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Black Clover: What do you mean the scale is changing?

DemonGodMitchAubin

He/Him
VS Battles
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Well I certainly did not think I would be making this CRT, but someone that will remain unnamed brought to attention some valid scaling changes that needed to be made, I went through a lot of the information, even reread a lot of Black Clover's fights and talked to my Online BFF to triple check this stuff cause I didn't want to be clowned on for not knowing the scaling or anything, also I didn't want people to hate me for potentially changing the scaling a bit

So what is this change? Lumiere does not directly scale to Demon Licht's 62.88 Teratons Country nuking attack. Now he does scale to it partially as I will explain later, but let me get into the main reasons why Lumiere does not directly scale to Demon Licht.

In their fight, Lumiere at no point manages to injure or hurt Demon Licht (Read all of Chapter 205 to see the full fight). We don't see any on-screen instance where Demon Licht is damaged by Lumiere's attacks, and we don't see any lasting or lingering injures that could have been inflicted on Demon Licht off screen, so this means the only time Lumiere managed to hurt Demon Licht is when Licht intentionally left himself defenseless and allowed himself to be killed by Lumiere. This means that Lumiere has no direct feat that confirms he scales to Demon Licht's Durability. Ok, let's get into another issue, Demon Licht clearly greatly injured and messed up Lumiere using his regular attacks and when he began to charge his ultimate final attack that would have nuked the clover kingdom, Lumiere is very scared and not confident he could stop the blast. Some say this is only in reference to AOE and not being able to protect civilians, but the implication is tha this attack is too much for Lumiere, so it supports that Lumiere does not directly scale to it.

Let's get into the more solid shit, we know that Lumiere and Regular Licht are stated to be equals in terms of magic and abilities. We also see them directly shown as equals in their battle with Zagred. Lumiere and Licht (Licht was also Incomplete for the first few feats and overall only had one sword the entire fight BTW) both hurt and block attacks from Zagred, fighting basically on par with him. Zagred also manages to hurt Lumiere, so these guys all scale comparable to each other. Now here's the thing, we directly know that Licht took in a tremendous amount of negative Mana into his own body before becoming a Demon, this is directly telling us that Licht is being amped and has far greater Mana than normal when he is entering his Demon form. So if Lumiere and Licht are equals when Licht is in his normal state, and Demon Licht is explicitly a Licht that has added a massive amount of Negative Mana to his already normal reserves of Mana, then it's blatantly true that Demon Licht is stronger than Lumiere. At the very least, Demon Licht is very clearly above the Incomplete One Sword version of himself that was already relative to Zagred's regular level spells. So this also supports why Lumiere does not directly scale to Demon Licht's full power.

Ok, so now that I have established all of that, what do I believe they should scale to? Now this is actually fairly simple and straightforward based on what I believe. We know that Demon Licht's ultimate final blast has all four of his hands combine their magic into a huge ball of energy. It's explicitly shown that all four of his hands must come together to make this attack. Now what are Lumiere's best feats in this fight? Lumiere directly clashes evenly with and easily blocks the blasts of energy from one of Demon Licht's hands twice. So if all four hands combining energy togther is what forms the country destroying blast and Lumiere is able to easily block and clash with the energy from one of the hands that forms this blast, then he should at the very least be scaling to 1/4th of the feat itself.

Therefore I propose that it be noted that Demon Licht's 1 hand blasts are 1/4 as strong as the country nuke on his profile, and this would directly scale to Lumiere, Demon Licht, Zagred, etc. So all of these characters end up becoming 15.72 Teratons (Country level). Now I know this would effect basically everything, but the point is that I believe this is the scale that would make the most sense. Lumiere still ends up scaling partially to the feat, supporting how he still somewhat relative to Demon Licht in their fight, and yet the narrative that he is weaker than Demon Licht is still preserved
 
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I already had this thought, however, I think dividing the value by 4 is a lazy solution ngl. It is a special attack, but all that is required is simply to use all four hands at the same time?
 
I already had this thought, however, I think dividing the value by 4 is a lazy solution ngl. It is a special attack, but all that is required is simply to use all four hands at the same time?
It's not a lazy solution, it's a logical one

If the four hands combining energy is a country nuking attack

And Lumiere directly matches the energy from one of those hands, then logically he is matching energy equivalent to 1/4 of that country nuking attack
 
I already had this thought, however, I think dividing the value by 4 is a lazy solution ngl. It is a special attack, but all that is required is simply to use all four hands at the same time?
Looks to just mainly be a compromise tbh
 
Just a question, Demon Litch doesn't have any named attacks, right? These beams are his normal attacks and the large one is just him using energy of his four hands, right?
 
My point is, if this large beam is a named attack or a character points out that this is some kind of special attack, then i can't really agree.
 
I have some issues but don't have time to put everything in order and link scans. I'll go bit by bit

Lumière not damaging Demon Licht just because he has no injuries makes sense at first glance, but when you notice every other instance where and Ancient Demon is hit by something that should significantly hurt them (each of Mereoleona's attacks except the final blow for instance), you see that they don't have any injuries. Heck, even the wound done by Julius is drawn once or maybe twice at best.

