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Which also is not by any means conceptual manipulation, it needs to be stated outright to be erasing the concepts of light, life, and death.
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Black Clover
- Thread starter Worthless
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why are people in this of not being able to "see" concept manipulation we are literally talking about concepts, concept manipulation feats don't exist, I guarantee you that in this entire wiki there is not a character with a concept manipulation "feat", regardless of context or details it is literally impossible that there is such a thing as a "feat" of concept manipulation. What exists is a statement about concepts and that's it.
literally every instance of concept manipulation on this wiki can be considered something else, this is not a counter-argument.
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removing life, and death from a specific area isn't concept manip? and yeah we have on PANEL description of Lilith and naamnah destroying concepts
the only "concepts" mentioned before Lilith and naamnah escaped where life and death which they froze/destroyed
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it's funny because 2 of the characters mentioned in this thread already have limited concept manipulation for the same reasoning and scans that's being argued for lucifero
Naamah (Black Clover)
Naamah (ナハマー, Nahamā?) is a supporting antagonist in the Spade Kingdom Raid Arc of Black Clover. He is one of the Supreme Devils connected to the Tree of Qliphoth and resides on the first level of the Underworld, alongside his twin, Lilith. Tier: High 6-A | High 6-A Key: Naamah | Fused with...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Lilith (Black Clover)
Lilith (リリス, Ririsu?) is a supporting antagonist in the Spade Kingdom Raid Arc of Black Clover. She is one of the Supreme Devils connected to the Tree of Qliphoth and resides on the first level of the Underworld, alongside her twin, Naamah. Tier: High 6-A | High 6-A Key: Lilith | Fused with...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Looks like NPI, doesn't seem like conceptual manip
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I shouldn't even need to get into how wrong your """""""""counterargument"""""""""" is, cause I can name characters off the top of my ****** head who make, manipulate, and destroy concepts at will
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I hate when people say this. All cause others have it doesn't mean that it's right.
Concept Manipulation is, in definition
And they go in-depth with "manipulate"
Nothing follows this at all.
Touching a concept doesn't give you conceptual manipulation, just like how touching a soul doesn't give you soul manipulation.
Confused why this was even reopened. It's not conceptual manip
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please name and post the feats, concept manipulation is just a statement of such being assigned to a situation, there are no concept manipulation "feats" just the same being assigned to an existing situation.
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I suggest you read this page
Conceptual Manipulation
Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat-applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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nothing is being touched but conceptually burned and conceptually frozen.
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Jesus Christ, this Scan has been posted at least 20 times in this thread
Damn, everybody already understands
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Yes, posting the same scan 9999999999999 times doesn't make a mind change lol
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So you're not going to read the damn link I sent
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Because you are interacting with something non-physical (Concept), but not manipulating it
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no
concept destruction grants you concept manip literally inside the own definition
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manipulate,create or DESTROY. tempest is excluding that part of the definition for some reason but that's literally what's stated to happen
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yes, I give up on this thread. nothing changes
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Concept Destruction: The ability to destroy or remove a concept. By using the ability concepts are removed from reality. This can be wide-spread or very targeted, either erasing the concept of an overarching fundamental principle, such as space, or an individual.
naamah and lilith have LIMITED concept manipulation because they were able to destroy a concept in a limited space. the concept in question being shadows
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I wouldn't need to send it so many times if the scan wasn't misinterpreted or straight up ignored so many times.
the definition of Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat applicable to incredibly dominating.
the definition of Concept Destruction: The ability to destroy or remove a concept. By using the ability concepts are removed from reality. This can be wide-spread or very targeted, either erasing the concept of an overarching fundamental principle, such as space, or an individual.
at the very least Morris and Lilith/naamah would qualify for Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon
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Concept destruction like this is in fact Conceptual Manipulation (in this case, it'd be Type 3), I really don't see how this is just Non-Physical Interaction.
Also, Lucifero shouldn't get this. Morris doing this was only a result of his own magic being amplified by Lucifero's power, not necessarily because Lucifero himself can do this. This would just fall under Power Bestowal, which Lucifero already has.
Also, Lucifero shouldn't get this. Morris doing this was only a result of his own magic being amplified by Lucifero's power, not necessarily because Lucifero himself can do this. This would just fall under Power Bestowal, which Lucifero already has.
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so just to be clear you do agree that this is concept manip but it only applies to Morris/Lilith/naamnah but not lucifero correct?
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What I'll say here is I think the thing with Lilith and Namah is pretty clear-cut Conceptual Destruction and NPI. Nacht distinguishes between them destroying light and shadows (which aren't concepts) and just concepts. So I think the pair of them deserve those two awarded to them. With Morris it's conceptual Modification. The story is pretty direct with these statements so it looks fine to me.
With all that said, limited Conceptual Manipulation with the fitting types for each character seems the way to go here.
To respond to this bit, what happens with Vanessa when she faces an opponent far more powerful than her isn't that they can directly shut down her power, it's just that due to how powerful their attacks are or how long they last her magic gets drained really quickly. I don't think in the case of BC that they're only able to mess with magically created concepts but concepts in general.
With all that said, limited Conceptual Manipulation with the fitting types for each character seems the way to go here.
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i guess that works
PrinceofPein
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Destroying universal concepts
Burning and freezing are universal concepts
Destroying such concepts would mean there will be no such thing as burning and freezing anymore all over the world
I don’t get how what was shown will be CM
The Lilith and naaman own well I can agree to limited CM as they created a space without concept of light, darkness and death but that can as well be something unique to just that space I guess
Burning and freezing are universal concepts
Destroying such concepts would mean there will be no such thing as burning and freezing anymore all over the world
I don’t get how what was shown will be CM
The Lilith and naaman own well I can agree to limited CM as they created a space without concept of light, darkness and death but that can as well be something unique to just that space I guess
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What you're arguing for is a matter of range not of what the ability is. You don't have to affect a universal concept or create one to have conceptual manipulation. You just need to either be shown or stated to in some form or shape mess with concepts.
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Yes, I agree with this
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There isn't much to apply, as Morris doesn't have a profile, Lucifero was agreed to not get Conceptual Manipulation, and Lilith and Naamah already have limited Conceptual Manipulation.
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That should be fine.
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