "If they got this stronger in 17 months, why didn't they get even stronger over the decades and centuries that they were alive for?"

The TBTP arc has no feats to scale so there's no inconsistency there. For all we know, most captains could have been city level back then but it has nothing to do with this discussion.

There are going to be revisions to fix them.

Hopefully, because iirc Bazz-B was roasted by Yama's Shikai even when using his flames to defend himself. Yet on his profile his base durability is a tier higher than Yama's Shikai AP.

 

[Tsotso]

Hitsugaya's calc is for a side effect of activating his Shikai. It doesn't necessarily represent his full attack power in Shikai nor is it for his Bankai, which is 5-10 times stronger. The result of the Shikai calc was 906.24 Megatons, which multiplied by 5 is 4.5312 Gigatons, which is Island level for Bankai. If it is given the full 10 times multiplier, it's 9.0624 Megatons, which is still Island level. So even if @Damage3245 doesn't care about powercliffing making sense, Hitsugaya's SS arc key should have Island level with Bankai, unless I've misinterpreted something about the calc, in which case please point it out.

Byakuya has tanked an Island level attack from Ichigo, which is represented in his durability and is why he has likely Island level on his Soul Society key attack potency. Kenpachi and Tosen also have it, further supporting Mountain level+ being too low for the captains.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Why didn't he train his ass off during the timeskip like he supposedly did inbetween the early arcs? I'm asking because, according to the current profiles, he practically doesn't get a boost during the timeskip compared to the ones he received earlier on during shorter timespans.

You do know that Toshiro's Adult Form came from the Bankai training he did during the 17 months right? That's not something that developed after his Bankai got stolen obviously. Byakuya got to the level he's at from Squad 0 training. Kenpachi got to the level he's at from Unohana hacking and forcing his soul to strengthen via putting him near death constantly, over and over, on top of him learning Shikai and Bankai. Toshiro got there from training on his own and maturing his Bankai during the 17 month skip

As for the powercliffing thing, the Gotei 13 were actually preparing for war with Aizen and his army of hollows since the end of the SS arc. It's also an established thing in Bleach that they get soul zenkai boosts. When the life of the person in question is in danger, or when they're in life and death scenarios, the soul strengthens and boosts drastically. Urahara and Unohana abused this in training for Ichigo and Kenpachi, but the rest of the Gotei either trained, expereinced this life or death scenario, or did both like Toshiro. We actually see his progression. After the 'zenaki' from fighting Shawlong, he then went on to one shot Luppi with a prepped/charged attack, who's Espada 6. Then, after that situation there's more off screen preparation from the Gotei, and then he's able to fight and overcome Halibel with his technique. We see Byakuya and Kenpachi have more trouble with Espada 7 and 5 than they do with Espada 0, after they got powered up from their fights against the previously mentioned Espada.

I do agree with SS Hitsugaya potentially being rated as stronger though. The storm was really just a side effect, and not even him actually focusing or honing his power. Bankai would be alot stronger than that anyways.

 

[Tsotso]

You do know that Toshiro's Adult Form came from the Bankai training he did during the 17 months right? That's not something that developed after his Bankai got stolen obviously.

Yes. What does that have to do with anything I've said, though...

Byakuya got to the level he's at from Squad 0 training.

When did I say he didn't?

Kenpachi got to the level he's at from Unohana hacking and forcing his soul to strengthen via putting him near death constantly, over and over, on top of him learning Shikai and Bankai.

When did I even talk about Kenpachi? I know Bleach characters can get zenkai boosts and I never denied that.

Toshiro got there from training on his own and maturing his Bankai during the 17 month skip

If you paid attention to what I've been saying during this thread, you'd see that the problem I've pointed out, in Hitsugaya's case, is that the power boosts he receives during the smaller 1-2 month timeskips between the initial arcs are way bigger than the boost he got during the much longer 17 month timeskip, according to the VS Wiki profile, that is. During the timeskip Hitsugaya himself states he trained harder than ever before iirc. This makes the almost nonexistent boost on his profile during the 17 month thimeskip illogical when you compare it to the ones between earlier arcs.

I never said Hitsugaya shouldn't get a big boost during the 17 month timeskip, quite the opposite. I pointed out why the earlier powercliffing boosts didn't make much sense when compared to the one from the longer timeskip. This isn't about Hitsugaya specifically, it also applies to other characters, too.

As for the powercliffing thing, the Gotei 13 were actually preparing for war with Aizen and his army of hollows since the end of the SS arc.

My point is that the time between the SS and Arrancar arcs is way less than between the Deicide and Fullbring or TYBW arcs.

