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Black Clover

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Worthless

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Lucifero should have a conceptual manipulation (type 3?) on his profile a true one and not just limited since he made Morris magic able to interfere with concepts [1] [2] the devil he is talking about is lucifero [3] [4]

And for that reason his magic can change the dream world which is nonphysical in nature, also thoughts and rules/law itself through changing it's concept or unless you all wanna say that those both are made of magic which clearly aren't.

Furthermore Morris said something that the moment his magic touch anyone they are finished since his magic can even modify a concept itself

So in conclusion: Lucifero, Morris should have a full conceptual manipulation I don't know what type... lilith and namaah should have it too since it stated that their magic can destroy concept through freezing & burning it.
 
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how is this just nonphysical when it stated thousands of times that they can affect a concept
 
Because Non-Physical Interaction allows you to affect a concept in a way, but not in a way that is considered manipulating the concept. With the feats shown above not affecting the concepts in a way considered manipulating them, it's only considered as interacting with them.

This is as much Concept Manipulation as punching a character with Type 1 Abstract Existence.
 
Morris can change concept whlle lilith and namaah were stated capable of burning and freezing concept and since lucifero magic is gravity his should be forcing every concept down and not changing or burning or freezing.
 
I'll make it clear this is just not a normal nonphysical interaction Morris magic is Modification and luci made his power able to interact with a concept thus he can freely change the concepts as he pleases.
 
I don't get your message anyway what type should be given to someone who can burn and freeze concept
 
To think I'm not surprised that you would appeared here lol

Anyway i already know the answered and no it's not just nonphysical interaction this is what the page says:
Concept Destruction: The ability to destroy or remove a concept. By using the ability concepts are removed from reality. This can be wide-spread or very targeted, either erasing the concept of an overarching fundamental principle, such as space, or an individual. When destroyed at this level, nothing can be restored without using similarly powerful conceptual creation. Conventional regeneration or resurrection, no matter how powerful, would prove impossible as the very abstract concept of the character would not exist.
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And lilith should have this since she can burn a concept with her magic lucifero as well since he could theoretically remove the concept of his target through his gravity.
Concept Alteration: The ability to manipulate, alter, or change concepts. By using this ability, concepts themselves can be changed in a variety of ways. The concept can have have an object added to it, an object taken from it, or change the current principle of the concept. If a concept is changed, the world is altered in some way to fit this new conceptual definition, though the extent of this varies by the type of concept being manipulated.
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While Morris should've this since he can modify a concept itself.
 
Worthless said:
To think I'm not surprised that you would appeared here lol

Anyway i already know the answered and no it's not just nonphysical interaction this is what the page says:

And lilith should have this since she can burn a concept with her magic lucifero as well since he could theoretically remove the concept of his target through his gravity.

While Morris should've this since he can modify a concept itself.
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Everything12 said:
Because Non-Physical Interaction allows you to affect a concept in a way, but not in a way that is considered manipulating the concept. With the feats shown above not affecting the concepts in a way considered manipulating them, it's only considered as interacting with them.

This is as much Concept Manipulation as punching a character with Type 1 Abstract Existence.
Click to expand...
 
No. She can burn concepts because that concept was given shape and form far more limited than what a concept normally has and thus she was able to interact with the abstract (non-physical) object it created.
 
Everything12 said:
No. She can burn concepts because that concept was given shape and form far more limited than what a concept normally has and thus she was able to interact with the abstract (non-physical) object it created.
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That doesn't matter the page say changing or destroying a concept or the individual concept is enough to give someone that rating and those characters can even harm their target concept as stated here i don't know why there is still some disagreement when the feat is literally there. Reid have CM 3 for destroying a concept of sound while Satou for creating a conceptual fire... so i don't get why they can't when their conceptual feat is more impressive.
 
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I also posted the scan of him destroying the dream world which is nonphysical in nature I did not add it cause it's magic people might think again that it is only limited on magic if i did not show of him manipulating a concept that is not magic first.
 