There's also Zagred's statement "If I had taken that body (licht) over, Light Magic wouldn't have worked on me at all", which implies that Lumière's attacks did damage Demon Licht.
 
I have some issues but don't have time to put everything in order and link scans. I'll go bit by bit

Lumière not damaging Demon Licht just because he has no injuries makes sense at first glance, but when you notice every other instance where and Ancient Demon is hit by something that should significantly hurt them (each of Mereoleona's attacks except the final blow for instance), you see that they don't have any injuries. Heck, even the wound done by Julius is drawn once or maybe twice at best.

There's also Zagred's statement "If I had taken that body (licht) over, Light Magic wouldn't have worked on me at all", which implies that Lumière's attacks did damage Demon Licht.
This is interesting.
 
I have some issues but don't have time to put everything in order and link scans. I'll go bit by bit

Lumière not damaging Demon Licht just because he has no injuries makes sense at first glance, but when you notice every other instance where and Ancient Demon is hit by something that should significantly hurt them (each of Mereoleona's attacks except the final blow for instance), you see that they don't have any injuries. Heck, even the wound done by Julius is drawn once or maybe twice at best.

There's also Zagred's statement "If I had taken that body (licht) over, Light Magic wouldn't have worked on me at all", which implies that Lumière's attacks did damage Demon Licht.
This doesn't really prove anything to me, just because he consistently doesn't show injuries for other Ancient Demons, doesn't mean that Demon Licht did sustain injuries from Lumiere. Also that statement about how Light Magic doesn't work seems conflicted between translations, I'll try to get the translations for the raws of that, but even if the translation from Viz is legit, Light Magic "working" on Demon Licht could simply refer to the fact that Lumiere is holding back Demon Licht from destroying everything, he could simply mean that Lumiere is keeping Demon Licht's attacks at bay, not that he would explicitly injure him, but that's just one small piece of the scaling contention

My main point of contention tho is how Regular Licht is Lumiere's equal and then Licht absorbs a bunch of negative mana on top of that

So Lumiere can't be equal to Regular Licht and then also equal to a Demon Licht that gained a bunch more power
 
Doesn't say he absorbed the entirety of the yield, especially when it's said that he couldn't even absorb the entire thing

Just means that he absorbed enough to affect his magic, not that he absorbed anything relevant
It was the Magic Item that couldn't absorb the entire thing, so this statement is inaccurate
 
Well yeah, it's impossible for the magic item to absorb it...
He never said this, he said it's impossible for it to be absorbed in general, and he specifically noted that it's impossible to absorb all of it
as evidenced by the fact that it broke
But if the magic item is the method of him absorbing it, then how would he have retained the entirety of the power of the attack when the tool used to absorb it broke before it absorbed all of it
 
He never said this, he said it's impossible for it to be absorbed in general, and he specifically noted that it's impossible to absorb all of it

But if the magic item is the method of him absorbing it, then how would he have retained the entirety of the power of the attack when the tool used to absorb it broke before it absorbed all of it
Because he was trying to absorb it with the item...

You're creating a level of scrutiny that's pretty much entirely unnecessary. It's arguing semantics at this point
 
Because he was trying to absorb it with the item...

You're creating a level of scrutiny that's pretty much entirely unnecessary. It's arguing semantics at this point
That's not scrutiny at all

Lumiere has no ability and no method to absorb power whatsoever

He attempted to absorb the entirety of the power with the magic tool
The magic tool broke before it could absorb all of it
The same magic tool used to transfer magic from one to another

If he absorbed the attack, and he used the magic tool to absorb all of it, and it couldn't absorb all of it, then he didn't absorb all of it

That's not scrutiny, it's common sense. You can't say he absorbed all of it when he said that his method to absorb all of it couldn't absorb all of it
 
Here's what happened

Demon Licht is preparing his big attack

Lumiere doesn't know if he can block it

Secre brings the Magic Stone and suggest absorbing the Magic

Lumiere attempts to absorb the Magic and the Magic Stone breaks because it's too much Magic

So Lumiere took in a bit of the Magic, but failed to absorb all of it and the Magic Stone literally broke in an attempt to absorb all of the Magic. So far I still haven't heard any concrete reasons as to why Lumiere would still scale fully to Demon Licht... At best, Stone Lumiere gained an unquantifiable amp of Magic Power
 
That's not scrutiny at all

Lumiere has no ability and no method to absorb power whatsoever

He attempted to absorb the entirety of the power with the magic tool
The magic tool broke before it could absorb all of it
The same magic tool used to transfer magic from one to another

If he absorbed the attack, and he used the magic tool to absorb all of it, and it couldn't absorb all of it, then he didn't absorb all of it

That's not scrutiny, it's common sense. You can't say he absorbed all of it when he said that his method to absorb all of it couldn't absorb all of it
You know I hate it when you're right

I guess so yeah... Further supporting this would be the anime version of this scene, where when Zagred mentions Lumiere absorbing the magic, it shows a flashback of him using the magic item rather than anything else
 
You know I hate it when you're right
Mald
I guess so yeah... Further supporting this would be the anime version of this scene, where when Zagred mentions Lumiere absorbing the magic, it shows a flashback of him using the magic item rather than anything else
Ain't no way you disagreed with me and had proof that would help my case
 
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