Blackbeard vs King

[Eseseso]

Post-Timeskip Blackbeard vs King the Wildfire.

Location: Blackbeard's main island, starting 25m away and in-character.

King:

Blackbeard: @Eseseso

Incon:

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

I think I'm going to give this one to King. Pre-timeskip Blackbeard is far too arrogant and inexperienced with his Gura Gura no Mi and doesn't show any remarkable Haki feats. Meanwhile, King's got a significant Haki advantage and very high durability that would let him endure some of the quake bubbles if they hit him. And if Blackbeard decides to bring King in with his Yami Yami no Mi, King can always self-destruct, and it'd do even more serious damage since the Yami Yami no Mi increases incoming damage due to its nature.

 

[Eseseso]

Btw, while it's possible BB knows about the lunarian flames, since he recognized that the Seraphim were lunarians, it's unlikely that he could exploit this, since he doesn't have the speed advantage or endurance (or plot armor) that forced King to use it against Zoro.

 

[SlendVeny]

• If he is trapped by Yami Yami no Mi up close, his explosion can one-shot BB.

Jackpot gg

 

[Eseseso]

I vote King.

His AP is easily enough to match BB's, plus he has his superior Buso + his Jackpot for if he gets pulled by the Yami Yami no mi.

If he isn't pulled in, he can blitz BB with Imperial Pride Stake, which scales above his Jackpot, which is a one-shot for people who took hits from Yonko (like Zoro).

His fire is also deadlier than Ace's fire, and Omori Karyudon will end Blackbeard then and there.

 

[SlendVeny]

Honestly, I'd go for current BB over Pre-TS

 

[Eseseso]

Honestly, I'd go for current BB over Pre-TS

A yonko vs a yonko commander.

Seems fair.

But what does post-TS BB add besides higher AP and decent Buso defense (since he blocked a blow from S-Hawk, who matched Buso Zoro, who matched Buso King)?

 

[SlendVeny]

A yonko vs a yonko commander.

Seems fair.

But what does post-TS BB add besides higher AP and decent Buso defense (since he blocked a blow from S-Hawk, who matched Buso Zoro, who matched Buso King)?

Uh, higher speed maybe

 

[Eseseso]

After thinking about it, I've switched to Post-TS Blackbeard.

I still think that King likely wins for having comparable AP, BB being an arrogant ass who tends to leave himself open, King's flames (especially Omori Karyudon) being deadlier than Ace's flames (and Omori Karyudon could severely damage BB since it scales above King's self-destruction which nearly one-shot Zoro), his superior speed, the fact that BB won't hurt him without dura neg, and his explosion meaning that even if BB uses his Yami Yami to pull him close, King can just use Jackpot.

 

[Darkvie123]

Does Dura Neg work on Flame On King? If it does i see Blackbeard smashing King badly with AOE

 

[Eseseso]

Does Dura Neg work on Flame On King? If it does i see Blackbeard smashing King badly with AOE

Tbh, no idea.

Depends on whether he scales to the Seraphim

 

[That_moron2]

BB fra

 

[Eseseso]

BB fra

FRA?

 

[That_moron2]

FRA?

Dura neg AOE

 

[That_moron2]

Sorry for the necro but this match is good and I don't want it to die.

With just a no-Haki sword, is >= Blackbeard's physical AP, and has stat amps to keep up even with Gura-Gura no mi's AP.

No haki King scales to Marco.
B.B No Haki~Whitebeard No Haki>=Marco

 

[Nierre]

Interesting matchup

 

[Eseseso]

No haki King scales to Marco.
B.B No Haki~Whitebeard No Haki>=Marco

Fair, although I think a better version is BB > Marco = no Haki King.

 

[That_moron2]

Fair, although I think a better version is BB > Marco = no Haki King.

Marco~King<Buso King
Marco<Blackbeard<Gura Gura Blackbeard
So Blackbeard A.P outscales even preskip.

 

[Eseseso]

Marco~King<Buso King
Marco<Blackbeard<Gura Gura Blackbeard
So Blackbeard A.P outscales even preskip.

Marco < Post-TS BB as a whole, including his Gura Gura.

Pre-Skip BB doesn't scale to Marco, especially since the WG said Marco was one of the people who could beat Post-Gura BB.

 

[That_moron2]

Pre-Skip BB doesn't scale to Marco, especially since the WG said Marco was one of the people who could beat Post-Gura BB.

Marco AND The Whitebeard Pirates maybe.

 

[Eseseso]

Marco AND The Whitebeard Pirates maybe.

They just say Marco and the Yonko

 

[That_moron2]

They just say Marco and the Yonko

Can you tell me the chapter so I can check?

 

[Eseseso]

Can you tell me the chapter so I can check?

594

 

[Darkvie123]

They just say Marco and the Yonko

Not they dont. They say Maybe Marco and the WB Commanders.

 

[Eseseso]

Not they dont. They say Maybe Marco and the WB Commanders.

Ok you are right, but nothing says Pre-TS BB > Marco, he only got like that during the TS, at which point with the Gura Gura he surpassed Marco.

 

[That_moron2]

Ok you are right, but nothing says Pre-TS BB > Marco, he only got like that during the TS, at which point with the Gura Gura he surpassed Marco.

Blackbeard>Ace=<Marco

 

[Eseseso]

Blackbeard>Ace=<Marco

Marco should be > Ace, it's noted how he's easily one of if not the strongest WB commander.

Marco clashed with Big Mom, who is superior to pre-TS BB.

 

[Darkvie123]

Marco should be > Ace, it's noted how he's easily one of if not the strongest WB commander.

Marco clashed with Big Mom, who is superior to pre-TS BB.