They are not real concepts, it is even said "intangible concepts". This just shows that he has extremely good non-physical interaction, but not that Lucifero can manipulate real concepts

Every concept is "intangible", since it is basically an idea. The statement makes no sense for manipulation
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
They are not real concepts, it is even said "intangible concepts". This just shows that he has extremely good non-physical interaction, but not that Lucifero can manipulate real concepts

Every concept is "intangible", since it is basically an idea. The statement makes no sense for manipulation
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Also it's just shows Moris had large amount of magic power to overwhelm Dorothy Dream world. It doesn't even looks like any Conceptual manipulation.

I am even confused after seeing Lilith and namaha whatever those devils scans. It just states overwhelm shadow magic with large amount of fire and ice magic. Yeah there is a statement of concept but does that automatically gives Conceptual manipulation? Isn't overwhelming ones power with another power just normal abilities?
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Also it's just shows Moris had large amount of magic power to overwhelm Dorothy Dream world. It doesn't even looks like any Conceptual manipulation.

I am even confused after seeing Lilith and namaha whatever those devils scans. It just states overwhelm shadow magic with large amount of fire and ice magic. Yeah there is a statement of concept but does that automatically gives Conceptual manipulation? Isn't overwhelming ones power with another power just normal abilities?
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he didn't overwhelm dream world he destroyed it, also nowhere in Lilith or naamnah scans it says overwhelm it says that they're ice and fire magic can freeze anything and burn everything including concepts
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
I mean invisible concept doesn't inheritedly means real concepts. Because his abilities were shadow magic not real shadow or light magic.

By this logic anyone who manipulate shadow magic should conceptual manipulation.
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intangible concept meaning it does not physically exist. And his ultimate magic was him creating a room made out of the very concept of darkness
 
It shows these people didn't read the all scans properly 🤦 and please can y'all define what real concept is? 🥴
 
Bump

The opposing argument is so stupid please if you dislike BC don't even comment just ignore y'all argument is so lame y'all denying the irrefutable truth
 
Blame the viz translation the Japanese version nor the fan translation doesn't say anything about intangible nor invisible try again. Gosh the intent was so obvious.

But to think someone would actually use the intangible and invisible statement as an argument lmfao this is just beyond sad
 
Still here? lol just leave and yes nonphysical interaction & conceptual manipulation since morris, luci, lilith, and namaah can change, bend/warp, freeze and burn concept and even the concept of their target. Yes.
 
When the word concept is used it doesn't automatically grant someone the ability to manipulate them. A concept would mean something that's the idea of anything else, like, burning the concept of illness: basically it'd mean that people couldn't get sick because the idea of said subject was burned away. But to get said ability someone might actually be able to alter the way the idea of something no matter the ability you got.

Non-Physical Interaction means something else than affecting Intangible beings, Higher Dimensional, Incorporeal or Non-Existent ones, like with one's magic you could affect the way, for example, you can "burn" the colors your opponent can see.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
I mean, only 17 minutes have passed

Some people have already commented here and the staff don't seem to agree with it, so whatever.
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Only one staff but now thinking about it i don't really blame him my first explanation regarding to this feat looks like it's just a normal concept interaction that lead him to believe that it's just nonphysical interaction
 
BleedingPeach said:
When the word concept is used it doesn't automatically grant someone the ability to manipulate them. A concept would mean something that's the idea of anything else, like, burning the concept of illness: basically it'd mean that people couldn't get sick because the idea of said subject was burned away. But to get said ability someone might actually be able to alter the way the idea of something no matter the ability you got.
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Yes they can do that they can burn, freeze, warp/bend, and change the idea of something i think they qualify for CM 3

Also for that guy who said disagree haha that doesn't counted their argument is so lane
 
If changing, burning, freezing and bending/warping concept is not conceptual manipulation to you just ignore this thread
 
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