It's also an established thing in Bleach that they get soul zenkai boosts. When the life of the person in question is in danger, or when they're in life and death scenarios, the soul strengthens and boosts drastically. Urahara and Unohana abused this in training for Ichigo and Kenpachi, but the rest of the Gotei either trained, expereinced this life or death scenario, or did both like Toshiro.

Once again, I never said zenkai boosts or powercliffing didn't exist in Bleach.

We actually see his progression. After the 'zenaki' from fighting Shawlong, he then went on to one shot Luppi with a prepped/charged attack, who's Espada 6.

Luppi wasn't on the level of the Espada. Aizen put him there to spite Grimmjow, who effortlessly oneshotted Luppi, showing the difference between them in power. Also, while zenkai boosts do exist, they're unquantifiable.

Then, after that situation there's more off screen preparation from the Gotei, and then he's able to fight and overcome Halibel with his technique.

He wasn't actually matching her in power during their fight and was overwhelmed once she got serious.

We see Byakuya and Kenpachi have more trouble with Espada 7 and 5 than they do with Espada 0, after they got powered up from their fights against the previously mentioned Espada.

Kenpachi was suppressing himself against Nnoitra to have a good fight, which is confirmed in the TYBW arc. Byakuya's fight with Zoomari was about trying to overcome his hax, not a power contest. Byakuya wasn't near death during his fight and Kenpachi wasn't pushed to use his full power. If you're trying to imply that Nnoitra and Zoomari are stronger than Yammy, you're wrong as confirmed in the databook. But this has nothing to do with the discussion.

I do agree with SS Hitsugaya potentially being rated as stronger though. The storm was really just a side effect, and not even him actually focusing or honing his power. Bankai would be alot stronger than that anyways.

Finally someone with a brain. Also, I think whoever made Hitsugaya's SS arc key just forgot to add Island level with Bankai after Mountain level+

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Toshiro went from possibly 6-B to 6-A/High 6-A in the 17 months between the FKT arc and the TYBW. Keep in mind, while it wasn't outright said, it was implied that Toshiro discovered his adult form during the Bankai training that he mentioned he went through during those 17 months. While we might not have seen a significant boost in his base form (I'd argue that he actually did get alot stronger, considering he was able to one shot Charlotte who in turn two shotted Vollstandig Bambietta, outsped Mayuri in Shikai and then blitzed him in Bankai, when Mayuri was able to keep up with and outpace Perninda just after that fight)

For all we know, the shinigami could've gotten far stronger during the 17 months, but there's no calcs for them or the sternritters iirc that could put them above until Gremmy stuff, and only a few people would scale to/above the Shikai Kenpachi that fought Gremmy. It's hard to quantify. I think that the post timeskip captains should get an 'At least' rather than just being straight up considered the same tier as they were before but vaguely stronger. It's almost the same thing, but 'at least' more show conveys the superiority compared to their pre timeskip selves, since it's confirmed by Renji and other characters that they were training hard to take on Aizen level threats

Though an argument someone could make for the reason why they didn't make as many jumps could be due to the lack of the life and death battles to 'zenkai boost' their souls in the 17 months of peace (besides the SAFWY for Kenpachi if the wiki considers it canon or not). But that still could rate the post timeskip characters with "At Least"

 

[Tsotso]

Toshiro went from possibly 6-B to 6-A/High 6-A in the 17 months between the FKT arc and the TYBW.

That's because he acquired a powerup. I'm talking about the boost in power he got from training or zenkai when it comes to his Shikai and Bankai. Of course he would go to a higher tier if he has a brand new form.

Keep in mind, while it wasn't outright said, it was implied that Toshiro discovered his adult form during the Bankai training that he mentioned he went through during those 17 months.

I know that. It's pretty obvious.

While we might not have seen a significant boost in his base form (I'd argue that he actually did get alot stronger, considering he was able to one shot Charlotte who in turn two shotted Vollstandig Bambietta, outsped Mayuri in Shikai and then blitzed him in Bankai, when Mayuri was able to keep up with and outpace Perninda just after that fight)

Wasn't that Bambietta a weakened zombie?
The only captains that really could scale to Shikai Kenpachi or Gremmy are PRGT Byakuya and Adult Hitsugaya, who already do on their profiles.