Ace clashed with Oldbeard and was able to even burn him and Oldbeard > Fraud Mom pretty sure.

 

[Eseseso]

Ace clashed with Oldbeard and was able to even burn him

WB still beat him.

There's a reason Marco was the #1 commander.

and Oldbeard > Fraud Mom pretty sure.

Based on nothing.

If anything the opposite is likelier since Oldbeard had health issues.

 

[Darkvie123]

WB still beat him.

There's a reason Marco was the #1 commander.

Based on nothing.

If anything the opposite is likelier since Oldbeard had health issues.

Oldbeard ≠ Sickbeard. Im talking about Old Stabilized WB not Marineford one

 

[Darkvie123]

WB still beat him.

There's a reason Marco was the #1 commander.

WB Commanders are not ranked based of strength. WB beating Ace isnt surprising my point is that Ace performed a better feat vs a Top Tier like WB than Marco did vs BM who couldnt even touch her btw.

 

[Eseseso]

WB Commanders are not ranked based of strength. WB beating Ace isnt surprising my point is that Ace performed a better feat vs a Top Tier like WB than Marco did vs BM who couldnt even touch her btw.

WB still soundly overpowered Ace, and him burning WB was due to dura neg heat.

 

[Darkvie123]

WB still soundly overpowered Ace, and him burning WB was due to dura neg heat.

WB using his DF equates to his AP too

 

[Eseseso]

WB using his DF equates to his AP too

Fair point.

But long story short, they're comparable in AP, but even then King has AP amps (his Hybrid form stomped a Base Zoro who matched Base no Haki King, and his Buso stomped mid-fight Buso Zoro who also matched Base no Haki King), can amp his speed immensely with Zoan and/or flame-off, and if BB goes for his signature neck grab all King needs to do is use "Jackpot".

BB does have wincons, such as the Gura Gura no Mi's dura neg.

 

[That_moron2]

Fair point.

But long story short, they're comparable in AP, but even then King has AP amps (his Hybrid form stomped a Base Zoro who matched Base no Haki King, and his Buso stomped mid-fight Buso Zoro who also matched Base no Haki King), can amp his speed immensely with Zoan and/or flame-off, and if BB goes for his signature neck grab all King needs to do is use "Jackpot".

BB does have wincons, such as the Gura Gura no Mi's dura neg.

King:
Marco~Base King<Buso King~Hybrid King<Buso Hybrid King<Jackpot
Post Skip B.B:
Blackbeard<Gura Blackbeard~Awakening Law A.P~Bigger Mom>Big Mom>King<Jackpot

 

[SlendVeny]

King:
Marco~Base King<Buso King~Hybrid King<Buso Hybrid King<Jackpot
Post Skip B.B:
Blackbeard<Gura Blackbeard~Awakening Law A.P~Bigger Mom>Big Mom>King<Jackpot

Blackbeard<Gura Blackbeard~Awakening Law A.P < Bigger Mom > Big Mom > Base King< Zoan King < Jackpot < Omori Karyudon

 

[That_moron2]

Blackbeard<Gura Blackbeard~Awakening Law A.P < Bigger Mom > Big Mom

Awakening Law directly harms Bigger Mom what is the < Bigger Mom for?

Base King< Zoan King < Jackpot < Omori Karyudon

Jackpot oneshots No-Buso Zoro, OK doesn't. Big Mom is also directly comparable to Kaidou who King ackknowledges vast inferiority to.
No-Buso Zoro was the only one getting oneshot by Jackpot but No Buso Zoro only scales to Killer.
OK>Jackpot>Zoan King>King<Base Big Mom~ Base Kaidou<Bigger Mom
Basically King>Kaidou by this logic.
Actual Chain
Blackbeard<Gura Blackbeard~Awakening Law A.P~Bigger Mom>3 Homie Big Mom>2 Homie Big Mom>1 Homie Big Mom~Kaidou> AT LEAST Base King<Zoan King<Jackpot

 

[Eseseso]

Awakening Law directly harms Bigger Mom what is the < Bigger Mom for?

Jackpot oneshots No-Buso Zoro, OK doesn't.

Omori Karyudon > Pride Stake > Jackpot

Big Mom is also directly comparable to Kaidou who King ackknowledges vast inferiority to.
No-Buso Zoro was the only one getting oneshot by Jackpot but No Buso Zoro only scales to Killer.

No Buso Zoro matched Base King offscreen in 1026 and 1027

OK>Jackpot>Zoan King>King<Base Big Mom~ Base Kaidou<Bigger Mom
Basically King>Kaidou by this logic.
Actual Chain
Blackbeard<Gura Blackbeard~Awakening Law A.P~Bigger Mom>3 Homie Big Mom>2 Homie Big Mom>1 Homie Big Mom~Kaidou> AT LEAST Base King<Zoan King<Jackpot

BB wins over King in raw AP (albeit not by much), but King has Zoan and Buso to keep up.

 

[That_moron2]

Omori Karyudon > Pride Stake > Jackpot

?

No Buso Zoro matched Base King offscreen in 1026 and 1027

If it was offscreen then how do you know Zoro wasn't using Buso? It is in character for him to do so if pressed.

BB wins over King in raw AP (albeit not by much), but King has Zoan and Buso to keep up.

No as above.

 

[Eseseso]

?

Zoro blocked Jackpot, but said he couldn't block Pride Stake.

King, despite seeing Zoro survive stuff including Jackpot and Pride Stake, was confident that OK would kill him.

If it was offscreen then how do you know Zoro wasn't using Buso? It is in character for him to do so if pressed.

We see panels where Zoro's blades in 1026 and 27 have no Buso on them.