For all we know, the shinigami could've gotten far stronger during the 17 months, but there's no calcs for them or the sternritters iirc that could put them above until Gremmy stuff, and only a few people would scale to/above the Shikai Kenpachi that fought Gremmy. It's hard to quantify. I think that the post timeskip captains should get an 'At least' rather than just being straight up considered the same tier as they were before but vaguely stronger. It's almost the same thing, but 'at least' more show conveys the superiority compared to their pre timeskip selves, since it's confirmed by Renji and other characters that they were training hard to take on Aizen level threats

There is actually a way to scale relatively accurately how much stronger some characters got.

I think the main reason for many sternritters being Large Country level is Mask's fight with Renji. During that fight, Mask gets more than 50x stronger than Bankai Kensei (Who's rated at Country level) going off multipliers.
Even if we assume that Kensei is 7 Teratons in Bankai (the minimum requirement for being Country level), Mask gets to at the very least 350 Teratons (Large Country level) by the time he goes Vollstandig going off only multipliers. And that's not even mentioning his Star Power Up (If that's what it was called, I don't remember) which let him go from Shikai Renji casually blocking his punches to being able to push back Renji.
And since Bazz-B (who fought Bankai Renji) scales above Mask, he gets to Continental in Vollstandig. And since Askin, Haschwalth and Bambietta are considered in their profiles to be comparable to Bazz-B, they get to Large Country level in base, too.
Some lower tier Sternritter get to Large Country level too due to damaging Kenpachi, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering how weakened and beat up he already was after his fight with Gremmy. It's also inconsistent with the following:

- Byakuya after the Royal Guard training was able to defeat Candice, Robert and Nanana with his Shikai, which is strongly implied by As Nodt in chapter 569 to be close to how strong his Bankai was in the beginning of the arc.
Yet Candice is rated at Large Country level in base while Byakuya and As Nodt are rated at Country level. That just doesn't make sense.
Kyoraku is Large Country level by virtue of fighting base Lille Barro, who's the leader of Yhwach's Elite Guards and therefore should be at least comparable to Bazz-B, who's Large Country level for already stated reasons. Kyoraku was struggling against Robert, while PRGT Byakuya in Shikai defeated him and two other sternritter. And since PRGT Shikai Byakuya ≈ Initial TYBW arc Bankai Byakuya, he should be Large Country level in Bankai at the beginning of the arc due to scaling above Shikai Kyoraku. Yet Byakuya is rated at Country level while Kyoraku is Large Country level. That just doesn't make sense.

Anyways, since Byakuya got from Country to Large Country level during the timeskip, the other captains should also get boosts of comparable scale. Yet on their profile, some of them are practically identical to their Pre-Timeskip selves.

I'm considering making another revision thread for the TYBW arc scaling, but that's besides the point.

Though an argument someone could make for the reason why they didn't make as many jumps could be due to the lack of the life and death battles to 'zenkai boost' their souls in the 17 months of peace (besides the SAFWY for Kenpachi if the wiki considers it canon or not). But that still could rate the post timeskip characters with "At Least"

Take a look at Komamura's profile. He goes from Island level in Bankai during the SS arc to Country level in Bankai during the FKT arc and then to Large Country level in Bankai during the TYBW arc. Yet, what zenkai boosts does he get? I can only think of 1 during the SS arc when Aizen used Kurohitsugi on him.
The gap between Island level and Country level is at least 70 times. So are you gonna tell me that Aizen made Kamamura 70 times stronger by damaging him with a Kido and triggering a zenkai boost? That doesn't sound right.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

The way Zombie works on Quincy is different from how it works on other beings. Quincy have to be dead, and I don't remember any statements or anything in the manga or novels that stated Bambi was weaker as a Zombie, though I guess an argument could be made. I think I might remember it being said or implied that the darker skinned zombies with the full red pigment from Giselle's blood are superior to the ones with just splashes of blood, but don't quote me on that. But either way, even Bambi being at full strength wouldn't be contradicted or break scaling, since this Toshiro isn't the same as the one that fought Bazz B. That, and him in Bankai was able to last against Gerard off screen for longer than Renji, Rukia, Shinji, Momo, and the Visoreds did combined. He also has that statement of him being able to freeze Gerard down to the bone with prep/charge time after assessing his power while he was fighting no eyepatch shikai kenpachi. It's a minor thing and not too important, but Toshiro does have the feats and scaling for another 'post zombification/revival' key.

Byakuya in his shikai is weird to scale. You would think that Kyoraku would be stronger than Bankai Pre Royal Guard Byakuya for scaling to Lille. Either Byakuya was just that strong and didn't get to show it with his Bankai being stolen, or Post RG Byakuya wasn't going all out when As Nodt compared it to his old Bankai. Was Kyoraku's eye shot out when he was on guard, or was that when Yama died? That might play into it, idk. What also makes scaling between them weird is the novels. It's said that Tokinada has Reiatsu on par with Byakuya and Yoruichi. Byakuya during the TYBW is just flat out 6-A, while Yoruichi is High 6-B in base and higher in Shunko forms. Tokinada was shown to be relative to Shikai Kyoraku in terms of physicals, but with his zan abilities he was able to easily fight off everyone present besides Kenpachi and Ginjo. Some people say that backscaling from CFYOW isn't good, but in this case, Kyoraku in lore is scaling Tokinada to Byakuya and Yoruichi, and kinda scaling Yoruichi and Byakuya together, which makes Byakuya and Shunsui's case even more weird.

That aside, I actually don't know the reasoning for why alot of the characters are rated where they were. Besides ofc scaling, but you have a better idea than me. Actually, this is slightly off topic, but if Vollstandig multi's are accepted 5x, then Gerard, Byakuya and Toshiro should scale to a solid High 6-A rather than possibly. Gerard was even with or slightly stronger than Shikai Kenpachi. Kenpachi goes Bankai with his 5x amp and inflicts damage on Gerard. Gerard goes Vollstandig with his 5x amp, which would get him to High 6-A, but also has that Miracle Amp from all the damage Bankai Kenpachi inflicted as another amp to definitely put him there

 

[Tsotso]

The way Zombie works on Quincy is different from how it works on other beings. Quincy have to be dead, and I don't remember any statements or anything in the manga or novels that stated Bambi was weaker as a Zombie, though I guess an argument could be made. I think I might remember it being said or implied that the darker skinned zombies with the full red pigment from Giselle's blood are superior to the ones with just splashes of blood, but don't quote me on that.

I don't remember exactly what was stated so whatever.

But either way, even Bambi being at full strength wouldn't be contradicted or break scaling, since this Toshiro isn't the same as the one that fought Bazz B. That, and him in Bankai was able to last against Gerard off screen for longer than Renji, Rukia, Shinji, Momo, and the Visoreds did combined. He also has that statement of him being able to freeze Gerard down to the bone with prep/charge time after assessing his power while he was fighting no eyepatch shikai kenpachi. It's a minor thing and not too important, but Toshiro does have the feats and scaling for another 'post zombification/revival' key.

Perhaps.

Byakuya in his shikai is weird to scale. You would think that Kyoraku would be stronger than Bankai Pre Royal Guard Byakuya for scaling to Lille.

He only did well in Shikai against base Lille. Once Lille got into Vollstandig, Kyoraku was forced to use Bankai.
Byakuya is just stronger than Kyoraku in terms of raw power, but he would most likely lose if Kyoraku uses Bankai.

Either Byakuya was just that strong and didn't get to show it with his Bankai being stolen

Yup, you said it.

or Post RG Byakuya wasn't going all out when As Nodt compared it to his old Bankai.

That would be headcanon.

Was Kyoraku's eye shot out when he was on guard, or was that when Yama died? That might play into it, idk.

Robert shot Shunsui's eye before Yamamoto's fight with Royd even started.

What also makes scaling between them weird is the novels. It's said that Tokinada has Reiatsu on par with Byakuya and Yoruichi. Byakuya during the TYBW is just flat out 6-A, while Yoruichi is High 6-B in base and higher in Shunko forms. Tokinada was shown to be relative to Shikai Kyoraku in terms of physicals, but with his zan abilities he was able to easily fight off everyone present besides Kenpachi and Ginjo. Some people say that backscaling from CFYOW isn't good, but in this case, Kyoraku in lore is scaling Tokinada to Byakuya and Yoruichi, and kinda scaling Yoruichi and Byakuya together, which makes Byakuya and Shunsui's case even more weird.

The novel statement could have been referring to Shikai Byakuya which negates the scaling inconsistency.

That aside, I actually don't know the reasoning for why alot of the characters are rated where they were. Besides ofc scaling, but you have a better idea than me. Actually, this is slightly off topic, but if Vollstandig multi's are accepted 5x, then Gerard, Byakuya and Toshiro should scale to a solid High 6-A rather than possibly. Gerard was even with or slightly stronger than Shikai Kenpachi. Kenpachi goes Bankai with his 5x amp and inflicts damage on Gerard. Gerard goes Vollstandig with his 5x amp, which would get him to High 6-A, but also has that Miracle Amp from all the damage Bankai Kenpachi inflicted as another amp to definitely put him there

I agree. But I think this discussion has been derailed from the original proposed revisions.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Other people need to see. It's basically just been us for the past little while